Does anyone low anything about Cell Caravans please

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

Does anyone low anything about Cell Caravans please

Meredith · Senior Member

Are you still intending to tow with the Ford Ranger you mentioned in your earlier post? Because while the Cell Estate certainly does look to have everything it comes with a Tare weight of 3050kg and ATM of 3500kg, which would really be beyond what a Ranger could/should tow. While the Ranger may have a 3500kg towing limit, to tow that amount you have to have a basically empty car or you would go over its GCM and also it would just simply struggle.

Chris61 · Senior Member

A Ford Ranger will be overweight towing a caravan with an ATM of 3500kg. While it is advertised with a 3500kg tow rating, your GCM will exceed 6000kg. You may be able to tow an empty van but once you add 2 batteries, full water tanks, a couple of solar panels, full gas bottles your tare weight of 3050kg will be closer to 3500kg. Ask the caravan dealer to let you hook up the van with these above items, then with you and your other half head to a weighbridge with a full tank of fuel and see how close you are to 3500kg. If you have a canopy and a bullbar you will be even closer.

The weighbridge wil tell you no lies, your Ford dealer will and so will the caravan dealer.

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

Goodness is there anything we can tow. It seems it's getting worse. We have a royal Flair Piazza right now and that would be at the 3500. As it has a deck at the front. But nowhere on our documentation or advertised anywhere does it tell us the Tare. Every an we look at seems to be wrong and we just do not want to change vehicles it's way too much money. The Piazza we have is great as a holiday vehicle, but these vans as I told the owner/ builder were not built to permanently live in, and we are finding an ongoing issue when we put the deck down that the rubbers that are between the deck and draw bar are continually wearing and need to be replaced. This is the 3 rd time to be replaced. We are so looking for the right van for full time living. And the caravan co we bought our van off must have seen us coming as the limits on weight etc , my husband is well on top of, but we know we are over. Plus the design of the van we were told was all we could have , and then they added this price and that price. The highest size Royal flair have is 23 ft. Too small with 2 animals and we want slide outs for extra room. We have come up against a difficult issue here. We are aware too lighten the load, we understand all that. But then we look at Elite caravans, no slide outs except bedroom and come across same weight issues. Where and what to do we are so confused. But generally do you know if Cell are any good and worth the money. We don't know what else to look at as 5 th Wheelers are out and this is going to be a trip for a very long time.

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

So please what should we be towing with, as an idea. An Iveco as pointed out in an earlier post whilst may have the towing capacity , is not a comfortable vehicle for day/ day use when stopped for a long time. I surely couldn't drive it. The American vehicle my husband won't pay that money plus they have such huge tanks to fill. Seems our dream of travelling Australia is after a year, going gradually down the gurgleR. Whatever we want is I towable. Some vans my husband won't even consider as they are piut together so flimsily. We have looked at many over the last year, getting one made or us to what we want or what we want is a super expense. Seems this trip is not to be!! We can't use our current vehicle which currently tows beautifully, and is a beautiful ride.

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

We were intending on using the ranger. Selling that was not on the agenda. My husband searched and researched for ages re vehicles. Have had Pajeroscetc before in our lives. Don't want to enter into the huge American vehicles, feel they may be a petrol guzzler by the accounts we have heard so far along the way. Have you a sugestion of a vehicle perhaps!!

Gaylehere · Guru

Hi Stellaginger,

I have no idea about Cell Caravans but they were discussed on this forum once before. Up the top click on search and type in Cell Caravans and it will come up with the previous discussion. Hope this may help. Just a "by the by" the pre Christmas caravan and camping show is on at the Brisbane Exhibition grounds from the 27th - 30th October though Cell is not a listed exhibitor. Cheers.

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

Just adding another answer to you're reply. And thankyou for you're input. Any information is taken on board. My husband researched the Cell about a year ago and was told then by the Cell people that they tow theirs with a BT 50 which has the same towing capacity as the Ranger. After travelling around and seeing what people are towing, I don't think that there would be many vans out there towing legally. We have seen some horrible sights out there, and the one thing we do know is that we are towing on an even level. Some we look at are so in the gutter when they pull in, it makes us look in shock. How can they tow like that. It's just so hard to find a long term home, for the vehicle we have. We understand what we put in adds up, but we have that pretty well sorted now. It's taken us a while. Think we have 6-7 clear outs. It was hard going from a 4 bedroom house with everything in it that opened and shut to a van. A first for me, not my husband who has don't this before but was alone, and had a varied range of vehicles from tents up to vans and then we had vans as well. But not big enough for full time travel , which we couldn't do till I retired a year ago thru injury. So now we are trying to sort this before we go any further. And try to get the best van for our needs. But as my husband has found out there are no Australian vehicles on the market with our towing capacity unless we go Iveco, or American style, and neither will we consider. First cost, secondly price. We have what we have. And we have to find our best van now for longterm. I do appreciate all you are telling me and passing it all back to my husband to consider. It's a huge concern for us , and as I have said we have to decide now, while in the Eastern states before we head back to the west and up north again, next dry season.

