I've noticed there is quite a bit of tree felling going on around free camp sites, mainly because firewood is becoming scarce. Grey nomads may not be the main cause but I think grey nomads could be doing something to look after the places they enjoy. Some of these places are very special, trees take many human lifetimes to reach the size we see. If they are destroyed the homes and food supply of any resident species is gone forever, which means they die. There are videos of people enjoying setting fire to hollow trees, just to watch them burn. 70- 90% of our birds and mammals live or nest in hollows. When we burn or cut down habitat we are in fact destroying our natural heritage and passing nothing on to our children.
Grey nomads COULD be doing positive things around their campsites, MAKING hollows, learning to trap cats, using night cameras to see what is actually out there (they are available at Aldi), logging their findings to Bowerbird or Atlas of Living Australia so science can use the data. Its not hard to do and there's lots to learn. I'm not just a grumpy old bugger, I just think we could be doing better.
-- Edited by artlikker on Monday 7th of November 2016 12:13:28 PM
Hi Peter
I agree with you about free campers using wood to burn if people just used the wood on the ground to use it wood be better.Although I know that serves a purpose as well but at least you would not be destroying trees.We have been at sites where people have pulled whole branchest off to burn but then go in their vans after a short time and leave the fire burning.I love the idea of getting a night camera but maybe just a night vision glasses would do me. The sites you mentioned I didn't know about and I'm sure that I'm not the only one but now I do I shall log into.A big thank you for that information and I agree with you that we could all do better and we want our children and grandchildren to be able to enjoy our great country as we have
Cheers Chris
A lot of travelers have little idea of their effect on the local wildlife because much of the effect is on animals who only come out at night. I regularly set 4 cameras at night and have surprised many a visitor (human) with evidence of what goes on in the dark.
I am reminded of those who whinge about flying fox camps in the suburbs and want everyone else to do something about it. The main reason flying foxes come into urban areas is that the farmers are clearing the Flying Fox food trees at an ever increasing rate.
Still think that education is the fix for both problems but who is going to do that?
Iza
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Iza
Semi-permanent state of being Recreationally Outraged as a defence against boredom during lockdown.
Tree hollows are home to many animals & birds. If you really must have a campfire use fallen timber only (the least of two evils). Here's a few examples that we've taken in the past few months.
Canpfires are fine. as long as you use either brought in timber.
OR old timber on ground only.
EVERYBODY who fells any timber specially in Nat Parks should get a instant minimum
$1000 on the spot cash fine.
You want a fire. Burn your own wood. Bring it with you.
I'm not a barby or round the fire person. Smoky streaming eyes, clothes stink forever. van interior too.
No thank's.I'd rather sit round table playing cards and sharing photo's.
Me. I have a 2 burner gas stove, and had a cut in 1\2 stainless beer barrel with gas pipes in it
on crossed legs.. Controlled fires....
Something about "responsibilities for your actions. AND lack of thought" in most cases.
A question I would ask, Why would you chop down a tree for a campfire? Green wood does not burn to good.
Removing timber from the ground also removes habitat for small animals. Bring your own from a proper source or go with out a fire.
You saved me from adding a blurb so I'll reinforce yours!
Those who claim "Ya have t' have a campfire" are as bad as the other yobbos who claim "My dog needs the exercise" when they unleash their dogs to chase the shorebirds!!
Perhaps the latter would like to walk to Siberia in a couple of weeks!
With these hi-tech days there is no excuse for ignorance!
Warren
(PS, often nightjars use fallen logs for shelter).
__________________
Warren
----------------
If you don't get it done today, there's always tomorrow!
Don't pick up this one when you're collecting firewood off the ground. By picking wood up off the ground you're removing this Bush Stone Curlew's camo. In many places they're becoming quite rare due to habitat destruction. eg. campers collecting firewood.
Canpfires are fine. as long as you use either brought in timber. OR old timber on ground only. EVERYBODY who fells any timber specially in Nat Parks should get a instant minimum $1000 on the spot cash fine.
You want a fire. Burn your own wood. Bring it with you.
I'm not a barby or round the fire person. Smoky streaming eyes, clothes stink forever. van interior too.
No thank's.I'd rather sit round table playing cards and sharing photo's.
Me. I have a 2 burner gas stove, and had a cut in 1\2 stainless beer barrel with gas pipes in it on crossed legs.. Controlled fires....
Something about "responsibilities for your actions. AND lack of thought" in most cases.
