My brother lost his wheel from Jayco Sterling yesterday..**WARNING ON CHINESE WHEEL BEARINGS****

Goldfinger · Senior Member

My brother lost his wheel from Jayco Sterling yesterday..**WARNING ON CHINESE WHEEL BEARINGS****

Bushpie · Guru

My brother lost his wheel from Jayco Sterling yesterday..bearing problem..

Hey Jim · Guru

Hi Larry,

Bugger me, I have told Ray to do the bearings himself.

Yep. They would have over tightened it. How many time I have seen the same outcome.

I call it the Quickie Service.

I have just taken Stew from Marion, SA through the same procedure doing it himself, after another lot left the callus nut washer out.

Ray will need a new axle and new hub assembly for starters. When the rear bearing melts itself to the axle, you need a sizable lath to turn it.

We helped a couple a long while back 50km west of Broken Hill. It took 4hours using fine points files to seat spare Holden bearings I carry on board with our boat.

Now I carry my Ryobi 18V cordless angle grinder with both cutting and gringing disk's as part of my tool kit.

Give my regards to Ray and keep safe.

Jim

Goldfinger · Senior Member

My brother lost his wheel from Jayco Sterling yesterday..**WARNING ON CHINESE WHEEL BEARINGS****

hako · Guru

The argy bargy over is to be expected - if the van was insured the owner can claim repair, towing and accomodation cost from his insurer. NRMA/RAA provide towing if you break down whereas it's argueable that the wheel bearing failure resulted in or was an accident which the insurers would then claim from the person who installed the wheel bearing.

Good Luck.

Bill B · Guru

Goldfinger wrote:

I believe my brother said 'Triton' or 'Titan' ? bearings were fitted/recommended by their mechanic..I may have the name incorrect as it was not a good mobile line....
Others may know of the correct name?

Probably was Timken bearings

aussie_paul · Guru

IMHO it will not be the bearings that failed but the installation of them.

Aussie Paul. smile

Cupie · Guru

Goldfinger wrote:

SNIP

CHEAP AND NASTY CHINESE MADE BEARINGS.....DON'T FIT THEM UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES....

The Wagga head mechanic found that inferior Chinese made bearings had been fitted at Berri....to accommodate, they had crimped around the grease cap to make them fit and then applied solastic around the caps to ""seal"" the grease....after 900 kms the solastic had melted and all grease had been extruded..no grease= no bearing.=.no wheel... upon further inspection the other 3 wheels were about to suffer the same fate..all were excruding the last of their grease...i.e. wheels likely to also shear off creating a possible death trap/roll over...

Hoo Roo

-- Edited by Goldfinger on Saturday 28th of January 2017 02:04:22 PM

I can't quite understand what was wrong from this description. My fault.

Are we saying that the bearings were too large /wide to fit?

Was it an issue with Holden bearings v the correct Ford Slimline. I think that Jayco use ford slimline with their superior weight capacity .. on the tapered bearing set up that is.

I find it amazing that anyone would mangle the grease cap & apply solastic ... unbelievable. Makes you wonder what other time bombs have left this shop if that is the standard of mechanical expertise.

I only ever use bearings stamped 'Jap'. Just over $20/wheel from memory. Every vanner aught to learn how to service wheel bearings .. such a simple job.

Lucky that it didn't cause a major crash.

edit ..

Of course as others have pointed out, over tightening can cause bearings of any make to overheat.

Is that the correct washer under the castle nut? It looks a bit narrow to me but perhaps it's my eyes or it has been bent over in the failure.

-- Edited by Cupie on Saturday 28th of January 2017 05:01:46 PM

adreamer · Senior Member

Do Motorhomes have bearings?

No laughing please!

Helen

msg · Guru

On each of their wheels. Can be expensive to repair. Ford Transit, just one, $800. However, I don't think they are as troublesome as CV's. Normal car performance.

-- Edited by msg on Saturday 28th of January 2017 06:41:36 PM

Chris61 · Senior Member

aussie_paul wrote:
IMHO it will not be the bearings that failed but the installation of them.
Aussie Paul.

X2 for incorrectly installed. It is better to have your bearings a little loose than overtight, if they are overtight they will overheat very quickly. I have seen many times that bearings fail straight after wheel bearings have been changed. people blame the new bearings when the problem is a heavy hand tightening the nut when adjusting the bearing.

