New caravan problems. The Project Channel 10.

Hylda&Jon · Guru

New caravan problems. The Project Channel 10.

Hey Jim · Guru

Hi just watched the clip.

The Federal government needs to step in.

Or The Caravan / RV Owners of Australia need to do what the Trucking industry did many years back to get a fair go with rolling convoys in capitol cities on Motor Ways in Peak Hours to get the message to Government to act.

The government will never get off their Ass.

Nothing will ever happen, Till it happens, and a Bill gets pasted.

All the BS that goes on. The GST alone that the Government rakes in $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ year in year out. We are talking 500 million dollars plus in GST alone.

They will let it roll on till, we as one Make a stand for change.

As a Jayco owner, I will put my hand up.

Jim

-- Edited by Hey Jim on Friday 1st of September 2017 10:32:40 PM

Aussie · Senior Member

Sorry, I just replayed that 3 times and could not detect a single bit of tears on that guys face. I'm not saying he made it up, I am just a very observant person. Does anybody know how many caravans are registered in Aust? It might turn out that only 1% or 2% are really bad and cars maybe worse, who knows? OK I have a pillow on my shoulders, let er rip.

Eaglemax · Guru

Very sad to see the pain on that mans face. Ive built my own small van and its not rocket science just have to do good workmanship/components which should be up to standard by manufacturers. Yep, the industry needs tight regulation meaning more laws/inspections/cost. How do shonky builders do this to people? And why does it take convoys to tell them to do their job? Rant over :(

Eaglemax · Guru

The man was distressed and likely he held back the tears Aussie. Suicide is a huge issue in men.

blaze · Guru

First question I always ask is why tow it out of the dealers yard for a start. If you don't have the knowledge to check it, get someone that does. Also 2 sides to every story. I do feel sympathy for people caught, the same symthathy that I feel for somebody losing an uninsured house in flood or fire. There are steps to take to mitigate risk
cheers
blaze

Dougwe · Chief one feather

I agree, not good at all. However, I often wonder what took place and said and how said when the first fault was noticed, in these cases???

It brings back memories of when I first got my aluminium TeePee. I picked up it up all excited and ventured to Greens Lake north central VIC to test all the 'off the grid' stuff. I was there only a few days when we were hit by a really bad storm and heavy rain and I mean heavy. Yep, bad leek in roof. A few other things had already been noticed that needed sorting out or replaced so I rang the dealer and had a very 'friendly' and calm chat expaining all the tings wrong. I also explained my location and I wasn't moving, nicely. After the dealer contacted the builder, the builder rang me and nicely, I stood my ground. It was decided the builder would come to Greens Lake from Melbourne and fix everything for me. He and his wife turned up as agreed along with the dealer. Everything was fixed or replaced without argument and they left happy, as I was. I am not making this up as many witnesses from this forum were there as well.

I left Greens and went back to the dealer to get the van's first service etc then visited friends for a couple of weeks. I headed to the NSW south coast via the M1 to discover on my arrival the brakes on the van were faulty. I had no idea or felt anything wrong all the time, the Colorado was actually doing all the stopping for me. Again I contacted the Dealer and after he and the repairer on the coast had a disagreement, I got on the phone and settled things to the point all was fixed. I had to pay as the reparier wouldn't accept payment from the dealer but the dealer put ALL money, $1000 in my bank for me the same day. Oh! I had heard the person that serviced my van wasn't there a couple of weeks later.

I had excellent after sales service at all times that would be second to none really. Maybe I was just lucky.

There are some dodgy caravan builders out there and I hope one day VERY SOON they will all be held accountable.

I sure hope the couple in the video get things sorted and soon.

Keep Safe on the roads and out there.

Possum3 · Guru

@ Aussie and Blaze; I am totally enamoured at your depth of understanding for the issue/s discussed. When the unfortunate victims of rogues are either committing suicide or threatening it, it hurts your soul with a pain un-describable.
To discuss one's innermost feelings on the subject, it is nigh impossible not to become emotional, particularly when the victims are not being assisted by the Laws created for their protection.
The Draft amendments to the Australian Consumer Law have been accepted and now only require to be passed and signed off into Law - It is the beginning of the end for rogue manufacturers and dealers.