A question I would ask, Why would you chop down a tree for a campfire? Green wood does not burn to good. Removing timber from the ground also removes habitat for small animals. Bring your own from a proper source or go with out a fire.
because they are big he men who think that cutting down trees & building big fires increases their status in their group.
Totally agree with people using free camp sites providing they do it without leaving any traces or causing any harm. Cutting down trees, burning stumps or removing vegetation is not maintaining that standard. Personally I won't light a fire in the bush regardless of the time of year, the risk is just too high you only need to look at what is happening here in the Hunter right now and its still only Spring. I agree with your post Desert Dweller except for the "e.g. campers collecting firewood" this is hardly a factor in Stone Curlews becoming rarer in the Southern states their numbers have been depleted by predation by ferals such as foxes as well as habitat destruction caused by land clearing.
Keep in mind there are a group of people in this country who have been free camping (even picking up firewood) for at least the last 20,000 years without destroying the flora and fauna - maybe we could all learn a thing or two from them.
You saved me from adding a blurb so I'll reinforce yours!
Those who claim "Ya have t' have a campfire" are as bad as the other yobbos who claim "My dog needs the exercise" when they unleash their dogs to chase the shorebirds!! Perhaps the latter would like to walk to Siberia in a couple of weeks!
With these hi-tech days there is no excuse for ignorance!
Warren (PS, often nightjars use fallen logs for shelter).
I was not familiar with Aussie Nightjars .. But now I know. Thanks.
Some fantastic photos in previous posts ... Have copied them for use as wallpaper on my Laptop.
Bye the way .. I am one of those people who take great pleasure in making the smallest fire that will do the job. In fact I prefer butane burner cookers & heat beads for the camp oven.
But I do like sitting around a campfire despite the smoke & clothing smell. In fact I have been known to drop on a green Eucalyptus branch .. just for the smell.
My little half axe is no good for cutting firewood so I have to buy & carry any timber l that I want to burn.
Guilty of taking out a dead tree at a campsite on the Murray. It was a widow maker, or widower maker. Dangerous tree that was dead that was dropping branches, big ones where the campers were camped during high winds. Very little was used as firewood, the rest was left as habitat. Dead fall, or stuff on the forest floor is as important as dead standing. It is habitat for ground dwellers. Remove all that and where are the ground dwellers going to live. Clean up campsites but leave hollows on the ground as well. And shame on all who burn for burn sake, I love an open fire, but only really enjoy it when I cook on it!
Well Sitting around an open fire in winter is one of our favourite things to do it's sort of tribal and very social, if your away for months you can't carry enough timber,I believe you can gather dead timber in a responsible manner ,we have a small s/steel drum with legs attached and a plate fitted underneath to catch embers,you see people burning down huge amounts of timber in ground fires there idiots, we're not !
Here is an interesting alternative point of view.
I would like to draw a comparison to snow ski areas. In Aus we have more snow area than Switzerland yet there are continual arguments about developing the ski resorts. Why dont we allocate an area of a few hundred hectares, develop it for recreational use and try to leave the other thousands of hectares pristine.
On the Murray we have 2222km of river from the Hume weir to the mouth. Instead of trying to enforce rules for the whole length, why dont we allocate areas for skiing and leave the rest as natural.
How much of an effect does the collection of firewood around campsites really have on native fauna. We tend to collect firewood from along the roadside before we go to a campsite. I figure that there is not going to be too much wildlife living right next to the road so this will have minimal impact.
In my rambling way, I am trying to make the point that we are not going to be able to have zero impact on the environments that we visit.
Instead we should look at minimal impact by having designated areas for camping, collection of firewood and for campfires, then try to leave the others areas pristine.
Yes why is there a need to have a fire to sit around why not a camp light , Have been doing the road for 9.5 years and never found the need for a fire .
I'm betting them that decry the lighting of campfires are also the people who won't leave home without every mod con, including the giant TV antenna, generators, satellite dish, diesel heaters etc, some of em must be grossly overloaded.
we burn 5 metre in ten days over our Christmas camp. How do I know its 5 metres, we pay for the truck to deliver it the 50 odd km he brings it every year. Do I like my camp fires, yep. Mind you we supply cooking and hot water for showers etc for upto 50 people
cheers
blaze
Oh the Milky Way has gone a little sour
The leaves dried and the flower fell away
I've been sitting, I've been waiting for a sign
Inhuman beings taking up all of my time
Want to leave but I've got to stay
And I'm wondering more everyday
Montreal to Hong Kong
Where have all the good people gone?
Traffic jam but I'm on the shoulder
Took ten cops to pull me over
Bangkok to Babylon
Where have all the good people gone?
