Gas burner for heating?

Leather Tech · Veteran Member

Gas burner for heating?

Tony Bev · Guru

Hello Leather Techs

No disrespect intended but

There are plenty of reports about people using a gas ring to warm up their vans at night, and never waking up again

Perhaps they had got into a routine of having the gas flame on, for a few hours before bedtime, and then nodding off

Take care

Bruce and Bev · Guru

we have our Ibis air con as well as a portable electric heater, but seldom use either for heat. Our van is allegedly fully insulated (no doubt 2mm thickness styrene in the walls and roof, but after cooking and especially using the oven at night, we don't have a cold problem - but we haven't been to Tassie in winter, but have had part of a winter in Melbourne

Magnarc · Guru

Hi Peter, To answer your question may I pose another. Why is it that all gas appliances have to be vented to outside? Because if a faulty appliance, and that includes cooktops, does not burn the gas correctly you get Carbon Monoxide, an odourless, colourless gas that you cannot detect and is fatal in a very short space of time. Why take the chance? You might get away with it then again, you may not.

Regards,

Phil.

elliemike · Guru

The cook top does not have to be "faulty" to produce "CO"

The burning of the gas produces heat, the residue is "Carbon Monoxide"

vince56 · Senior Member

Carbon Monoxide - colourless, odourless, tasteless and has killed a lot of unsuspecting people.
I would never use naked flame inside a van to heat the interior, pot on top or not it IS producing CO.

kiwijims · Guru

vince56 wrote:
Carbon Monoxide - colourless, odourless, tasteless and has killed a lot of unsuspecting people.
I would never use naked flame inside a van to heat the interior, pot on top or not it IS producing CO.

I agree 100% with vince56........ Carbon Monoxide Poisoning is know as the "SILENT KILLER"

Take my advice and NEVER USE A GAS BURNER as a heater, even with an exhaust fan running, fumes can build up in a caravan to dangerous levels very quickly, Why do you think there is a promotion to install C.O.2 detectors into caravans.?

We have one in our van which when tested, it will tell you ( through LE.D read out ) exactly what the parts per million of CO2 is in the air, it also sets off a very audible alarm when it detects the smallest amount, well before it reaches a dangerous level.

The only thing that can be left running over night and then only if correctly vented to the outside is the gas fridge.

K.J.

dieseltojo · Senior Member

Leather Techs wrote:
with the only ventilation being the standard vent in the bottom of the door. 20 years ago I rented an onsite van for the night and left 2 gas rings burning all night and lived to tell the tale. Please be polite and tell me why this is not safe.

Hi Leather tech,

I hope the bit I quoted from your post is incorrect. You see a correctly made van will have some top venting built in to be made to the correct specs. Even a micro wave oven will have a vent to the exterior.

These are usually a plastic vent and should be obvious on the exterior at the roof height.

The door vent is placed low and is the induct vent the top one or two are the educt vents. All plumbing terms but the simple heat rises theory is at play here.

Any one that says he has never turned on the hotplate for a bit of warmth is either a liar or never been camping in a cold place. smile

The danger though is in the application of "the bit of heat won't hurt me" syndrome.....as others have said the "I will just have a nap while it warms up" and the nap never ends. And children are around 5 times the risk of succumbing than an adult to carbon monoxide.

The kindest thing I can say to you is check for a top vent and if none in sight fit a couple for your own sake.

JayDee · Guru

I agree with all the comments...It is a deadly to act in such a manner as mentioned..

That is why we have installed a Diesel Heater.

Jay&Dee

BaupleNut · Senior Member

Leather Techs, have you ever heard of the Darwin Awards? If not I would suggest that you google them.

Bagmaker · Senior Member

its also about the lack of oxygen, do you get drowsy while the ring is heating?
A naked flame burns the oxygen in the van air, getting you sleepy. The carbon monoxide finishes the job off.

PeterD · Guru

Leather Techs wrote:
1.. My wife who is an exceptional cook will use 2 gas rings and the oven for hours on end with the only ventilation being the standard vent in the bottom of the door.
2.. At present I use a tea candle style heater ( 4 earthenware pots of different sizes, one inside the other, placed over a flame )powered by 1 gas ring set on minimum .

1.. As stated above, all vans are built with both top and bottom ventilation. If you cannot see an obvious vent at the top of the van on the wall opposite the door then the vent will be built into the hatches on the top. The Four Seasons hatches are advertised as having the necessary ventilation area to comply with the gas regs.