Blues Man · Guru

The makers of that caravan should be held accountable ,WITH A BIG STICK.How dare they do crap like this and think they can get away with it. disbelief

Very quick to take the money but very slow to fix things .A bit like the government really.

Woody n Sue · Guru

Aussie wrote:
Sorry, I just replayed that 3 times and could not detect a single bit of tears on that guys face. I'm not saying he made it up, I am just a very observant person. Does anybody know how many caravans are registered in Aust? It might turn out that only 1% or 2% are really bad and cars maybe worse, who knows? OK I have a pillow on my shoulders, let er rip.

Aussie you say you watched the clip three times and claim to be a very observant person and then ask " Does anyone know how many caravans are register in Australia " hmmmmm very observant maybe but you must be deaf as a post, as at about the 11 second mark the reporter says there are over half a million caravans in Australia .

now I'm not usually a grumpy old bloke, BUT, your complete lack of compassion for these people is rather disturbing to me, these people have probably put their life savings in to this retirement venture to see this great land we call home , only to be ripped off by scumbags no better than common thieves and fly buy night repairers that ripoff elderly home owners.

Depression is a major taker of life these days and this is just the sort of thing to trigger that outcome in some people .

may your chicken turn into emu's and kick your s..t house in .

shame shame shame

Woody

villatranquilla · Guru

I feel for those people who's dreams have turned to nightmares and makes me feel very lucky that we have not had similar experiences with the variety of caravans we have owned.
But was disturbed by the 3 accidents that were shown as Colin spoke about design faults in vans - were the shown accidents as a result of design faults or just sensationalist reporting?
And I'm sure not all 14000 members of the 'Lemon Caravans' group have problems with their vans. Some, like me, probably joined out of curiosity.
Yes of course there are shonky manufacturers and dealers. Being part of any caravan forum is an invaluable 'tool' for helping to sort out problems and getting support when needed.

macka17 · Guru

When you boil it down.
All a caravan is. Is a box trailer. elongated with some cupboards and a bed fitted inside.

If you find a builder with some proper "Cabinet Makers. Carpenters",
NOT just local "chippie's" on his staff.
That uses decent quality materials. You'll get a good one.
I can think of a couple.

One bloke down by the crossing here. Buys in Bare, Truck Horse floats or bins.
Then fits out the interiors to suit.
Those boxes are built "strong" for horses leaning and kicking.

His are fit for a "almost" king. Quality right through. YOUR choice of layout
in that area.
He, and his Bro, are Cabinet makers.
They Do them on the side.

The trouble is. Van MFG's are mostly after dollars. So it's.
Stacks of timber in. Wooden boxes out. with little regard for the final product.

At least Jayco have the decency to have a proper After sales service.
I'll give them their due there.

They KNOW theirs have a lot of problems off the line. Minimal Q.C.

If MFG's didn't put all the fancy crap for females in there. Just concentrate on a well built "CARAVAN".
We'd get a LOT more for our money.

Look at the older Phoenix. Trackmaster. Bushtrackers.
Basic Boxes. Best quality. Well built.
You never see many bad reports on them.
The Bushtrackers would be the original Hardwood wooden box with Absolutely NILL style. Bare as.
But built like brick outhouses.

Lighter versions of them for the average vanner.
Would be soooo much betterer.

Roadstar. Compass. Regal, and a few others.
Very comfortable, HOMELY interiors. Well built. They the lighter versions.

I can't comment on last 10\12 yrs of vans.

Our "smooth" roads are not liked much by these lightweight Imported vans.
Specially if you look on the forums and reviews on them.

If people all got together.
Made a list of the better quality caravan mfg's. Published it in van magazines and on Teev.
Then future buyers stuck to those brands.
The shonky's would disappear.

50 odd yrs in vanning. Never had a bad one. as I stuck to a reputable builder.
Swift in UK in the '60's. Roadstar and Compass here. Latest an older '99. Coromal.
I paid a little extra. and got virtually guaranteed satisfaction.

Instead of whinging.
We NEED to educate new buyers. on the good and the bad in MFG's.

Alternatively. OR as well as.
If the AGREEING MFG's got together. and had a\Several. inspectors.
Paid by them all.
To inspect every van off every line of the company's that participate.
Before it was labelled for the market.

Vans would be 95+%. and nobody much would buy the others.
Who would then. Either lift their game.
or quietly disappear.

just a thort.

