The demise of campers freedom at Clairview.

Two Strays · Senior Member

The demise of campers freedom at Clairview.

Bruce and Bev · Guru

lets hope the CP pays the price and enough nomads don't stay overnight at Clairview!!

Bill B · Guru

Isaac Regional Council banned camping at Clairview back in December 2014, the same time as it brought in fees for Carmilla Beach & St Lawrence Recreation Grounds.

Desert Dweller · Senior Member

Just a taste of what's to come in the future. There are too many of us, with many more to come & lots of locations that are getting rather fed up with us ''blessing'' them with our company.

There's lots of places that don't really need our tourist dollars contrary to what we think. They're doing fine without us intruding on their territory.

brickies · Guru

It was the free campers who are to blame for all of this , This has been covered on the forum when it first happen . The local residents of Isaac council protested about free camper draining their resources was covered in the local newspaper and TV at the time . The outcome had nothing to do with caravan park in the area .

JohnR · Senior Member

Just a taste of what's to come in the future. There are too many of us, with many more to come & lots of locations that are getting rather fed up with us ''blessing'' them with our company.

There's lots of places that don't really need our tourist dollars contrary to what we think. They're doing fine without us intruding on their territory.

__________________

I think there are far too many people making comments on this forum from the comfort of their lounge room recliner or after having weekend warrior trips away.We have been traveling the East Coast of Queensland from Noosa to Cairns since the end of February. I have lost count of the number of free camps/low cost accommodation that is provided and pointed in the direction of RV travellers traversing the Bruce Hwy and other roads leading to small rural/village communities. Being specific lets look at Cooroy RV Park provided for RV visitors to the Noosa/Cooroy area at $10- per night. Gin Gin free camp, Avondale Homestead Tavern free camp back at the Pub ($55- for dinner & few beers)., Kershaw Gardens in CBD of Rockhampton providing large area for RV campers. Home Hill comfort stop that provides, parking, cold showers, barbeques, toilets, dump site as well 2 local pubs drop flyers to the free campers offering $10 meals every night of the week.

These are just a few of the many we have camped at in the last 6 months. We are not alone and there would be 000's traversing the East Coast of Queensland at this time of the year, mind you "Grey Nomads" make up a very very small percentage of the caravaning fraternity.

Home Hill Comfort Stop:-

Desert Dweller · Senior Member

JohnR wrote:
Just a taste of what's to come in the future. There are too many of us, with many more to come & lots of locations that are getting rather fed up with us ''blessing'' them with our company.

There's lots of places that don't really need our tourist dollars contrary to what we think. They're doing fine without us intruding on their territory.

__________________

I think there are far too many people making comments on this forum from the comfort of their lounge room recliner or after having weekend warrior trips away.We have been traveling the East Coast of Queensland from Noosa to Cairns since the end of February. I have lost count of the number of free camps/low cost accommodation that is provided and pointed in the direction of RV travellers traversing the Bruce Hwy and other roads leading to small rural/village communities. Being specific lets look at Cooroy RV Park provided for RV visitors to the Noosa/Cooroy area at $10- per night. Gin Gin free camp, Avondale Homestead Tavern free camp back at the Pub ($55- for dinner & few beers)., Kershaw Gardens in CBD of Rockhampton providing large area for RV campers. Home Hill comfort stop that provides, parking, cold showers, barbeques, toilets, dump site as well 2 local pubs drop flyers to the free campers offering $10 meals every night of the week.
These are just a few of the many we have camped at in the last 6 months. We are not alone and there would be 000's traversing the East Coast of Queensland at this time of the year, mind you "Grey Nomads" make up a very very small percentage of the caravaning fraternity.

Home Hill Comfort Stop:-

We're on the road for 6 months of every year. If you pull your head out of the sand you may have noticed that quite a few free camps have been shut down over the past few years in every state. Yes there are 100's of options AT THE MOMENT. With 100's of people hitting the road for the first time every week they're going to get awful crowded in the future. We'd say retirees make up the MAJORITY of RVer's or are we missing something?

sandsmere · Guru

The Clairview site has been closed for over 12 months.

There is another thread about it on here somewhere.

brickies · Guru

JohnR you are spot on . Lots of people on this forum think they are doing all these places a favour but real truth they are doing us a favour .

Snippy · Senior Member

brickies wrote:
It was the free campers who are to blame for all of this , This has been covered on the forum when it first happen . The local residents of Isaac council protested about free camper draining their resources was covered in the local newspaper and TV at the time . The outcome had nothing to do with caravan park in the are

Another town on my list to stay away from. My hard earned dollars will go to towns that want my business.

