Hi Radar,
My thoughts on the subject.
The regulator is designed to reduce the cylinder pressure (typically 880 kPa at 25 deg C, to suit the equipment in your van,
(my stove for example operates at 2.75 kPa), and is designed to operate on VAPOUR ONLY.
If the ambient temperature falls far enough, with the regulator (and the connecting hose), below the top of the cylinder,
the vapour may condense back to a liquid and be trapped in the regulator and the hose.
This can cause a flare up, the next time your stove is lit up.
I have had this experience with a stove mounted above the cylinder,
but with the hose in a loop below the top of the bottle. A cold night, and a huge flame the next morning. Scary
Happens often with BBQ's
It is therefore vital that any condensed liquids are able to drain back to the cylinder,
by having the regulator above the top of the cylinder.

Jim

Jamtin and oldtrack123 - now I understand it better .....nothing worse than saying things must be such and such without an explanation written so the layman can understand..
Thanks.

just  wondering  which  way  the  relief  vents  face  with  the  bottles  in the  front  area  of  some 

vans  from  europe 

I am sorry oldtrack123, I really don't want to get into a he said she said argument with you but not only are you incorrect (in Vic) on what you believe to be the definition of fixed (ie using tools), but you are also way out of date with what you believe to be the National standards/regulations and you are giving out incorrect advice. The entire AS/NZS 5601 was updated in 2013.

I am not sure why you introduced the subject of Low voltage wiring in Victoria since it does not require ANY certification anywhere in Australia nor does it require inspection and testing by a licensed electrician.

Vans only require electrical and gas certification on the day they roll off the production line stating that they meet the required standards of the day.
In this respect they are no different to a motorised road vehicle that bears a compliance plate stating the vehicle was manufactured to comply with the Motor Vehicle Standards Act of 1989 or such later versions of that act that was in force as at manufacture date. Should the regs change later they are not retrospective to existing van owners.

If your state requires a roadworthy certificate before your roads authority will register the van then those roadworthy requirements are state based and have absolutely nothing to do with standards or manufacturing regulations. 

Pressure regulators CAN be connected directly to the gas bottle without the use of a pigtail.

Regulators ARE NOT required to be mounted veritcally.

Regulators ARE NOT required to be mounted to a rigid surface unless you choose to make the regulator part of the fixed installation.

Please purchase an UP TO DATE copy of the CURRENT AS/NZS 5601.

 

Hi Hylife

Re your Quote"I am not sure why you introduced the subject of Low voltage wiring in Victoria since it does not require ANY certification anywhere in Australia nor does it require inspection and testing by a licensed electrician[ end Quote]

What a totally ridiculous statement

Well, I HOPE you understand the Gas Standards, BCAUSE YOU CERTAINLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND The electrical Standards AND what" low voltage "covers

Are you a licensed GAS fitter???

And if so perhaps you could give your definition of what SHALL be done by a licensed gas fitter?????

and

Perhaps you could even define what in YOUR opinion is a fixed installation &  how such work is defined under the gas regulations for VIC

Re Your "Regulators ARE NOT required to be mounted to a rigid surface unless you choose to make the regulator part of the fixed installation"

And is not a regulator FIXED[ Connected ]directly to the van piping AS in This thread a part of the fixed installation???

.

-

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 23rd of January 2016 12:56:46 AM

Thank you all for your replies.

I believe now we have gone a bit to far with your answers about laws governing and no subjections about lowering or placement of the regulator by a qualified gas fitter.

hako wrote:

---

Radar wrote:

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SNIP

What is the vent for?

---

 That's easy and dumb old me can tell you that - its to vent the regulator to the atmosphere otherwise the diaphragm that operates the pressure valve would not have a pressure reference.

I guess if it was the pointing up crap/rain would enter and block it and the diaphragm would not be able flex properly.

 

 

Good Luck.

---

 

Hi

Yes & just add to that  ,a diaphragm failure[even a small leak] can lead to gas accumulating inside the cap, that could lead an explosion within the regulator body .

Such an explosion could destroy the diaphragm letting full gas flow loose!

With the vent pointing down & LPG being heavier than air ,such a build up will not occur

 

Now I wonder if everyone understands how a "GAS FUSE" operates & it's limitations

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 23rd of January 2016 06:59:10 PM

oldtrack123.

Low Voltage wiring, (in regards to caravan DC systems, which is after all what we are talking about), is not regulated and requires no certification anywhere in Australia.

Gas licencing is handled by state authorities and varies from state to state. The site you referenced is simply a commercial web site acting as a commission broker to gain work for tradies.

And, again with the issue of gas pressure regulators, there is no need to get upset over the fact that changes have occured and that I pulled you up on this matter of giving out old incorrect information. Change is one of the constants of life. Please purchase a copy of the UP TO DATE AS/NZS 5601 because it all changed in 2013.
It is unfortunate that there has not been an actual "Standards Australia" organisation (not to be confused with the actual standards themselves which are colloquially known as Australian Standards) for the last decade, and that the maintaining of these records is now outsourced to a money making enterprise (SAI Global Ltd) by the government, and that you now have to BUY copywrited copies of the standards.