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

Yes we are heading south so will miss that. We are going to miss them all so just have to visit dealers in NSW and Victoria

Footprints · Senior Member

I am sorry I can't help with info about Cell vans however my outfit I consider ideal for me because of the ease of towing and the safety of towing with an appropriate tow vehicle for total stability under all conditions. My decision was taken after two years of research however I acknowledge that my choice would not suit others. I feel that you may have to reassess your wants and needs and accept that there will need to be some serious compromises as I doubt that you will be able to tick all of the boxes bearing in mind weight constraints. Vehicles such as mine and Iveco do travel guide comfortably and effortlessly with a van in tow. They are not like small trucks of yesteryear. Good luck with your deliberations. Cheers Allen

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

Thanxs for you're reply. We don't travel with full water tanks unless we know we are free camping for , a couple of days. My husband is ex Army and very handy and very knowledgeable in his vehicle maintenance. Actually we haven't seen many that do anything much to their vehicles prior to leaving much at all. Makes us laugh, as so far in 12 months our Ford Ranger has not missed a beat. For those who have commented, we have no cab on the back of the ranger, and don't need one. Guess we are going to weigh up what we want and go for it. as someone has already said, it all boils down to individual choice and needs. I think the Cell has what we want, we just have to find the right layout. But just need to know if anyone has heard any sports on them!!!

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

Thanxs Footprints for you're input. We wouldn't have the back covered in like you have. My husband doesn't want to do that! We do it feel te need, and as yet haven't. We do not have an annexe, as find staying in one place for too long not our thing. Good for those who like that. Not us. Everyone as you say has to find the right home and vehicle.

Chris61 · Senior Member

Stellaginger wrote:
Thanxs for you're reply. We don't travel with full water tanks unless we know we are free camping for , a couple of days. My husband is ex Army and very handy and very knowledgeable in his vehicle maintenance. Actually we haven't seen many that do anything much to their vehicles prior to leaving much at all. Makes us laugh, as so far in 12 months our Ford Ranger has not missed a beat. For those who have commented, we have no cab on the back of the ranger, and don't need one. Guess we are going to weigh up what we want and go for it. as someone has already said, it all boils down to individual choice and needs. I think the Cell has what we want, we just have to find the right layout. But just need to know if anyone has heard any sports on them!!!

It sounds like you want to keep the Ranger, you also like the Cell caravans. The Estate would be over the top for the Ranger.

You may want to consider the Track or the Islander, either will be capable of being safely towed by the Ranger

http://www.cellcaravans.com.au/caravan-model/track

http://www.cellcaravans.com.au/caravan-model/island

They have 600kg or 700kg payload capacity allowing you to tow with full water tanks which will also enhance stability as the weight is low and usually towards the middle of the van

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

Just in reply, we are looking at other cells as well. Just looking at your rig. We have looked at you're 5 the Wheeler which has all we need, but have been told they cannot fit a hitch in the back of our vehicle. there would need to be huge modifications. This then totally voids the warranty on our vehicle.

Chris61 · Senior Member

Stellaginger wrote:
Just in reply, we are looking at other cells as well. Just looking at your rig. We have looked at you're 5 the Wheeler which has all we need, but have been told they cannot fit a hitch in the back of our vehicle. there would need to be huge modifications. This then totally voids the warranty on our vehicle.

I find that hard to believe, but I don't know for sure. I have seen 5th wheeler hitches in the back of a BT50. While my 5th wheeler is legal, I am limited to how much stuff that I take. I have seen other 5th wheelers the same as mine more than one tonne overweight. It is great to see that you are looking at all your options. Do your research and get it right from the start.

iana · Guru

Before you dismiss 5th wheelers have a look at the TruLux web site. They are in Melbourne, and build to suit, but don't have the high off set goose neck like others.