Only stayed in 3 CP's in 4 months, each one a miserable cramped site, noisy and full of self interested bigots.

brickies · Guru

Yes you would be the ones they don't want , Clairview is not a town just a nice spot to visit . But most just see it has a free camp .

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Perhaps my memory, like the rest of me, is fading a bit these days confuse ... but I recall the reason for the closure of the free camp at St Lawrence was instigated by the townsfolk who were tired of the cost to their community of the ongoing maintenance, lack of donations etc.

That caused the Shire to reconsider/re-evaluate all the free camps within their shire - and that resulted in the restrictions that ensued.

Far from being an ill-informed commentator from my lounge-chair recliner, as a full-time traveller I have witnessed what I can only call the abuse of privilege by the predominantly retired, GN brigade at these community provided and funded facilities. Add to that the thoughtlessness of the overseas travelling "younguns" and it is little wonder that shires/communities grow tired and frustrated and react by withdrawing their welcoming consideration.

It is evident to those who travel the Bruce Hwy between May and September, that the hordes are growing and the problems are manifest.

It has always confounded me how so many people seem to retire and decide to "hit the wallaby" with little previous experience and then see, indeed often demand, it is their 'right of passage' to be provided with places to stop overnight without the need for contribution on their part - be it a gold coin or simply leaving the place clean and tidy for others. hmm

As JohnR states there are still many places available for use by the travelling public along the Bruce Highway ... but if the current trends of traveller numbers and their attitudes and actions continue, these available places will diminish progressively.

Despite the claims by some 'traveller organisations', the greater majority of those who utilise overnight stopping places at no cost rarely spend these hundreds of dollars we hear of going into the town's economy.

Cheers - John

TheHeaths · Guru

John,

Thanks for a reasoned comment.

What is forgotten when the red mist of argument descends about this topic is that

1) All travellers (CP/campground users and freedom campers) purchase what they need as they travel around. We ALL contribute!

2) I am yet to see any traveller (CP user or free camper) spend more than they have to as they travel around. They buy the necessities as needed, the luxuries as the desire takes them or as it is available, and generally fuel, food and drink in the major centres where it is cheaper. I am yet to meet the traveller who is spending additional money to keep a town/business open.

As we have been travelling this year in the Top End and NW WA, I am surprised, after seeing how rest areas are left with overflowing bins and full and dirty toilets, fire pits spread all over the place, and general untidiness, that we have ANY free camps left open. And don't blame the back packers or locals. Many travellers contribute to it. I have watched them.

So, lets enjoy the camps we do have, looking after them, lets encourage towns to provide them, but lets not alienate towns by an attitude that seems to be pervading this topic, of "if it ain't free, I ain't going!". All that does is get towns and people off side, and cuts our own nose off to spite our face. Black listing towns and putting on this sort of forum just convinces those places that we all have a sense of entitlement, and want everything for nothing. That isn't encouragement, that is blackmail.

Lets be thankful for what we have, and just get out and enjoy it.

brickies · Guru

John you are right I was in the area when it all happen .

macka17 · Guru

I've been caravaning for over 50 yrs.
and watched the deterioration of attitudes and lack of respect for places
on an ever increasing level.

The "average" older couple will respect and leave as found. Some more than others.
We were brought up that way.

But the bulk I've seen over the yrs. Once they leave their own area.
have virtually no respect for anything but their own little circle.
I'd hate to see what they lived like at "home".

The best cure for it as I can see. Is every rec, area (O'Night) and in town stopovers.
Employ a retiree to go round and collect a (Say?) $10 fee for every veh in there.
and issue a parking ticket to any that decline.
Those things are enforcable by law I believe.
A Camera on entry/exit points will fix the shonky ones.
Every veh is reg'd somewhere.

How would people like it if somebody parked overnight , and longer on your front verge.
left all their rubbish behind and bolted.
That's basically what's happening. ALL lands in this country belong to somebody.
Respect it.

Nothing is for nothing. Pay your way, even if only stopping in a park one or two nights a week
Don't bludge off other people, whether individual or group (towns)
they'll ALL get their backs up.

True 'bush camping" is different. away from all and leave as you find. simple.

we've bush camped. Overnight camped occasionally but not often.
Don't appreciate the condition most are left in.
and probably spent 50% of time in parks.Convenience of power(aircond heaters etc)
showers. washing and internet.