You can buy copies of all the current up to date gas standards from here.
http://infostore.saiglobal.com/store/results2.aspx?keyword=5601&Db=AS&searchType=simple&Status=all&publisher=AS&Max=15&Search=Proceed

The van piping, usually but not always constructed of brass or copper tubing, is part of the fixed installation but the flexible connection hoses and regulators are NOT. The regulators and flexible connection hoses are able to be replaced and changed at will by the owner without requiring a licensed gas fitter.
It is illegal for non-approved gas hoses and pressure regulators to be sold in Australia but you should still check that the product you buy from a store meets the AS/NZS standards. Flexible hoses must have the standard printed into the hose and the pressure regulator has the required standard as part of the metal casting process.

In regards to your question of "is a regulator not fixed when you connect it to the vans piping?". In short the answer is NO, unless you choose to permanently FIX it by mounting it to something like a bracket on the caravan.
Many vans do NOT have the regulator fixed in position but rather have the regulator connected directly to the gas bottle/s POL fitting and then a flexible hose runs from the regulator outlet to the vans fixed metal piping. The need to use a tool such as a spanner (shifting crescent) to tighten the regulator to the bottle or the flexible hose to the metal piping to make a gas tight seal, does not make the regulator or flexible hose part of the FIXED installation. Depending on the available space, sometimes regulators with a right angled POL connector are used and this puts the regulator in a vertical position but this vertical positioning is NOT required under the current AS/NZS 5601.
Even if you do choose to FIX the regulator to a bracket, the change in the AS/NZS standards in 2013 means that many of the old ways are no longer relevant or required. The old AS/NZS which required a regulator to be mounted in the manner you have suggested, ie, vertical and below or above a certain height no longer apply.

 

 you stay well clear Hylife wrote:

---

oldtrack123.

Low Voltage wiring, (in regards to caravan DC systems, which is after all what we are talking about), is not regulated and requires no certification anywhere in Australia.

Gas licencing is handled by state authorities and varies from state to state. The site you referenced is simply a commercial web site acting as a commission broker to gain work for tradies.

And, again with the issue of gas pressure regulators, there is no need to get upset over the fact that changes have occured and that I pulled you up on this matter of giving out old incorrect information. Change is one of the constants of life. Please purchase a copy of the UP TO DATE AS/NZS 5601 because it all changed in 2013.
It is unfortunate that there has not been an actual "Standards Australia" organisation (not to be confused with the actual standards themselves which are colloquially known as Australian Standards) for the last decade, and that the maintaining of these records is now outsourced to a money making enterprise (SAI Global Ltd) by the government, and that you now have to BUY copywrited copies of the standards.

You can buy copies of all the current up to date gas standards from here.
http://infostore.saiglobal.com/store/results2.aspx?keyword=5601&Db=AS&searchType=simple&Status=all&publisher=AS&Max=15&Search=Proceed

The van piping, usually but not always constructed of brass or copper tubing, is part of the fixed installation but the flexible connection hoses and regulators are NOT. The regulators and flexible connection hoses are able to be replaced and changed at will by the owner without requiring a licensed gas fitter.
It is illegal for non-approved gas hoses and pressure regulators to be sold in Australia but you should still check that the product you buy from a store meets the AS/NZS standards. Flexible hoses must have the standard printed into the hose and the pressure regulator has the required standard as part of the metal casting process.

In regards to your question of "is a regulator not fixed when you connect it to the vans piping?". In short the answer is NO, unless you choose to permanently FIX it by mounting it to something like a bracket on the caravan.
Many vans do NOT have the regulator fixed in position but rather have the regulator connected directly to the gas bottle/s POL fitting and then a flexible hose runs from the regulator outlet to the vans fixed metal piping. The need to use a tool such as a spanner (shifting crescent) to tighten the regulator to the bottle or the flexible hose to the metal piping to make a gas tight seal, does not make the regulator or flexible hose part of the FIXED installation. Depending on the available space, sometimes regulators with a right angled POL connector are used and this puts the regulator in a vertical position but this vertical positioning is NOT required under the current AS/NZS 5601.
Even if you do choose to FIX the regulator to a bracket, the change in the AS/NZS standards in 2013 means that many of the old ways are no longer relevant or required. The old AS/NZS which required a regulator to be mounted in the manner you have suggested, ie, vertical and below or above a certain height no longer apply.

 

---

 

Hi

I suggest you stay well clear of what is classed as LOW VOLTAGE ELECTRICS under all AUS ELECTRICAL STANDARDS

Low voltage electrics covers AC voltages exceeding 50V  up to medium voltage[ 1Kv]

It also included  RIPPLE FREE Dc voltage above 120V

If the Dc has low medium / freq ripple then the same as for AC[anything above 50V]

Yes, Perhaps I should get the New gas Standard but as I am 87,  I guess I will not bother.

Perhaps you could post a short Extract of the New Standard indicating regulator mounting  ??? ,since the  requirements only came in with the 2003 Standards[from memory], so it appears it was pretty short lived.

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Monday 25th of January 2016 01:14:03 AM

Jamtin wrote:

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Hi again Radar.... Now page 2, what was your question ?????????????

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 I can not remember and for the love of me don't remember any thi g to do with 12 volt.

Thank you all.