PeterD · Guru

Chris61 wrote:
You may be able to tow an empty van but once you add 2 batteries, full water tanks, a couple of solar panels, full gas bottles your tare weight of 3050kg will be closer to 3500kg.

Are you sure about that? Did you look at the web site to check on these facts? There is a full solar installation in them. Water tanks full is not part of the Tare, the water in them is loading.

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

Well we are confused with all this. We have decided now to go with an Elite Van. Nothing has everything we want, but Cell and Elite are the only 2 that have. 5 th Wheelers are off the market for us as we would have to get the whole back changed to fit the hitch in, and my husband won't do that. We won't have a cab on the back as we don't need one. The Ranger we have has excellent storage for us, it's just our van as lovely as it is, is not geared up for full time living. In part the salesman saw us coming, we have found out from the owner and we have 2 beautiful animals a cat and dog who love our deck. But space inside is also important and now, as we go longer into our trip, this is the biggest issue for us. We know about loads, my husband did so much research prior to leaving and buying our vehicle. 5 th Wheelers are out, fully loaded or not. And when it boils down to it. In our travels in a year, we have seen 3/ 5 th Wheelers on the road. Only 3. The rest have been sitting in Caravan Parks for quite some time, or appear to be casual travellers.

-- Edited by Stellaginger on Friday 7th of October 2016 12:06:11 PM

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

Looked at them online. The 30 ft would be the only one we would look at and then as everyone tells us we don't have the towing vehicle.

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

It appears to us now after asking many questions that everyone has their own thoughts and likes. Without getting into arguments for and against, 5Th Wheelers / vans , Thanxs everyone for you're input. I can see many have their own opinions. That's fine. But we now have to find what is right for us, so it's off to the caravan dealers again, hoping this time that they will do right by us and not sell us something that is lovely for a summer holiday, but not for full time living, which we were informed the van would stand up too. So thank you again everyone. The subject is now over!

-- Edited by Stellaginger on Friday 7th of October 2016 12:12:48 PM

-- Edited by Stellaginger on Friday 7th of October 2016 12:13:42 PM

Chris61 · Senior Member

PeterD wrote:
Chris61 wrote:
You may be able to tow an empty van but once you add 2 batteries, full water tanks, a couple of solar panels, full gas bottles your tare weight of 3050kg will be closer to 3500kg.
Are you sure about that? Did you look at the web site to check on these facts? There is a full solar installation in them. Water tanks full is not part of the Tare, the water in them is loading.

You may be able to tow an empty van but once you add 2 batteries, full water tanks, a couple of solar panels, full gas bottles your tare weight of 3050kg will mean nothing in the scheme of things. Your weight before you start packing will be closer to 3500kg and leave you no room for clothes, food and anything else.

Tare weight is just the bare weight out of the factory.

PeterD · Guru

Meredith wrote:
Are you still intending to tow with the Ford Ranger you mentioned in your earlier post? Because while the Cell Estate certainly does look to have everything it comes with a Tare weight of 3050kg and ATM of 3500kg, which would really be beyond what a Ranger could/should tow. While the Ranger may have a 3500kg towing limit, to tow that amount you have to have a basically empty car or you would go over its GCM and also it would just simply struggle.

Let's do the maths. From the industry towing guide Rangers average about 2100 kg tare. Add to this a couple of standard persons (140 kg,) fuel 50 kg and around 250 kg for your tow bar and hitch, plus other ancillaries. You now have a tug weighing 2540 kg. To this add your ball weight of 300 kg, your tug now comes to 2840 kg. Subtract this from your 6,000 kg GCM and we can tow a trailer with 3160 kg ON ITS WHEELS.

The definition of GCM from the ADRs definitions is GROSS COMBINATION MASS - value specified for the vehicle by the
Manufacturer as being the maximum of the sum of the Gross Vehicle Mass of
the drawing vehicle plus the sum of the Axle Loads of any vehicle capable of
being drawn as a trailer.

People fall into the trap of using the aggregate weight of the trailer when calculating to see if their rig exceeds the tugs GCM. If you can keep the weight of the tug to the figures I proposed (a lot of people can't) then we add the allowed 300 kg ball weight back to the weight on the wheels and find the maximum van we can tow the maximum weight of van we can tow in this exercise is 3460 kg.

The big problem is keeping those weight figures so I agree the Estate pushes the limits of the Ranger (even though the web site brochure I downloaded has a tare weight of 2950 kg tare and the tare weight includes most of the things that Chris is claiming you have to add.) I would not be happy attempting to keep within those weight figures.

