SBS TV reception

Hughcr · Member

SBS TV reception

Tony Bev · Guru

We get SBS on our normal TV at home, (Bunbury WA)

I am not sure if rabbit ears aerial is digital, (must be if you get other stations)

Perhaps if you try turning the aerial bit by bit

The original Wingard aerial on our campervan, had to be turned towards the transmitter to receive signals

PeterD · Guru

Tony Bev wrote:
I am not sure if rabbit ears aerial is digital, (must be if you get other stations)

There is no such thing as a digital antenna. Digital antenna is just a salesmans ploy to get you to purchase a new antenna or a more expensive antenna. All an antenna does is to pick up electronic signals (ie radio signals - TV is just radio with pictures.)

Tony Bev · Guru

There you have it Hughcr
PeterD says that there are no digital aerials
So the rabbit ears aerial, is not the problem

I can only say that I get SBS with a Samsung, Toshiba, and whatever is in the motorhome TV

Thanks for that info PeterD

I do recall that when digital came to my town, at least one caravan sales yard, was selling a digital aerial
It looks like a 20mm PVC pipe attached horizontal to a vertical pole

I still have it, in my old caravan, more fool me, for throwing my (what I thought), analog aerial in the bin

Joe50 · Guru

I have an add-on for Google Earth which shows the locations of all TV transmitters in Australia, and the channels, their frequencies, transmitting power and polarisation. The one servicing Bunbury is located on Mount Lennard, about 25km to the east, with ABC, SBS and the 3 commercials (some locations have the commercial channels on a separate tower from ABC/SBS), so theoretically if you can get one channel you should be able to get them all (SBS is on channel 34, 571.5MHz if you're tuning your TV manually).

I fully agree with PeterD - an antenna is not intelligent enough to discriminate between analogue and digital transmissions, it just receives radio waves within the frequency range it's designed for.

And Tony, your old 'analogue' antenna might not have worked well anyway with the frequencies now used for digital TV (I'm only guessing, I am by no means an expert in this field)!

Cheers,
Joe

Desert Dweller · Guru

We've had a Kogan TV for the past 5 years, picks up SBS perfectly just like all the other stations. Get yourself a decent Winegard aerial.

KevinC · Senior Member

For what it's worth, we have a Sphere TV in the van and like others there's no problem. However the old set top box in the shed won't pick up SBS video. Sound is fine. Something to do with the type of signal. All other channels are OK. Maybe Hugh and I should try a manual setup.

PeterD · Guru

KevinC wrote:
However the old set top box in the shed won't pick up SBS video. Sound is fine. Something to do with the type of signal. All other channels are OK.

Let us clear up some terminology. Unless there are some special channels in your area, there is a maximum of 5 channels you will receive on your TV. Each of these channels carries a few programmes. For example let's use the ABC, the programmes numbered 2 & 21 carry the same program, the main ABC program in SD, All TV sets will decode this OK. Program 20 carries the main ABC in HD, only the later model TV sets with MP4 decoders will display a picture when program 20 is selected. The older sets receive the channel that programme is transmitted on, they just display the picture.

As you move from area to area the channels you receive will change (unless you don't move far.) However the programme numbers do not change on the your TV on the ABC or SBS. The commercial channels appear to change their numbering in some regions. The numbers change change as a result to having different networks in that area.

See this link for the program (LCN) numbers - List of digital television channels in Australia

As far as the chanels the TV signals are being transmitted on, here has not been any change in frequency of these channels for quite a few decades. When TV started there were 10 channels allocated. When TV moved out into the bush the Country Party (now the Nationals) would not agree with UHF channels being introduced. The result is that the little FM broadcast band was deleted and 3 channels created in that spectrum. There also CH 5A created in the top end of the 2M Amateur Band and some extra channels created in the spectrum formally used by the aircraft DME spectrum. There were some channel frequency changes at that time.

When UHF TV was introduced the block of spectrum was nominally dived into two bands, bands 4 & 5. The channels went up o 69.