I haven't met a friend in a long long while
They don't check my head but they check my style
The modern world is a cold cold world
And all I meet are cold cold girls
Wanna leave but I got to stay
And I'm wondering more every day
Montreal to Hong Kong
Where have all the good people gone?
Traffic jam but I'm on the shoulder
Took ten cops to pull me over
Bangkok to Babylon
Where have all the good people gone?
And it's always the same
We all just turn away
We are stealing from ourselves
We are feeding off ourselves
But we were born in the flames
We need a cool breeze and a summer rain
We are stealing from ourselves
We are feeding off ourselves
Oh the Milky Way has gone a little sour
The leaves dried and the flower fell away
Want to leave but I've got to stay
And I'm wondering more everyday
Montreal to Hong Kong
Where have all the good people gone?
Traffic jam but I'm on the shoulder
Took ten cops to pull me over
Bangkok to Babylon
Where have all the good people gone?
Time's up and we're running long
Where have all the good people gone?
And you meet some of the nicest people around a campfire , with a nice glass of Red or White , yarns of yesteryear and listen to the insects chatting about your campfire or your yarns lol..
And if your a sensible person you dont leave a mess behind...For others to criticise or condem ..........
Unfortunately. There are too many Ferals around. Fishing. SHooting. Camping. and just BEING Feral.
I've been shooting.fishing. and bush camping for long b4 I came to this country ("73) Uk Normally too cold to sit around for long, outside.
It's VERY hard to find dry timber to make fires over there, wet ALL yr.
Lit fires for a while when first arrived. But. Working up North mainly. and watching the Blackfella's doing their "Unlawfull According to the whiteman". burn offs every yr and clouds of smoke for weeks.
Then watching the control it had on natural grasslands Very few of us lit fires. Unless in a hole. small,and controlled. Shovel and dirt beside it. Rabbit/fish in it's skin/scales. That was about it.
THEN the super intelligent "White man". Made it against the law to burn off grasses. and chop trees withing felling range of homes. (Brain Dead Greenies primarily) YEA... And we PAY.... them for their so called Brains???? Drrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..
These days. a LED light with people sitting round under it Chiller/fridge and maybe some grub. Much better than stinking fires I have a 5 mtr LED strip light along length of Roll out.
Plus another coupla 2 mtr lengths that can be set anywhere something standing still, with a small 12v battery to suit.
Cook on a Barby if you like. But keep that stinking meat other side of van please.. We have our camp arranged that very little food is cooked..Mainly fish and vegies.
The main problem is. TOO many travellers. and TOO little facilities. with too little nice areas left with them mostly being closed. Hmmm. Ask yourselves why. FERALS. and abusers.....
Photo them and report them.....Whenever you see them.
-- Edited by macka17 on Tuesday 8th of November 2016 05:10:38 PM
-- Edited by macka17 on Tuesday 8th of November 2016 05:13:12 PM
I was at a camp not long ago. Very crowded. A lot lit a fire. It had been quite warm during the day but as night fell so did the temperature. Being a still night, the smoke from the many campfires just settled at ground level to about ten feet high. It was thick.
Now, I'm not subject to any breathing problems but even this affected me. I hate to think how the poor people who have problems got along. Funny thing, most of them only lasted about an hour before going into their vans and of course leaving their fires smoking.
Another thing about fires are the many abandoned ones all over the campgrounds. Some within feet of old ones. Why create new mess?
I can take or leave a fire - did four months in Tassy, built a lot of terrific fires, but never lit them, except once for some French tourists, first night camping in the bush, right on Lake King William - so we thought we would give them a camping experience. We all enjoyed it.
__________________
jules "Love is good for the human being!!" (Ben, aged 10)
I'm really am really amazed, my first post has had much more response than I expected, and thanks Tony and Bev for the welcome. I notice that there is not one person who feels a need to make fires everywhere they camp and everyone seems very aware of how our ecosystems and animals need fallen timber and hollow trees etc. Sorry, I should have explained the black and white photo. It was taken by my infrared camera recently, the small animal is a yellow-footed antechinus. They are mouse sized carnivorous marsupials (they will kill a house mouse) which live on the inland side of the Great Divide. This one was close to my camp at Langi Ghiran (Vic). Animals like this require fallen timber for habitat. A year ago I did the Qld winter trip and at some camps every van had a fire, seemed absolutely stupid. It was actually hard not to walk on charcoal leftovers next morning.
The photo is of some animals Australia is losing due to habitat loss and introduced predators, I make them from secondhand cardboard.