Dianne, if you still wish to proceed with a Cell I would suggest you look at the Peninsula. It is much the same layout (albeit without the island bench) but is a little shorter and lighter. Here are the comparisons from brochures I downloaded this morning.

Peninsula - length 7.72 m Tare/ATM 2600/3200 kg

Estate - length 8.07 m Tare/ATM 2950/3500 kg

Friends of mine tow a Peninsula with a Jeep. They have had some serious issues with the van but Cell has had these attended to mostly without having to take the van back to the factory. As a result of the backup they are quite happy with their selection. On of the things they are wrapped with is the outside laundry and kitchen.

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

Thanxs for that Peter. Very much appreciated. We have looked at the Peninsular online, but have to get from Qld to Victoria to look at them. All input is taken into consideration for our choice.

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

Rereading that again Peter, my husband will be very pleased to read this! We are worried the cell may be a jinxed Van like some of the English vans, as you don't hear about them. But they have the comfort we would like. The Rstate and reason for it was the big pantry if offered, which is to me a storage cupboard for all and sundry, and easy for me who is on 5'2 to get in and out of, to get things. Certainly for as we are getting older. We are looking at the Ivecos to use as a tow vehicle, but the comfort is just not there. But still deciding.

PeterD · Guru

Stellaginger wrote:
Looked at them online. The 30 ft would be the only one we would look at and then as everyone tells us we don't have the towing vehicle.

Dianne, the one you looked at is only 26.5' not 30.

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

We have the ford ranger Wildtrak the latest one out. The bars on the back and the cover have to be removed. We were told this by an Australian manufacturer who is in Newcastle that makes a 5 th Wheeler and also told us that we would have to have it converted to a six wheeler. So that's not even an option. I think there are a lot of companies that will do and say anything to sell you their vans. I did not like her attitude so don't really want to go and look at them, but my husband does. And it is part of the overall exercise

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

Chris our ford Ranger Wildtrak is only just 12 months old. It has a 6 year warranty. Any modifications or after sales parts have anything to do something that goes wrong, our vehicles warranty may be affected. putting a hitch in the back of the new Wildtrak is an aftermarket option. Besides that. The whole vehicle we have been told would lose the bars at the back and the sides that hold the rollcover on. If we had considered a 5 th Wheeler back before we left, where we had no brand new 5 th wheelers to view and only used American which were way too big and too old we would have thought about a different vehicle. But it appears that there is a 5 th Wheeler we do like in Newcastle but the people that make them Australian made and will have to wait for August next year at least for it, has informed us that this is what would need to happen to our vehicle. Now on the other hand and they have a perfect 5 th Wheeler for us, we could wait and say we want one knowing that's how long it will take. In the meantime continue to live in our current van and try to sell on Caravan and camping sales etc and then trade our current vehicle for the suitable vehicle that will tow their 5 th Wheeler. I will find the name of that company and let you know and you can see for yourself online what they are doing, or we buy a Iveco to suit. That is what we have to discuss when we visit. But I thought they sounded a bit pushy and not sure until we visit their yard to see how they are in person.

mr glassies · Guru

Sorry to be a bearer of bad tidings . There is a story I thought it was on here of a cell van and the chassis literally fell apart . And it wasn't a G and s it's there own . It had a crack and when it got put on the tilt tray the owner coul see heaps more . Fairly new van so it wasn't age that caused it . Maybe someone else can remember where to find it

Dibs

Stellaginger · Veteran Member

Thankyou for that. Much appreciated. I will see if I can find it. Reminds me of an English van we once had, couldn't wait to get rid of it. Too light that was for Australian conditions.

Silver Anchor · Member

We also looked at a Cell, several times love the layout and finish but the chassis simply is not up to our road conditions. Several examples of them cracking breaking on various sites. Just do your homework real well before tipping out $100,000 on one.
Regarding the Ranger if that is what you want to tow with you should probably be looking at a Van with a max weight ATM of 3000kg to keep under the GCM of 6000kg. You can legally tow a 3500kg van if the Ranger is basicily empty but your pushing everything to its limit. You can also like most just buy whatever you want and tow it anyway chances of getting caught are not that great but they are increasing as we have all seen. Overweight fine is not really that big a deal either BUT if your veh gets grounded and you have to have it trucked back that will cost a fortune.
Enjoy your choice either way