As long as you use country town parks, Pubs, etc.(Pay your own way)
staying away from the Lemming collections (towns)
they usually fairly cheap.and manageable on pension.

Scrounging round for FREE anything. is not a good way of life.

And then. Others may be more accepting of us and life will be easier.

Just pay where you do. and ALL happy. Simple.

It's the 'FREE Camping/Stopovers" everybody spouts on about that gets people backs up.

Whoever thought up that name is an absolute idiot of the first order.

Guaranteed to rub normal tax paying, fixed abode persons the wrong way.

Back in his box.

Snippy · Senior Member

brickies wrote:
Yes you would be the ones they don't want , Clairview is not a town just a nice spot to visit . But most just see it has a free camp .

Mutual feeling there then. There are plenty of places to camp out west. Not affecting anyone. We are self contained.

Having said that I do agree that too many abuse the system either way.

Place where we are at the moment is privately owned, has NO FIRES signs all around, yet I counted 7 fires here one night.

Saw an old fart empty his cassette in the river bed as well. age group?Mostly retiree age like myself. Should know better.

I would happily make a donation for bush camping if it were possible.

Each to his own but: Respect the land and others freedom of choice.

mylestom · Veteran Member

Do you have proof of that statement, or is it a case of a friend of a friend told me.

If you don't have proof, then you comment is defamation of a business.

Whilst lots of comments are made on these pages, would love to see the source of such statements.

mylestom · Veteran Member

Thank You.

JohnR · Senior Member

Love to see the post being pushed along with a mix of comments and peoples opinions.I think I have initially taken the post "Off Topic".
However, I have trouble coming to terms with people who make statements and cannot add any substance.

Let me say I am discussing "ONLY" the provision of free/low cost camping AND the flow on benefits to the provider's or small towns/communities.While we have been on the road full time for 2.5yrs we consider ourselves novices, although caravanners for 30+ years and the owners of 4 caravans. There are people out there with 5/10/17+ years who free camp, spend money in small towns, as well go to the big supermarkets to buy cheaper groceries.

Let me say in the last 2.5yrs being in North West of WA, the South West of WA, South West Victoria, Eyre Peninsular, Flinders Ranges and the last 6 months in sunny Qld, as well Central West of NSW and ACT. we have always been able to source free camps when expected and in places like 1770, Airlie Beach, Mission Beach just to name a few we paid $45+ at CP's.We utilize the 7th Day Adventist Church in Perth, Brisbane and Townsville.

Let me say at Home Hill we had coffee at the Cafe, purchased groceries from Cornetts IGA, went to the local Church book fair spending $10- and then Saturday night dinner and few beers $30-We are currently up the road from Mena Creek Pub farm sitting We can see Free camping at the rear of the Pub. Paranella Park who will have a minimum of 6/10 CP's in parking area also provides camping in their admission cost.
Move down the road to Innisfail and count the number of CP's, Motor Homes, Camper Vans doing business and buying from the many road side stalls plus staying at free camps.

Take the Rodeo Grounds at Mareeba $18 pn with power and water. We were their last week with over 150 campers. Just work out the $ value going into the organisation that runs the biggest single event in their town the Rodeo.

Don't tell me about the mess and rubbish left in WA free camps and rest areas. Yes it is there. But can you tell me about the truckies who dispose of their old tyres in rest areas. I counted 20/30 at a free camp North of Norseman on the way to Coolgardie one only example, check the Nullabor.

Now tell me these towns/small communities and regions do not want the RV community visiting or stopping as they transverse this great country.

JohnR

TheHeaths · Guru

And let me say John that we all (caravan park users and free campers alike) make those sort of purchases as well. I still doubt that anyone spends more money than they want or need to, and price rather than provision of a free camp will generally dictate where we buy. People don't buy a coffee because there is a free camp, they buy it as they would like a coffee. They go to supermarkets because they need groceries not because there is a free camp. My point is that we all contribute to the well being of the towns, and it is not just free campers, and that contribution in general is not governed by the provision of a free camp, but by our own wants and needs.

I agree it is wrong that truckies leave old tyres around. That does not make it right for us to leave our mess around at rest areas. I only commented about the NW of WA as we are there at present, but I have also seen the same sort of rubbish left in the NT, SA, and yes, across the Nullarbor.

My comment was made in response to the OP comment that a site was closed due to the local CP. From other responses it seems it was not. It was closed due to the actions of those that used it. I commented as from what we have seen during our current trip and in the past, we are our own worst enemies in the closing of free camping areas.