Santa · Guru

aussie_paul wrote:
IMHO it will not be the bearings that failed but the installation of them.
Aussie Paul.

I agree with your opinion Paul, heavy handed mechanic. smile

rockylizard · Guru

Santa wrote:
aussie_paul wrote:
IMHO it will not be the bearings that failed but the installation of them.
Aussie Paul.
I agree with your opinion Paul, heavy handed mechanic.

Gday...

Despite what may have been inferior wheel bearings being used ... this seems to be the major cause of the failure -

".......to accommodate, they had crimped around the grease cap to make them fit and then applied solastic (silastic?) around the caps to ""seal"" the grease....after 900 kms the solastic (silastic?) had melted and all grease had been extruded..no grease= no bearing.=.no wheel... upon further inspection the other 3 wheels were about to suffer the same fate..all were excruding (extruding?) the last of their grease......"

It therefore appears it was an extraordinarily hopeless installation ... sure hope the Wagga mechanic is providing photographic and documented evidence of the workmanship (or lack or it) of the original installation to your brother so he can pursue it quickly and successfully. cry

Cheers - John

-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 28th of January 2017 07:41:50 PM

Hylife · Guru

Almost all bearings are, and have been for many years, made in China so that is not the problem. Neither is not fitting or incorrectly fitting a dust cap, if he stayed on the blacktop, as modern bearings are NOT meant to be flooded in grease. The rear seals and outer dust cap are only to keep muck out of the bearings.

The mistake as I see it is that the bearings were replaced. Bearings only should never be replaced as stand-alone parts (read below).

Also, I see that the inner bearing is the one showing and it has no washer protecting the missing outer bearing.
I would surmise that one of three things have happened:
1. Either a washer was not fitted allowing the castle nut to abrade the bearing outer, or,
2. The castle nut was over-tightened (should only be finger tight), or,
3 The wrong bearing was used (see below).

A common mistake is to assume that looking at either the stud pattern or reading the engraving on one bearing tells you whether the axel is either Ford or Holden.

Whilst Jayco use Ford 5 stud wheels, Jayco do not use either Holden OR Ford on their overlay axels, they use what is called a composite axel.
Composite axels use a Holden LM67048 bearing on the inner bearing and a Fold LM12749 bearing on the outer. (read BOTH your bearings when ordering).

An overlay axel is where the axel stub is directly welded onto a single central axel shaft.
Overlay axels can also be fitted as an underlay axel by rotating the axel to gain a lift (rather than the undesirable of mounting under the leaf springs).

It is recommended (and a reputable workshop should know this) that the entire drum brake assembly be replaced when the bearings are replaced.

The reason for this is that the bearing system has three parts.
1. The axel stub,
2. The bearings,
3. The cups that are press fit into the drum.

Whilst axels are hard and unlikely to wear much, the bearing cups do wear just as much as the bearings and should always be replaced when the bearings are.
As the cups are press fit into the drum, removing and replacing them successfully is beyond the scope of almost all workshops.
The cost of individual parts far exceeds the cost of an entire replacement assembly.

The entire brake assembly of the backing plate, magnets, shoes, drums, bearings, cups, rear seals and outer dust caps, come as a kit for less than $200 a pair (for tandem axels of four wheels two pair are required = $400).
There are only five nuts to undo to replace the entire system, the outer bearing castle nut on the axel stub and the four nuts securing the backing plate to the axel.
Allowing for time to hand squeeze the grease into a bearing and the cutting and re-joining of the electric brake wires it would take no more than 5 minutes per wheel, so at the most there would be no more than 1 hours labour for a tandem overlay axel caravan.

