Take your towing mirrors of when you unhitch!

Desert Dweller · Senior Member

Take your towing mirrors of when you unhitch!

Felicia · Guru

We may be a big country but for the amount of land, we are a small population. It's about time we had national road rules.

Lynda

LLD · Senior Member

I had a set of Clearview mirrors installed. When I was researching them I read something about them being illegal. However when pushed in (normal) they are right on legal. This implied it was illegal to have them extended when not towing.

Darmc · Veteran Member

Desert Dweller, sorry to read that you have found out the expensive way, but you could also get fined in Qld. The Transport Operations Vehicle Standards and Safety states that mirrors must not protrude more than 150mm past the widest part of the vehicle, unless they are a folding type. Check out the requirements for the towbar/ball, as there are some restrictions on that as well.
For cyclists, some of the mirrors fitted to a large 4 wheel drive are an accident waiting to happen.

If you have accessories on your vehicle that it wasn't manufactured with, make sure it is legal and advise your insurance company.
Cheers Darmc

-- Edited by Darmc on Monday 2nd of May 2016 08:24:22 PM

dazz49 · Senior Member

illegal in Victoria I was informed by an attractive nice young policewoman, when breath testing me at Halls Gap, Easter 2013. No fine just advice to remove
Daz

Bruce and Bev · Guru

although Darmc is right, it is a pity that some police officers feel empowered and satisfied (no doubt a shrink could spend many happy hours with these people) to nit pick on these issues, rather than the pleasant one that dazz met at Halls Gap.

I have clearview mirrors and always push them in when not towing

Mobi Condo · Guru

Felicia wrote:
We may be a big country but for the amount of land, we are a small population. It's about time we had national road rules.

Lynda

G'day - we DO have National Road Rules! This matter is clearly in them! (Had to do a lot of training for my job as a Trials Logistics Officer and ensuring all our filed rigs were road worthy).

Must admit though that each state has it's own interpretations of various matters and that is where I find great annoyance!

Cheers - Ian

Yuglamron · Guru

Yup most states prohibit Extended towing mirrors when not towing.

It never seemed to be much enforced until the last six months or so.

Fog lights on when not foggy are now being enforced in Qld.

How many people know if their vehicles lights are Fog or Driving lights?

I was recently stopped in SE Qld because the towball on my Suzuki Grand Vitara interferes with the Number plate recognition camera on the Highway Patrol cars. It couldn't read the plate I was advised to remove the ball off the tongue to comply.

I wasn't fined for that luckily.

Seems that they introduce new rules and we the public have to find out about them for ourselves. Ignorance is no defence.

One of the ones I think they will start enforcing is the fitting of Lightbars on top of Bullbars.

Something new to revenue raise.

Tony Bev · Guru

Hello Desert Dweller

Sorry to see that you had been fined

Thanks for that information, as some of my friends with caravans, also leave their towing mirrors on after unhitching. I shall pass your advice onto them

I had personally fitted my towing mirrors, done the lap, and then removed them after the lap, five months later.
I wonder how many others do not know of this law

Jamjar · Senior Member

I've learned something else new. Thank you, for the information.

J.

Desert Dweller · Senior Member

LLD wrote:
I had a set of Clearview mirrors installed. When I was researching them I read something about them being illegal. However when pushed in (normal) they are right on legal. This implied it was illegal to have them extended when not towing.

Our towing mirrors when fitted stick out far less than Clearview mirrors when they are in the retracted position. Can't work that one out?

Apparently it's illegal to be driving around with a bike rack fitted to your towbar whilst carrying no bikes.

-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Tuesday 3rd of May 2016 05:34:20 AM

cjt55 · Senior Member

I see many many people towing without any extensions on their mirrors who obviously cannot see down the side of their rig. I wonder if this is also illegal? I agree with Lynda that all road laws should be the same. In fact why don't we get rid of the "states system" altogether.

-- Edited by cjt55 on Tuesday 3rd of May 2016 07:29:42 AM

LLD · Senior Member

In Vic illegally tinted windows are the latest to have a purge on. Personally I hate them as I cannot make eye contact with the driver to see if I've been seen.
My tug has a quick release goose neck that I remove when every time I unhitch the van. More to protect my shins than being legal. Also, my garage roller door bounces off the ball when I pull up the car with enough room to walk past the front of it.

-- Edited by LLD on Tuesday 3rd of May 2016 11:15:45 AM

brickies · Guru

DD did the Police state the traffic code and it's number to which they used to breach you .

LLD · Senior Member

brickies.

Good idea. Not just say what you've done wrong but some idea where to follow it up to see if there is potentially more rules you may not be aware of in that general area.

liz795 · Veteran Member

Some may say you should have known the regs, i say what a bast--- you shouldn't have to ask what section you were booked for. What happened to the days where they would give you a warning , any officer with any degree of public duty and common sense, would pull you over and say, you are not allowed to have towing mirrors on when not towing. SIR could you find a safe place to park and remove the mirrors please . WHAT A GREAT PUBLIC RELATION EXERCISE its all about revenue collecting, i am sure you weren't burning rubber or 20 klm over the speed limit or hooning around were you.?????Oh my my god he didn't book you for having your tow ball obstructing your numberplate. I am sorry i take it all back he was a nice police officer after all.
You are so lucky it wasnt me that pulled you over . for committing such a terrible crime i would have given you 50 lashes on the rack ,you terrible man.

davey · Member

I have 2 rear cameras on the back of caravan ,so we stick a pair of cheap clip on mirrors for the cops to look at , while we look at a 7 inch screen.

Desert Dweller · Senior Member

brickies wrote:
DD did the Police state the traffic code and it's number to which they used to breach you .