Back in box and off to Markets for Di.

-- Edited by macka17 on Saturday 2nd of September 2017 10:23:11 AM

Bryan · Guru

blaze wrote:
First question I always ask is why tow it out of the dealers yard for a start. If you don't have the knowledge to check it, get someone that does. Also 2 sides to every story. I do feel sympathy for people caught, the same symthathy that I feel for somebody losing an uninsured house in flood or fire. There are steps to take to mitigate risk
cheers
blaze

I agree.

But its a lot easier to blame the Govt or anybody else for that matter.

Rarely do we hear someone say, its my fault, my mistake, I should have delved further into it before committing. Its time we learn to accept that we alone are responsible for our decisions. That is why I applaud all the people who ask questions regarding product, services etc on this forum before making a decision.

I must qualify that my response is a generalisation based on what is written on this thread. I have not watched the clip as I dont watch The Project ever, for my own reasons

-- Edited by Bryan on Saturday 2nd of September 2017 10:26:59 AM

Knightrider · Senior Member

Why is this a Government issue? Why do they need to step in? It always amazes me & this forum is no different, but we read the eternal complainers about "big brother" & "government sticking their nose into matters" and as soon as something doesn't go your way, then "what is the Government doing". Personal responsibility is what is lacking in society today. I agree, there is usually 3 sides to a story & one of them involves the truth.

jules47 · The Happy Helper

Not only caravans - some motorhome manufacturers are just as negligent. Friend has had her MH for a while, but it wasn't used for about 18 months due to ill health.

She has had the diesel heater emit carbon monoxide fumes into the MH while sleeping, thank heaven for her cat waking her up, she was sick for days. She was manually pulling her step out, got underneath, there was a motor attached, but never connected. Her battery was 100AH, and she had an 80w of solar on the roof.
She had specifically asked that the solar and battery were sufficient for her to live off the grid - what she had would not run her for a day. The insulation is pretty well non existent in the roof area, there has been no thought put into the living areas, the stove is miniscule, and many, many other things. Apart from the diesel heater, no safety issues (yet) - but of course, out of warranty, and the mfr won't come to the party.

macka17 · Guru

Probably Same reason as I Brian.

One certain person and his Agenda.

Bryan · Guru

macka17 wrote:
Probably Same reason as I Brian.

One certain person and his Agenda.

Hit the nail on the head.

dirvine · Senior Member

There is a face book page on lemon caravans. As I have posted before, some of the pictures of poor work is very disturbing. I guess until you have been "stung" by a dealer/manufacturer, and you are probably just so excited to get your new "toy," you dont worry about some "issues", thinking that, like a car, they will be fixed under warranty or at the 1st service. Some could say you should do due diligence and read widely before you put down your hard earned. Most people do when they buy cars by reading car reviews, car club reports etc. Its just that other than the facebook page there is not many other avenues. For example some say look at product review on the internet. But I have seen 1st hand that when people start to complain, almost immediately there are a plethora of positive reviews to negate the poor ratings. I wonder who does that? Watching WDU or reading caravan mags is also not much use as they have to look after sponsors, so reviews are really just advertorials. Other than talking to owners how else do you find out? If you dont have a van then you probably dont stay in caravan parks.

And like Bryan and Macka, I dont watch the Project, or the Offsiders for the same reason. Only point was they were not on last night!!

Hey Jim · Guru

blaze wrote:
First question I always ask is why tow it out of the dealers yard for a start. If you don't have the knowledge to check it, get someone that does. Also 2 sides to every story. I do feel sympathy for people caught, the same symthathy that I feel for somebody losing an uninsured house in flood or fire. There are steps to take to mitigate risk
cheers
blaze

Hi Robert,

Is It ok to address your self buy your first name. I'm Jim by the way. Nice to meet you.

I visited the Sydney Caravan RV camping show 2 years in a row 2014 & 2015 before committing to our van.

My first and only camper trailer was a 2002 Kimberly Camper Limited Edition with all the bells and whistles Cost drive away $27,000. A great unit that took us every where we wanted into the unknown. Loved it to bits and looked after it very well. Lost $3000 over 13 years of fun.

Sold for $24,000

It had full off road independent suspenion.

My wife became ill in 2014 and it was time to move on to a van with shower and toilet.

