Pension Entitlements

dorian · Guru

Pension Entitlements

toglhot · Senior Member

Geez, talk about off the rails: Using your super to fund yourself and your sick wife is not quite the same as using your super to buy caravans and toy haulers and then claiming the pension.

'I suppose that you could use the same line of logic to argue that people are not 'entitled' to reduce their taxable income by lawful means & thus increase their personal wealth at the expense of other taxpayers.'

No idea what this has to do with anything I've written; but, I suppose someone can see a link!

The pension is NOT an entitlement! It is meant as a fall back for those who cannot support themselves due unforseen circumstances. Spending your super on caravans and toy haulers does not qualify.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Seen,know of people sold second house in Balmain and wast the money just get pension .

Roving-Dutchy · Guru

Tugs and Caravans are still assets that are counted by Centrelink tho they do depreciate as the years go by, and are very legitimate use of your super during retirement.

There is absolutely no legislation that states how you can spend your retirement super you can give the lot away to your kids and at the end of 5 years you can you will become entitled to a full pension if you have no assets or income over a legislated amount.

How you spend your retirement money is no one else's business but your own, so lets all live and let live.
Cheers
David

adreamer · Senior Member

YEAH, I AGREE WHY IS EVERYONE TALKING ABOUT MONEY ALL OF A SUDDEN??

IF YOU HAVE TOO MUCH, GIVE IT AWAY TO SOMEONE WHO HASN'T!!!

The Fiery Redhead!

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Exactly ^^^ I must say out there as out west, up north .. There's the haves and have nots .. Can tell city person over a country person a mile away .. Question . Where you from ? Did you sell your home ?? You have trouble parking that !! No no and no .. Lol Just be happy and enjoy the outdoor Aust lifestyle .. Sheesh ..

macka17 · Guru

Adreamer.

Why am I here.

\Let's see.

I was earning more money over there than I could here in '73,

at 31 yrs of age.

had a nice 2 story home, paid for at 26yrs.

looking out over Shropshire Downs.

3 Georgeous kids. Car Caravan. Yacht. All paid for.

Hmm. I wonder.

Looking around. YES .... I'm fine.

BUT what is there for my kids and grand kids in the future here.

At MY level of work class. Glorified Labourer with mechanics/Crane op, ticket.

NOTHING.

I applied and came out here with family.

bought a Spec, home. Got a job and started work by the Monday after we arrived

When I stopped full time work in '94, I was paying Mr hawk (wanker)

around a grand a week in tax.Every week.

Ex Missus took most of what I had when she left.

I kept myself from then on in part time work to suit.

Till pension date arrived.

Most of us that worked on Mining and heavy construction paid more tax in 10 yrs than the average worker did in their lifetime.

Don't tell me I'm not entitled to it. I worked and paid it in.

UK pension a bonus (which I also worked and paid for in advance)

I've been an Australian. Stamped and Sealed, since Nov. 75.

Travel on Aust Passport. Have 10 Aust grandkids.

I've paid my dues. Both here and elsewhere...

lost 90% of my hearing operating heavy machinery here and O'S.

Had Bone Cancer gratis the Military in UK, and one eye too.

Pain management because of all that, has given me

(I found out today on operating table and ECG)

?/Fibrulations of the two upper pockets of my heart.

IE. They not working due to drugs used to control pain.

And you ask me what am I doing here.

making the best life possible for my offspring mate.

No more. No less.

AND.

I can still smile and say g'Day to everybody.

Will do till I die.

toglhot · Senior Member

That's the point, there should be legislation stopping people from spending their super just so they can get the pension. Super should not be available as a lump sum!

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Your right about pulling out super . But why ? Unless it's very low ? The return off it is tax free ., unless you have well over $1m in super . There's so many different lifestyle / finances out there ? It can't be in one bucket .. But I'm not going to held guilty for being lucky and putting a few away . As with others my work has cought up with me a little .. But ahh can't let minor things get you down .. I've helped my children that want to work and achieve . Helping each other along the journey .,

Hewy54 · Senior Member

Many thanks for the feedback on this. Interesting how many people jump to conclusions.
I was trying to figure out if I needed to continue a frugal lifestyle and still have a nestegg or to enjoy my retirement a little more.
I consider my super as my savings as I contributed a large amount into it through salary sacrifice over a number of years, thus forgoing holidays, new cars and caravans.
I do not intend getting rid of my savings in an attempt to scam the system, but I do intend spending a little to reap the rewards of 40 years of work.
I may qualify for a part pension in a few years but would prefer to remain self funded.
I do agree with many comments on here, but have to disagree with the idea of legislation to stop me spending my super - why should I be stopped spending my savings?
LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO DRINK CHEAP WINE/BEER/SCOTCH!!!

dorian · Guru

toglhot wrote:
That's the point, there should be legislation stopping people from spending their super just so they can get the pension. Super should not be available as a lump sum!

So retirees should take out a loan against the equity in their super so that they can buy a $100K+ motorhome or caravan?

toglhot · Senior Member

Think back to when super was made compulsory, why was that, what was the reasoning by the government of the day?

sandgrooper1 · Senior Member

Yes Toqlhot, super was made compulsory back in about 1992... for me at the rate then of about 3% of my wages. It has now grown to 9.5%. Even at this rate there is no way known that we(or most average wage earners) will have enough to retire on with out a pension top up at some stage unless you add extra along the way .....which then becomes my money because I have added it myself. So I will spend it how I like thanks very much.