With the introduction of digital TV the Band 1 & 2 channels were relinquished (channels up to CH 5A.) However no channels in bands 3, 4 & 5 were changed. The networks were assigned new channel, generally adjacent to their analogue channels so they did not have to install new antennas, they used these new assignments for their digital signals.

After analogue TV was switched off there has been a change of channels used by the networks. All those on band 5 (CH 63 - 69) were cleared for mobile data services. That is why you had to retune your TV sets in a lot of areas a few years ago in many areas. During the last few decades the TV networks were changed to different transmitting channels, no new channels have been introduced but a lot were deleted. Also no channel frequencies have been changed.

I hope you all can digest that and use the correct terminology in the future.

Hughcr · Member

Ok. Many thanks to everyone! I conclude that there is no good reason for SBS being absent on my cheap little Kogan TV. One more question: as we travel round the country do I need to rescan for stations each time or will they appear anyway? (Apologies to Peter D in case I have misunderstood his copious explanation)

Hugh

TheHeaths · Guru

Hugh,

you need to retune TV in each location, especially if you have moved a significant distance.

valiant81 · Guru

Hi all; Mildura had a re stacking ( as it was called ) along with other locations at the time. Mildura's came in August 2014 and all of the UHF channels ( sbs, prime and channel 10 ) moved in to VHF band, along with the abc and win television. Every one had to do a re tune at the time. As peter has said it was to clear the path for band 5 to be opened up for other services.

Just when you have got over the analog to digital change over and all of the head ache that that involved, not just for the local

Joe public but a lot of matv systems that also had to be up graded as well ( hotels, pubs etc ) a lot also had pay television and sky racing added to the mix , so all in all a lot of work in the design, setting up and balancing the system. A lot of equipment also had to be scraped. Major cost were involved.

Then along comes the government with a re stack of the channels and frequencies, so the work continued. One felt like one was chasing there tail

PeterD · Guru

valiant81 wrote:
Then along comes the government with a re stack of the channels and frequencies, so the work continued. One felt like one was chasing there tail

At least this time most of the equipment can easily be retuned easily and did not have to be scrapped like in the analogue to digital change over. The main expense with the latest change was just labour with no expensive equipment involved.

The radio spectrum is in continual states of change. It's not often the general public is involved. The whole time I was working with the regulators there was some parts of the spectrum being reorganised and commercial services shifted or changed.

KevinC · Senior Member

Well thanks for that detailed correction Peter, though I'm not sure which word I shouldn't have used. The error message on the screen advises that the input is incompatible. But anyway this isn't my thread or my problem ... it was just a comment that Hugh may or may not have been able to use.

PeterD · Guru

Kevin, I should have made it a little clearer that I was addressing everyone that does not use the correct terminology. I was just using a quote from you as an example of the confusion in terminology that many others use (hence the extent of the detail.)

Very happy camper · Veteran Member

Hello Hugh

There are VHF and UHF aerials.

If you can tell me the channels ( numbers ) that you can get and the numbers that you cannot get then I may be able to help you sort out your problem.If I cannot help then I am sure others will be able to

-- Edited by Very happy camper on Friday 28th of April 2017 07:28:13 PM

Very happy camper · Veteran Member

It is not unusual to hear about reception problems with SBS.

It will be fun to work through the problem.

Hughcr · Member

Many thanks, Happy. I'll do that when I get a minute. Are rabbits ears aerials normally uhf or vhf? Btw at home we also use rabbits ears but we are very high up and we pick up all stations easily. SBS is normally on 351 at home.

Very happy camper · Veteran Member

Hello Hugh

The rabbit ears are VHF only.

SBS is transmitting at Bunbury on Digital TV ,

The SBS transmission details are:

Type:

Digital

SBS

State:

WA

Location:

Bunbury

Site:

Broadcast Site Mt Lennard BUREKUP

Channel:

34

Frequency:

571.625 MHz

Polarity:

Horizontal

Pattern:

OD

ERP:

200,000 W

Co-ordinates:

Lat: 33 23 52S Long: 115 54 48E (Z: 50 E: 398940 N: 6304070).