A town should be free to decide whether or not to provide a free camp. If they do that is a good, but if they don't, fine, just don't make a song and dance about them being RV unfriendly. In most cases they are not.

Esperian · Senior Member

Well. They can do without us, so we can do without them, even more so. As far as I'm concerned, this is for me from now on, a no-go place that will definitely not see me around, nor shall it see even one penny of my money anywhere in this town. Quite surely if I go through this town, also the local petrol stations certainly won't enjoy my contribution to their income as well...

Esperian · Senior Member

-- Edited by Esperian on Saturday 13th of August 2016 02:29:25 PM

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Goes both ways . Some rubbish bins on SA boarder Stuart H. Way have been overflowing for some time .. I picked up heaps of beer ( empty) took em over to bin to see its composting in the bottom !! So I assume it hasn't been emptied for months . We lite a fire and tried to clean it up . After rains don't worry .

Philw · Senior Member

Every time we stop, we pick up some of the rubbish on the ground and bin it. Usually spend about 5or 10 mins wandering around while my wife does the coffee or lunch or whatever. My hope is that more of us will do this but dont see too many bothering. It's these sort of actions and a willingness to spend money in the towns or locales that offer freedom camping or reduced rate fees that will endear us to these communities. Even if it is only an icecream or a donation where possible. It was one of our compatriots at Clairview who helped the demise of that location after burning off the foreshore vegetation with a poorly contained campfire. I despair.....

Krusty · Senior Member

Bundaberg Council is working hard to set up a Free/Low Cost Camping area right in the middle of town. Their research indicated Free Campers are worth a "Lot of money" to the town. Even with this research their was 1 councillor against the proposal (siting they have enough caravan parks to accomodate travellers). Fortunately the remaining 8 councillors voted "for" the proposal.

Phillipn · Guru

Krusty wrote:
Bundaberg Council is working hard to set up a Free/Low Cost Camping area right in the middle of town. Their research indicated Free Campers are worth a "Lot of money" to the town. Even with this research their was 1 councillor against the proposal (siting they have enough caravan parks to accomodate travellers). Fortunately the remaining 8 councillors voted "for" the proposal.

Did that councillor own a caravan park, like the councilor in the Broome council?

Krusty · Senior Member

I believe that councillor was affiliated with the caravan parks (he's still trying to cause waves but is largely ignored) That makes this situation even more positive. Councillors are ignoring the vested interests of some caravan park owners and working in the best interests of the whole community. The setting up of a Free/Low cost camping area in Bundaberg was a big issue at the last council elections with the current Mayor & Councillors pushing for it. The argument was if we don't get on board with this we'll lose this Valuable segment of the Tourist Market. As I've said before on a number of posts here, some towns will want Free Campers and some won't. History will show who made the right decision. Mind you the losers will always blame something else for the demise of their town rather than take responsibility for their decisions.

TheHeaths · Guru

Zbig,

that is the sad type of attitude that gets communities off side with all in the older travelling public, as mentioned in the latest newsletter and discussed elsewhere in this forum!

This community supplied a free camp for people to use. Instead of using it, some travellers like us decided to abuse it over a period of time. The people got sick of it and closed the free camp. And our response is to penalise them further by taking the attitude that we won't support them.

The community is NOT at fault here. It is those travellers who ruin it for all the others by not following some simple rules for using a facility who are at fault, and who we should go to the community and apologise for.

It would be better to go to the town, support them, say thank you for trying to give us what we want, and rebuild bridges that way. Maybe, just maybe, they may then be willing to try again. Your way just shows that there is a ridiculous sense of entitlement pervading the some in the travelling set, and if we don't get it for free, we don't come!

It makes me despair at times.

Snippy · Senior Member

mylestom wrote:
Do you have proof of that statement, or is it a case of a friend of a friend told me.
If you don't have proof, then you comment is defamation of a business.
Whilst lots of comments are made on these pages, would love to see the source of such statements.

Which post are you referring to?

meetoo · Guru

TheHeaths wrote:
My point is that we all contribute to the well being of the towns, and it is not just free campers, and that contribution in general is not governed by the provision of a free camp, but by our own wants and needs.

Can't argue that point, but another point is that towns with no freecamp facilities of any nature, can miss out on contributions completely from those folk that don't wish to support the local caravan parks and just bypass/pass through the town.

There's many arguments for and against and makes for a great discussion, (till it goes pearshape) smile

Cheers, John.