At the show the Jayco stand had the J Tect independent suspension on a tandem frame on a stand, that I kept coming back to.

That's where I started. The Van was second part.

Put together I had put it all together to make the Jayco Journey Outback 17.55-3. Very Happy we both were.

We could continue our dreams into retirement last year May 2016.

Sydney dealership = 1 only = 5 million plus folks all to themselves. Not a bad market to have Ehhhhh.

They hand over 4-5 vans/ RV's per day. You don't get to climb over the lot in 2hours of handover including the paper work.

Only when you get it home and climb on your garage creaper and start looking at it in full both inside and out with 25W led lamps do you start to find the cheap and nasty workmanship.

The J Tect system is supplied by Al-co, and is a spot on first class bit of gear. 5 out of 5.love it.

Its what is placed on top that, stuffs what I consider IMO was great value for money at the time.

We have spent $50,000 of our savings to put this together. Its about middle of the crop for what we got.

The hours and my Knowledge put into, to put it right plus the extra $$$. Is now fit for its intended use.

I feel SO Sorry for the 80% of retirees who cannot do the same as I have had to do for myself. To make it right.

That % see a shinny new set of happy days ahead in 2hours. For most, its a whole new world.

Only when they feel there way, do things start to turn UGLY.

Jim

RustyD · Guru

I was involved with Ford when the press crucified Ford for quality on the Capri & Louisville in the 1990s. Eventually Jac Nasser (then President of Ford Australia) refused to talk to the media unless the interview was live. The press was cutting & pasting questions and answers. And many of the issues were fictitious and created by the press. If you ever see an interview where the interviewer and the interviewee are not in picture talking at the same time, the interview in probably fake. When the camera is on the interviewer whilst he/she is asking the question and then the camera flicks to the interviewee for the answer, be suspicious. I haven't seen this Project item, but I'd be interested to see how it is handled in the light of what I was involved with.

Papou · Senior Member

Hey Jim wrote:
blaze wrote:
First question I always ask is why tow it out of the dealers yard for a start. If you don't have the knowledge to check it, get someone that does. Also 2 sides to every story. I do feel sympathy for people caught, the same symthathy that I feel for somebody losing an uninsured house in flood or fire. There are steps to take to mitigate risk
cheers
blaze
Hi Robert,
Is It ok to address your self buy your first name. I'm Jim by the way. Nice to meet you.
I visited the Sydney Caravan RV camping show 2 years in a row 2014 & 2015 before committing to our van.
My first and only camper trailer was a 2002 Kimberly Camper Limited Edition with all the bells and whistles Cost drive away $27,000. A great unit that took us every where we wanted into the unknown. Loved it to bits and looked after it very well. Lost $3000 over 13 years of fun.
Sold for $24,000
It had full off road independent suspenion.
My wife became ill in 2014 and it was time to move on to a van with shower and toilet.
At the show the Jayco stand had the J Tect independent suspension on a tandem frame on a stand, that I kept coming back to.
That's where I started. The Van was second part.
Put together I had put it all together to make the Jayco Journey Outback 17.55-3. Very Happy we both were.
We could continue our dreams into retirement last year May 2016.
Sydney dealership = 1 only = 5 million plus folks all to themselves. Not a bad market to have Ehhhhh.
They hand over 4-5 vans/ RV's per day. You don't get to climb over the lot in 2hours of handover including the paper work.
Only when you get it home and climb on your garage creaper and start looking at it in full both inside and out with 25W led lamps do you start to find the cheap and nasty workmanship.
The J Tect system is supplied by Al-co, and is a spot on first class bit of gear. 5 out of 5.love it.
Its what is placed on top that, stuffs what I consider IMO was great value for money at the time.
We have spent $50,000 of our savings to put this together. Its about middle of the crop for what we got.
The hours and my Knowledge put into, to put it right plus the extra $$$. Is now fit for its intended use.
I feel SO Sorry for the 80% of retirees who cannot do the same as I have had to do for myself. To make it right.
That % see a shinny new set of happy days ahead in 2hours. For most, its a whole new world.
Only when they feel there way, do things start to turn UGLY.
Jim

Well said Jim as well as Possum ,unless your stung you cant feel the others pain internally or morally!!. said it before , the Caravan Industry is where the car industry was some forty fifty years ago where some dealers/ manufacturers are concerned full stop!!>>

I for one do believe the Gov should step in after all what we pay em for part way for what they should be doing protecting members of the comunity..