2.. If you are that risk adverse then that's your lookout. Cindy does not appreciate people promoting illegal activities on her forum.

Ron-D · Guru

Safety is the number one consideration when using gas appliances in Rvs ,I don't even like those two nine kilo bombs we all carry around on our draw bars .

With the modern tec energy stuff that's coming on the market now,gas will be a thing of the past, but until that happens as we all know we have to be sensible the way we use it.

macka17 · Guru

Jumper. Tracky pants and woollen socks. You'll live longer.

OR come up here where it's never cold in relation to down there.

We used to use the clay pot on rings thing in yachts.
But I NEVER had gas on any yacht I owned.

Metho stove. Perfect temp's for pressure cooker and clay pot with no residuals.
Turn off b4 bed.

Plus a 1.8kva Genny. would run electric fan heater on one
and charge battery's, run lights just fine.

Brenda and Alan · Guru

Elliemike the residue from a correctly burning gas flame is carbon dioxide and water vapour NOT carbon monoxide.

Alan

Cupie · Guru

Brenda and Alan wrote:
Elliemike the residue from a correctly burning gas flame is carbon dioxide and water vapour NOT carbon monoxide.
Alan

Carbon dioxide is quite safe and will not kill you if you breathe it. What will kill you is the absence of oxygen: we need to breathe oxygen, because it is necessary to burn the fuel that powers our heart and body, if we breathe only other gases, even if they are harmless, we can die because of absence of oxygen

You can see from the following how simple the process is .....

If the stoichiometric combustion takes place using air as the oxygen source, the nitrogen present in the air can be added to the equation (although it does not react) to show the composition of the resultant flue gas:

${\ce {C}}_{x}{\ce {H}}_{y}+z{\ce {O2}}+3.71z{\ce {N2->}}\ x{\ce {CO2}}+{\frac {y}{2}}{\ce {H2O}}+3.71z{\ce {N2}}$

where z = x + ¼y.

For example, the stoichiometric combustion of propane in air is:

${\ce {\underbrace {C3H8} _{fuel}+\underbrace {5O2} _{oxygen}}}+\underbrace {18.55{\ce {N2}}} _{\text{nitrogen}}{\ce {->\underbrace {3CO2} _{carbon\ dioxide}+\underbrace {4H2O} _{water}}}+\underbrace {18.55{\ce {N2}}} _{\text{nitrogen}}$

-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 24th of August 2016 08:33:00 AM

-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 24th of August 2016 08:33:45 AM

oldtrack123 · Guru

Magnarc wrote:
Hi Peter, To answer your question may I pose another. Why is it that all gas appliances have to be vented to outside? Because if a faulty appliance, and that includes cooktops, does not burn the gas correctly you get Carbon Monoxide, an odourless, colourless gas that you cannot detect and is fatal in a very short space of time. Why take the chance? You might get away with it then again, you may not.
Regards,
Phil.

DITTO

oldtrack123 · Guru

elliemike wrote:
The cook top does not have to be "faulty" to produce "CO"

True , if the flame is not burning clean,but practices such as inverted clay pots over the burner change the flame ,[ restrict O2 to the flame]

it produce much more CO due to O2 starvation ,as evidence by the yellow colour] certain sign of poor combustion

Any Gas burner with a yellowish flame is producing excess CO ,not burning mainly blue & then producing mainly CO2 & H2O [water vapour]

If really blue it will be an oxidising flame with zero CO

.

-

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Monday 29th of August 2016 02:33:50 PM

Delta18 · Guru

Cupies calculations look impressive but makes my brain foggier than CO poisoning. biggrin

Here is a detailed but easy to understand description of what happens while you die....https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/indoors/air/carbon_monoxide_need_to_know.htm

Cheers Neil

Cupie · Guru

Delta18 wrote:
Cupies calculations look impressive but makes my brain foggier than CO poisoning.
Here is a detailed but easy to understand description of what happens while you die....https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/indoors/air/carbon_monoxide_need_to_know.htm
Cheers Neil

Sorry about that ... I thought the two lines of chemistry equations simplified the issue. Ha Ha

You Sand Gropers had better watch out for passing snow plows blocking your exhaust pipes causing CO2 to seep into the vehicle and be very careful with your snow blowers.