-- Edited by Hylife on Saturday 28th of January 2017 08:28:05 PM

Santa · Guru

Reckon this is gonna be another one of (those) threads biggrin

Will someone pass the popcorn. wink

pOCORN FART.png

adreamer · Senior Member

Hylife wrote:
Almost all bearings are, and have been for many years, made in China so that is not the problem. Neither is not fitting or incorrectly fitting a dust cap, if he stayed on the blacktop, as modern bearings are NOT meant to be flooded in grease. The rear seals and outer dust cap are only to keep muck out of the bearings.
The mistake as I see it is that the bearings were replaced. Bearings only should never be replaced as stand-alone parts (read below).
Also, I see that the inner bearing is the one showing and it has no washer protecting the missing outer bearing.
I would surmise that one of three things have happened:
1. Either a washer was not fitted allowing the castle nut to abrade the bearing outer, or,
2. The castle nut was over-tightened (should only be finger tight), or,
3 The wrong bearing was used (see below).
A common mistake is to assume that looking at either the stud pattern or reading the engraving on one bearing tells you whether the axel is either Ford or Holden.
Whilst Jayco use Ford 5 stud wheels, Jayco do not use either Holden OR Ford on their overlay axels, they use what is called a composite axel.
Composite axels use a Holden LM67048 bearing on the inner bearing and a Fold LM12749 bearing on the outer. (read BOTH your bearings when ordering).
An overlay axel is where the axel stub is directly welded onto a single central axel shaft.
Overlay axels can also be fitted as an underlay axel by rotating the axel to gain a lift (rather than the undesirable of mounting under the leaf springs).
It is recommended (and a reputable workshop should know this) that the entire drum brake assembly be replaced when the bearings are replaced.
The reason for this is that the bearing system has three parts.
1. The axel stub,
2. The bearings,
3. The cups that are press fit into the drum.
Whilst axels are hard and unlikely to wear much, the bearing cups do wear just as much as the bearings and should always be replaced when the bearings are.
As the cups are press fit into the drum, removing and replacing them successfully is beyond the scope of almost all workshops.
The cost of individual parts far exceeds the cost of an entire replacement assembly.
The entire brake assembly of the backing plate, magnets, shoes, drums, bearings, cups, rear seals and outer dust caps, come as a kit for less than $200 a pair (for tandem axels of four wheels two pair are required = $400).
There are only five nuts to undo to replace the entire system, the outer bearing castle nut on the axel stub and the four nuts securing the backing plate to the axel.
Allowing for time to hand squeeze the grease into a bearing and the cutting and re-joining of the electric brake wires it would take no more than 5 minutes per wheel, so at the most there would be no more than 1 hours labour for a tandem overlay axel caravan.

-- Edited by Hylife on Saturday 28th of January 2017 08:28:05 PM

Uh?? Think I'll get a gopher.

iana · Guru

Hylife are you serious?

Bagmaker · Senior Member

I feel for your brother, glad everyone is safe
Mechanics stuff up, materials are sometimes faulty
In 900k the hub heat should be checked a few times after service.
The bearings caused heat, the heat failed the grease, expanded the trapped air, expelled the failed grease
Then the dry outer bearing appears to have failed and the wheel walked off.
More likely the races were simply over=tightened than poor quality IMHO

(edit) or Hylife is correct, wrong bits

-- Edited by Bagmaker on Saturday 28th of January 2017 09:25:19 PM

-- Edited by Bagmaker on Saturday 28th of January 2017 09:25:48 PM

Hylife · Guru

iana wrote:
Hylife are you serious?

Indeed I am. If you go just changing wheel bearings alone on a drum braked trailer or caravan you can only expect troubles.

That you and it appears many others don't know this is understandable. Most folks, even if they have a mechanical background, will have little to no experience working with trailers or caravans, but knowing what should NOT be done should be commonplace for a reputable caravan or trailer workshop that does work on drum brakes.

I would not recommend a general automotive mechanic for caravan or trailer mechanical work.

diggerop · Senior Member

I've removed and refitted many dust caps successfully. Never had any problems.

Santa · Guru

diggerop wrote:
I've removed and refitted many dust caps successfully. Never had any problems.

Yep, as have most of us who have lived in the bush, been changing/servicing bearings on trailers most of my life, never had one fail. wink

Baz421 · Guru

adreamer wrote:
Do Motorhomes have bearings?
No laughing please!

Helen

Yes Helen but don't worry this looks like a one off mechanics stuff up ie incorrect fitment/adjustment

cheers Baz

Baz421 · Guru

Hylife wrote:
iana wrote:
Hylife are you serious?
Indeed I am. If you go just changing wheel bearings alone on a drum braked trailer or caravan you can only expect troubles.
That you and it appears many others don't know this is understandable. Most folks, even if they have a mechanical background, will have little to no experience working with trailers or caravans, but knowing what should NOT be done should be commonplace for a reputable caravan or trailer workshop that does work on drum brakes.
I would not recommend a general automotive mechanic for caravan or trailer mechanical work.