Easy for someone to have said they should have done this or should have done that especially if its their first Van or fourth far as im concerned , The quallity should be their as well as warrenty and after sale service full stop.

Forking out 50 to 100 k for something that is going to sit in the back yard collecting dust and rotting is not a joke for anyone.

Law says if it doesnt meet your needs or what it was intended to do they should fix or refund!! , and way it should be for everything purchased..

Same as Illness or death in ones familly , unless its happened to you one can only guess ??..

blaze · Guru

Rest assured people I have been stung also and the barb was long, gave myself a bloody good kick in the ass and havnt been stung so bad since. There are valuable lessons to be learnt by our own failures if we can admit to them and not blame everbody else. There is nought to be gain by chasing the big sympathy cuddle.

cheerss

blaze

Papou wrote:
Hey Jim wrote:
blaze wrote:
First question I always ask is why tow it out of the dealers yard for a start. If you don't have the knowledge to check it, get someone that does. Also 2 sides to every story. I do feel sympathy for people caught, the same symthathy that I feel for somebody losing an uninsured house in flood or fire. There are steps to take to mitigate risk
cheers
blaze
Hi Robert,
Is It ok to address your self buy your first name. I'm Jim by the way. Nice to meet you.
I visited the Sydney Caravan RV camping show 2 years in a row 2014 & 2015 before committing to our van.
My first and only camper trailer was a 2002 Kimberly Camper Limited Edition with all the bells and whistles Cost drive away $27,000. A great unit that took us every where we wanted into the unknown. Loved it to bits and looked after it very well. Lost $3000 over 13 years of fun.
Sold for $24,000
It had full off road independent suspenion.
My wife became ill in 2014 and it was time to move on to a van with shower and toilet.
At the show the Jayco stand had the J Tect independent suspension on a tandem frame on a stand, that I kept coming back to.
That's where I started. The Van was second part.
Put together I had put it all together to make the Jayco Journey Outback 17.55-3. Very Happy we both were.
We could continue our dreams into retirement last year May 2016.
Sydney dealership = 1 only = 5 million plus folks all to themselves. Not a bad market to have Ehhhhh.
They hand over 4-5 vans/ RV's per day. You don't get to climb over the lot in 2hours of handover including the paper work.
Only when you get it home and climb on your garage creaper and start looking at it in full both inside and out with 25W led lamps do you start to find the cheap and nasty workmanship.
The J Tect system is supplied by Al-co, and is a spot on first class bit of gear. 5 out of 5.love it.
Its what is placed on top that, stuffs what I consider IMO was great value for money at the time.
We have spent $50,000 of our savings to put this together. Its about middle of the crop for what we got.
The hours and my Knowledge put into, to put it right plus the extra $$$. Is now fit for its intended use.
I feel SO Sorry for the 80% of retirees who cannot do the same as I have had to do for myself. To make it right.
That % see a shinny new set of happy days ahead in 2hours. For most, its a whole new world.
Only when they feel there way, do things start to turn UGLY.
Jim
Well said Jim as well as Possum ,unless your stung you cant feel the others pain internally or morally!!. said it before , the Caravan Industry is where the car industry was some forty fifty years ago where some dealers/ manufacturers are concerned full stop!!>>
I for one do believe the Gov should step in after all what we pay em for part way for what they should be doing protecting members of the comunity..
Easy for someone to have said they should have done this or should have done that especially if its their first Van or fourth far as im concerned , The quallity should be their as well as warrenty and after sale service full stop.
Forking out 50 to 100 k for something that is going to sit in the back yard collecting dust and rotting is not a joke for anyone.
Law says if it doesnt meet your needs or what it was intended to do they should fix or refund!! , and way it should be for everything purchased..
Same as Illness or death in ones familly , unless its happened to you one can only guess ??..

oldbloke · Guru

Blaze is right. You shouldn't have to check everything before towing a van out the yard. Should be automatic that everything works OK. Next we will be expected to check there is fuel in our next flight, and if the plane crashed due to no fuel it's the passengers fault. So no compo.
The van industry is still stuck in the 50s and needs a good shake up.