You seem to be caught up with the notion that the pension is not an entitlement and is funded by the tax payer.....well then, neither should negative gearing on houses, seniors cards, health care cards, all the tax perks small businesses get.... again all funded by the tax payer in one way or another ....there are possibly a lot more ...and yes I know they are all legal and I have no problem with the system that allows this to occur.
I would add we have never had any other government assistance in the past.
The point is they all help people become fully funded retirees which have been helped by the tax payer along the way. I have never received any of these tax breaks as a PAYE wage slave and consider some of my income tax paid has produced income for previous generations of pensions.
If I had negative geared 3 houses or had a business and sold them to fund my lifestyle and used the capital gains helped by income tax reduction in the past would you be so militant re your views on the pension and superannuation? In my eyes its one and the same.

The only people who can possibly take the moral high ground regards claiming the OAP is not an entitlement are those have genuinely never been assisted by tax payer funded concessions.....ever. Even then if you really want to be picky from what I have read in about 1948 a tax percentage was added to your income tax payable to fund the OAP into the future.

After all this, in my opinion if I/we need it then the OAP is going to be viewed as an entitlement by us given we have paid all our taxes in the past.

-- Edited by sandgrooper1 on Wednesday 20th of July 2016 12:42:08 PM

Cupie · Guru

Well said Sandgrooper1. Exactly my thoughts.

-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 20th of July 2016 01:39:48 PM

Bryan · Guru

dorian wrote:
Just because you're well off shouldn't mean that you should be treated any differently to those who aren't. I staunchly support the right of every politician to receive the same pension and entitlements as those of us who worked hard for their retirement nest egg.

I agree.

adreamer · Senior Member

macka17 wrote:
Adreamer.

Why am I here.

\Let's see.
I was earning more money over there than I could here in '73,
at 31 yrs of age.
had a nice 2 story home, paid for at 26yrs.
looking out over Shropshire Downs.
3 Georgeous kids. Car Caravan. Yacht. All paid for.
Hmm. I wonder.

Looking around. YES .... I'm fine.
BUT what is there for my kids and grand kids in the future here.
At MY level of work class. Glorified Labourer with mechanics/Crane op, ticket.

NOTHING.

I applied and came out here with family.
bought a Spec, home. Got a job and started work by the Monday after we arrived
When I stopped full time work in '94, I was paying Mr hawk (wanker)
around a grand a week in tax.Every week.
Ex Missus took most of what I had when she left.
I kept myself from then on in part time work to suit.
Till pension date arrived.
Most of us that worked on Mining and heavy construction paid more tax in 10 yrs than the average worker did in their lifetime.
Don't tell me I'm not entitled to it. I worked and paid it in.
UK pension a bonus (which I also worked and paid for in advance)

I've been an Australian. Stamped and Sealed, since Nov. 75.
Travel on Aust Passport. Have 10 Aust grandkids.
I've paid my dues. Both here and elsewhere...
lost 90% of my hearing operating heavy machinery here and O'S.
Had Bone Cancer gratis the Military in UK, and one eye too.

Pain management because of all that, has given me
(I found out today on operating table and ECG)
?/Fibrulations of the two upper pockets of my heart.
IE. They not working due to drugs used to control pain.

And you ask me what am I doing here.

making the best life possible for my offspring mate.
No more. No less.
AND.
I can still smile and say g'Day to everybody.
Will do till I die.

Do not call me mate - you have to earn that!!

Also, please read back through your post and see how much you have whinged, about ex wife, polotics, how much tax you paid etc etc.

toglhot · Senior Member

'\Let's see.

I was earning more money over there than I could here in '73,

at 31 yrs of age.

had a nice 2 story home, paid for at 26yrs.

looking out over Shropshire Downs.

3 Georgeous kids. Car Caravan. Yacht. All paid for.

Hmm. I wonder.'

Two questions then:

1. If you new all this beforehand - why did you come out here? and

2. If you didn't know all this beforehand - why didn't you go back?

Back to the pension: The pension is not an entitlement no matter how you choose to justify it, it is a fall back for the less fortunate in life. I find it absurd that someone raking in $75K PA in retirement is entitled to a top up - no matter how small. Particularly when you consider that someone who has had a limited earning capacity or has had their earning capacity taken from them gets around half this amount. Now before someone jumps up and down about the figures, they are approximations, repeat, approximations.

Cupie · Guru

Perhaps it would be better if we resisted making personal attacks on other members.

I think that I will opt out of this discussion.

-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 20th of July 2016 09:08:03 PM

toglhot · Senior Member

They are reasonable questions! I certainly wouldn't migrate to another country knowing my standard of living would be lower. Interested to know why one would...

Bryan · Guru

Cupie wrote:
Perhaps it would be better if we resisted making personal attacks on other members.

I think that I will opt out of this discussion.

-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 20th of July 2016 09:08:03 PM

Same

brickies · Guru

It's all about who thinks they are smarter .

sandgrooper1 · Senior Member

Tolqhot,

I think we are just going have to agree that we have different view points on this subject re the pension as an entitlement. I and others think it is fair to consider it to be an entitlement and you don't.

I would be interested in knowing how you consider/justify that negative gearing, salary sacrifice into superannuation or any other tax payer helped/funded entitlements received through a working life are not considered by you as being in the same category as the Old age pension.
Some taxpayers have not been afforded the opportunity to access any tax relief to help fund retirement other than to be eligible for the OAP.

Financial assistance to the beneficiary via tax relief of any form is the result of tax payer funded help no matter when you receive the assistance or how you think it should be distanced from the OAP, be it called a pension or another name. It just that you receive it at a different time of life.

If you are happy to live off your superannuation and don't need the pension.....good for you. Perhaps you can let us know how you achieved this so we all can be a little more financially independent as well.

Webmaster · Guru

Thanks everyone for your input on this, but I think I will close this now. While we encourage debate and welcome differences of opinions, we do not allow personal attacks. Thanks for your understanding.