Some TV stations are using VHF still.

So the bottom line is if you want to pick up all stations ( including SBS digital Ch 34 at Bunbury ) within a distance of where you are camping you need to upgrade your aerial:

To receive Digital TV signals from all stations in the area, your antenna needs to be able to receive both VHF channels (channels 2-13) and UHF channels (channels 14-51). Some antennas only provide good reception of VHF or UHF channels, but not both.

You need to get a combined VHF and UHF aerial

http://www.tvantenna.com.au/how_to_improve_your_television_r.htm

There are different brands of aerials that would do the job ( including Winegard ) .

Hope this information helps.

PeterD · Guru

Hughcr wrote:
1.. Are rabbits ears aerials normally uhf or vhf? Btw at home we also use rabbits ears but we are very high up and we pick up all stations easily.
2.. SBS is normally on 351 at home.

1.. Rabbit ears are just something a little better than a wet piece of string - so as to speak. They are not very good as VHF antennas unless they are pulled out to the correct resonant length, the ears folded so they are in a straight line and orientated for the correct polarisation of the transmitter. The long ears can be efficient long wire antennas if pointed so they make an angle to the direction of the received signal. If a long wire antenna is several wavelengths long the major receiving direction is at an angle to the antenna and not at right angles. . To sum up, rabbbit ear antennas are an unknown quantity and can be far less than a good dipole on any of the TV channels.

2.. 351 is a programme number or LCN (logical channel number.) It has nothing to do with the radio frequency channel used to transmit. SBS signals can be transmitted on any RF channel but your TV will always use the LCN 3 or 30 - 39 for the first occurrence of an SBS signal. I see the LCN of SBS is 35 on your set, that means that your set has picked up an SBS signal on a lower RF channel than the one you watch (the other received channel is probably not worth viewing as the quality is RS.)

You can see a list of RF channels that are used to transmit the different networks here - Australian and New Zealand television frequencies

The LCNs used by the different networks is listed here

We would not know what RF channel you are receiving your SBS on from that LCN you quoted or what antenna to recommend.

Try2findus · Member

Hi PeterD. I have been reading the info you provided on TV reception, and wonder if you can help clear up a mystifying problem we recently had on a trip. When we tried to watch TV in Birdsville and also Jundah we got sound only, and "invalid format" displayed on the screen on all HD channels eg. Impaja and ABC HD, but could pick up other non HD channels normally. The TV reception fine again further along the track. Why was this? Thanks!

JeffRae · Guru

Hello Try2findus, I would say the tuner in your TV is not HD and only picks up SD channels

Cheers

PeterD · Guru

Try2findus wrote:
When we tried to watch TV in Birdsville and also Jundah we got sound only, and "invalid format" displayed on the screen on all HD channels eg. Impaja and ABC HD, but could pick up other non HD channels normally.

You will see in my previous answer "The LCNs used by the different networks is listed here." If you click on that link you will see the various channels transmitted in Oz. If you look under the column headed "Format" you will see a couple of different formats for HDTV. It may be that your receiver is too old to be able to receive the format "1080i HDTV (MPEG-4)" If those were the channels you could not get a picture then your TV receiver is too old to be capable or resolving those programmes.

Try2findus · Member

JeffRae wrote:
Hello Try2findus, I would say the tuner in your TV is not HD and only picks up SD channels

Cheers

Thanks for your reply Jeff, however, we are able to receive HD channels everywhere else, just not in that area, that's why we were stumped.

Try2findus · Member

Hi PeterD. Now it makes sense. Thanks for your answer and the links you provided.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Consider Sat / Vast system ?? https://www.myvast.com.au Just setting up dish every stop . But you get the hang of it after a while . It's free and components are not expensive .. A good bracket to attach disc, wire and your done .. The you can watch NRL / AFL or Wallabies ..Hmmm

"People are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is a light from within".

Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

"People are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is a light from within".

Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

"People are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is a light from within".

Elisabeth Kubler-Ross