Edit, I have only owned the one van and purchased it new. It had a long list of faults, including faulty brakes. But they were all rectified over about 6 months as the faults became apparent. If it was a new car it would be considered a lemon. But all good now, knock wood.

-- Edited by oldbloke on Saturday 2nd of September 2017 09:40:12 PM

macka17 · Guru

Starting from scratch. As said above.

Make a list of possibles. Hire the top one or two types to get a feel.
NEVER put your money all in the first pot.
85% of first time buyers change within the first yr or so.

The average person can get set up. Comfortably with a reliable rig for under $40k.
A basic. fairly reliable rig. $25\30k.

Hopefully long term. Basic. but will probably cost you on your travels. Around $10\13k.

Lancelot Link · Senior Member

Pffft, Caveat emptor! Moderator, please adjudicate and close!

Aussie · Senior Member

Lancelot Link wrote:
Pffft, Caveat emptor! Moderator, please adjudicate and close!

What's wrong mate, the heat in the kitchen tooooooooo high?

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Because Gov make the laws ., tmk caravans and motohomes don't come under the same law or duristiction as motorcars . Admittedly SOME faults maybe trivial ? But to the owner who knows NOTHING mechanical ? They have little knowledge of what to do law or mechanical wise !!! Useless it could be a situation where they have spent all their money and can't sell for what they paid ??

DMaxer · Guru

It is just reality that whenever anything is built or manufactured that there will be faults and the occasional dud. One of the problems with many consumers is that they don't do the necessary due diligence and when it all goes south want the Government, the law and every one else to fix up what they were either too lazy or ignorant to do themselves.

I happily admit that I know nothing about motor vehicles, house construction or caravan manufacturing. What I do know is that there are people out there that do and will apply their knowledge for a fee. When I buy a house, car or caravan I pay those people the going rate to inspect my proposed purchase and give me a detailed report. This works in two ways. Firstly I know what I am buying and secondly, if they miss a defect, I have an action against them. Forget Consumer Law, the case law in holding yourself out as qualified in return for a fee renders you liable if your advice is negligent or wrong.

One usually finds that all of those consumers who are seen bleating away on some dopey current affairs program are in that position because they failed to do proper due diligence as they were in a hurry to purchase, self professed " know it alls" or just too mean to fork out a basic fee when making a considerable monetary purchase.

All this rot about only having one caravan dealer or only two hours for handover is just a lame attempt to cover up their own stupidity. If pickup day is say Wednesday, then you have your inspector go in on Tuesday and do the inspection. The two hour handover period is usually spent being shown how to open the awning and empty the dunny, not an exercise in quality control. If there are any faults detected by your inspector then obviously you don't part with any payment until they are rectified to your inspector's satisfaction with the dealer meeting the additional cost of a further inspection. Dealers want happy customers and will at least know the van is not going to be returned with a great list of warranty items. They will also be reimbursed by the manufacturer.

All this whinging about unscrupulous manufacturers would be rendered unnecessary if this process was just followed. The more you legislate strict compliance the more you will pay for your new van. All the statute law is going to do is mirror the existing common law that has been in place and practised for hundred of years.

I have had a working lifetime listening to people blame everyone from the Government to their unhappy childhood for their problems when the real culprit is facing them in the mirror.

I am sure a few of the hand wringers here will not like my view but so be it.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Monday 4th of September 2017 12:25:16 PM

Bryan · Guru

I agree with you DMaxer.

As I said before its too easy to blame someone else, especially Govt.

dirvine · Senior Member

So Dmaxer,

I gather you get a car expert to go to the manufacturer the day before your car is to be delivered? What rubbish. 2nd hand I will accept, maybe, but brand new no. When it comes to houses the HIA had a warranty period. So you get a structural engineer to come in at the finish of a building? No you would need them to do their job AS the house is being built.

I would expect that when the dealer tells me the van is ready, it has been checked, serviced and made sure all works as is fit for purpose. Just like a new car dealer charges a delivery fee on a new car. They check the car to make sure everything works. Why should the purchaser have to do this as well, and whats more pay an expert to do it? The van should be ready and everything working. Imagine a new car being delivered when only the front or rear brakes work, or one wiper works, or the car only changes to 2nd gear with no reverse. Clearly we expect the items we buy to be fit for purpose and in working order, and delivered and handed over with all things working