My red piece of paper says CODE 4467. ''Driver of vehicle exceeding width dimensions''. Putting it plainly the cop was an arrogant pig. When I first got out of the car I was quite friendly mainly because I haven't been pulled over by the police for over 40 years & was only doing 80kph in a 100kph zone on a straight road with no other traffic around. He must have been desperate to get his daily quota of bookings up. I drove away quite ''stunned'' by his nasty attitude!

Bill B · Guru

The police in this area (NSW/Vic border to Bairnsdale) have been fining caravanners for these things for several years.

Another of their favourites is fining you for having your tow hitch attached when not towing, even if it doesn't obscure your numberplate.

liz795 · Veteran Member

Desert Dweller
i would give the station a call and speak to the sergeant in charge, he's been in the job a long time to be a sergeant He wont withdraw the fine, but he may have a word to the officer.This could help others you have nothing to loose

brickies · Guru

DD you could get legal advice , But that cost would be more than the fine ,Liz795 has a good point of calling into a Police and asking about the infringement notice and the rules for towing .

brickies · Guru

DD I looked up the infringement number4467 states over width or over height , How can it be not over width with caravan on , But over width without the caravan off , The code does not state a width , Next time I see an Police Officer I will ask , Maybe an Police on the Forum maybe able to put some light on the subject

Bruce and Bev · Guru

__________________________________________________________________

One of the ones I think they will start enforcing is the fitting of Lightbars on top of Bullbars.

Something new to revenue raise.

__________________________________________________________________

There have been previous posts late last year and early this year from nomads who have copped (yep, that's a pun) a fine for this and also for spotlights on roof racks.

In WA you are not allowed to have a one strip LED bar light - there must be two, so many people have just but duct tape in the middle - from memory it requires a 40cm separation to be legal.

As Ian said, each State makes its own interpretation of the regulations which totally confuses those of us who would like our vehicles to comply.

Have to say in our travels through the States, that WA is the slackest as theres so few highway or any police patrols on the road and when you do see a cop, theyre getting their discount meals at Maccas or shopping in the malls. The Labor opposition in this State appointed the current Police Commissioner and have announced they will not retain him if they win the next elections because if the increasing crime rates and the lack of police presence

Bill B · Guru

brickies wrote:

DD I looked up the infringement number4467 states over width or over height , How can it be not over width with caravan on , But over width without the caravan off , The code does not state a width , Next time I see an Police Officer I will ask , Maybe an Police on the Forum maybe able to put some light on the subject

Info in Darmc's earlier post is correct.

With no van attached mirrors not to protrude more than 150 mm from widest point of vehicle.

dishlicker · Senior Member

Hi D D

You may have a shot. You say you have a clean driving history, well if you contact the compliance section ( on back of ticket) you may be able to have the ticket withdrawn best of luck cheers.

rockylizard · Guru

Bruce and Bev wrote:
__________________________________________________________________

~~~ SNIP ...In WA you are not allowed to have a one strip LED bar light - there must be two, so many people have just but duct tape in the middle - from memory it requires a 40cm separation to be legal.

As Ian said, each State makes its own interpretation of the regulations which totally confuses those of us who would like our vehicles to comply.

Gday...

hmm Sorry Bruce - in WA you are able to have ONE LED bar installed.

I have snipped this from the following website -

WA LED Bars.JPG

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-advice/where-can-you-legally-mount-led-lightbars/

If you scroll down you will see the full regulations for WA ... and all other states as well

Cheers - John

LLD · Senior Member

dishlicker wrote:
Hi D D
You may have a shot. You say you have a clean driving history, well if you contact the compliance section ( on back of ticket) you may be able to have the ticket withdrawn best of luck cheers.

A standard letter for withdrawing a speeding ticket.

Civic Compliance Victoria

GPO Box 2041

Melbourne VIC 3001

Re: Infringement Notice # 999999999

It is over 5 years since I incurred my one and only demerit point. Could I please have the penalty review board at the traffic camera office withdraw the infringement notice and issue me a warning instead?

Regards,

PeterD · Guru

davey wrote:
I have 2 rear cameras on the back of caravan ,so we stick a pair of cheap clip on mirrors for the cops to look at , while we look at a 7 inch screen.

Two cameras on the back of the van do not cover the required field of view.

Mirror Visual Range.JPG

You can use cameras in lieu of mirrors if the field of view of the cameras is as the above diagram. Do your cheap mirrors cover this field of view? If they don't then they do not then you are liable for prosecution.

delatite · Veteran Member

Well he has done you a favour really. Exceed dimensions is for Commercial vehicles. So write in to the above address and the Penalty Notice should be withdrawn. He should have given you a Penalty Notice with "Failing to comply with the standards of registration". ie an unroadworthy notice. He also had the ability to put an unroadworthy notice on your vehicle. You must comply with the ADR's as a condition of registration in any state.

From memory the ADR's which every thing refers back to state no external protrusions ie mirrors, 200mm from the external most point of the vehicle. There has been much said about this on this forum and others. However if you measure any Clearview mirror, when pushed in, it will still exceed this amount, and you cannot make it any less. This is despite any "Compliance Certificate" they may produce. This has never to my knowledge been tested in court so no precedent applies. I have no wish to be this person so quite obviously do not have them. I fear that any challenge to these mirrors may cost parties involved considerably. I prefer the "take off" variety and use Milenco's. Have had no trouble with them and quick to put on and off. Certainly less permanently obtrusive. Clip on mirrors are the same. Don't take them off an you fail to comply with the ADR's.

For your information the maximum width of any vehicle is 2.5 metres. This does not include permit vehicles, farm machinery and the like. If they wish to be over 2.5 metres they must either have a permit or comply with wide load regulations in the various states. Like you must have seen US wake boats being towed with wide load signs and flags. Unfortunately this does not apply to the mirror application.