Unless the bearing races in the hubs are worn or distorted,, why would you change everything.

I've never seen or heard this as logic in 40 years in light vehicles heavy trucks and trailers and I've run workshops years ago.

A brake drum is a drum in a truck, bus, motorhome, caravan, or box trailer.

If it is still serviceable no need to change it.

Santa · Guru

Told ya this thread had potential. biggrin

iana · Guru

Hylife wrote:
iana wrote:
Hylife are you serious?
Indeed I am. If you go just changing wheel bearings alone on a drum braked trailer or caravan you can only expect troubles.
That you and it appears many others don't know this is understandable. Most folks, even if they have a mechanical background, will have little to no experience working with trailers or caravans, but knowing what should NOT be done should be commonplace for a reputable caravan or trailer workshop that does work on drum brakes.
I would not recommend a general automotive mechanic for caravan or trailer mechanical work.

Just for the record Hylife, my present job which I have been doing for the last 8 years involves looking after about 100 items of plant, from back hoes and skid steers to small Stihl bowers, and includes the servicing of 12 trailers, twice a year, ranging in size up to 3.5 tonne capacity.

I think you need to go back and do a bit of training yourself!

-- Edited by iana on Sunday 29th of January 2017 11:12:40 AM

aussie_paul · Guru

Santa wrote:
Told ya this thread had potential.

biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

Aussie Paul. smile

Landfall · Guru

aussie_paul wrote:
Santa wrote:
Told ya this thread had potential.

Aussie Paul.

Its got all the right ingredients:-

Jayco

Chinese parts

Incompetent mechanics

So far no WDH?

Now all I need is the popcorn. biggrin

-- Edited by Landfall on Sunday 29th of January 2017 07:49:50 AM

Goldfinger · Senior Member

My brother's misfortune has obviously been a source of entertainment for some, I realize it goes with the territory when I posted.....

Thanks for the positive comments above, which I have forwarded to my brother to help him gain a greater appreciation of his Jayco bearing set-up, when he fronts the original repairers tomorrow....I repeat the head repair mechanic in Wagga said..'don't use Chinese bearings'....and I will heed his advice...at my age I always heed those with the greater experience/knowledge....he wouldn't have given the warning if 'ALL' bearings are now made in China IMO......save the popcorn for when some are unexpectedly stranded by the wayside like my brother......with their Chinese made bearings....Hoo Roo

Woody n Sue · Guru

Well I were sitting back enjoying my popcorn until Hylife put up his post about bearings not being made for dirt roads .

Phew I didn't know I were so lucky with my wheel bearings on my farm because I have dozens of wheel bearings on my various farm machines my seeder alone has 18 wheels and never been on the. " blacktop " apart from delivery to my farm, my 1000 L fuel trailer has been going for too many years to recall and only ever crossed the "blacktop " to get to the other side.

No wonder I can't win the lotto I have used all my luck on the farm in non failed wheel bearings .

Me thinks he is pulling our collective legs Good one that
Any way I'm going back for more pop corn actually I'm pulling your legs too I can't stand pop corn , might as well eat card board !!
I get some Jaffers much tastier.

Woody

Landfall · Guru

Goldfinger wrote:
My brother's misfortune has obviously been a source of entertainment for some, I realize it goes with the territory when I posted.....

Thanks for the positive comments above, which I have forwarded to my brother to help him gain a greater appreciation of his Jayco bearing set-up, when he fronts the original repairers tomorrow....I repeat the head repair mechanic in Wagga said..'don't use Chinese bearings'....and I will heed his advice...at my age I always heed those with the greater experience/knowledge....he wouldn't have given the warning if 'ALL' bearings are now made in China IMO......save the popcorn for when some are unexpectedly stranded by the wayside like my brother......with their Chinese made bearings....Hoo Roo

Goldfinger, sorry to have made light of a serious incident but it was not the incident I was making fun of but the usual "experts" that one will always find on the internet.

I recently read a slogan that stated " That it was on Facebook, so it must be true." I think that sums it up very well hmm

Your brother is in a no win situation IMO, any legal action would require an "expert" witness and a local mechanic is not qualified for that in legal terms, so you will have one mechanic arguing against another. Blaming Chinese bearings is just plain dumb. Chinese bearings are being used in millions of applications all around the world without failing.

Good luck with any reimbursement, let us all know how you get on.