Replacing regulators or pigtails

Radar · Guru

Gass regulator position.

Sharke · Senior Member

This may be usefull.
caravansplus.com.au/catalog/help-gas-regulators.php
caravansplus.com.au/catalog/help-gas-installation.php
Cheers
Jeff

Possum3 · Guru

In short - yes there are Regulations that state how/where regulators are fitted. It is illegal for unauthorised persons to fit gas lines or fixed appliances. All gas fittings and fixtures MUST be certified by a suitably qualified gas fitter (in all States of Australia).

Radar · Guru

Possum3 wrote:
In short - yes there are Regulations that state how/where regulators are fitted. It is illegal for unauthorised persons to fit gas lines or fixed appliances. All gas fittings and fixtures MUST be certified by a suitably qualified gas fitter (in all States of Australia).

I not fitting a gass line or fixture.

I believe with in time the way the regulator is mounted on a lenght of flat bar it is going to crack and fall off fitted by a gass person.

Now if the gass fitter had been a real trades person he would never of fitted it there in the first place as he would of realised that it would be in the road of getting int the front boot.

Yes you are right there is regulations that a trades person must fit pipes and fixtures but a DIY can replace the gass regulator and pig tail.

Thank you for your reply warning of gov regs.

-- Edited by Radar on Tuesday 19th of January 2016 07:51:42 AM

Radar · Guru

Sharke wrote:
This may be usefull.
caravansplus.com.au/catalog/help-gas-regulators.php
caravansplus.com.au/catalog/help-gas-installation.php
Cheers
Jeff

Interesting read.

I will study the subject of repositioning the regulators a bit more, it appears they can be near the top of the gas bottle on a short pig tail fitted by a DIY.

I think the way it is position on our caravan it done so the trade person has an easy job and will never need to get things out of the front boot.

Sharke thank you for the link very helpful.

Old Col · Veteran Member

regulator has to be above the bottles to allow any liquid to drain back into the bottle
Regulators must be mounted to a rigid mounting with the diaphragm vertical and the vent pointing downwards

Radar · Guru

Old Col wrote:
regulator has to be above the bottles to allow any liquid to drain back into the bottle
Regulators must be mounted to a rigid mounting with the diaphragm vertical and the vent pointing downwards

No the regulator don't need to be over the top but near the top. Motor homes with there limited height for gass bottles storage.

Can't see how liquid can drain back into bottle when it is full of pressure, I think thats a No.

Yes the regulator must be in a mounted in a vertical position with the vent facing down.

elliemike · Guru

That whole Gas Cylinder set up looks very amateur to me. Does'nt appear to be structurally well thought out.

PeterD · Guru

Replacing regulators or pigtails

Last paragraph under the heading "2) Regulators"

Regulators must be mounted to a rigid mounting with the diaphragm vertical and the vent pointing downwards. Connections with these are shown later.

-- Edited by PeterD on Tuesday 19th of January 2016 12:29:14 PM

Radar · Guru

elliemike wrote:
That whole Gas Cylinder set up looks very amateur to me. Does'nt appear to be structurally well thought out.

I must agree, would of been good if they had placed them 250 towards the caravan but with the way they mounted the regulator the boot door would not open.

Yes you are right, quality of design was not there, now if a amateur handy man was doing the job we would of thought out how we would use the gass bottle brackets to do more then one job.

ruffnut09 · Veteran Member

Radar,

My van, less than 12 months old, has the same amateurish set up for the gas bottles and the regulator is fastened to the ring (that holds the gas bottle.Same as yours except lower.) I would remove the regulators then remove the reg. bracket, shorten it and refix it to the "ring". The top of my regulator is only as high as the top radius of the propane bottle. This arrangement keeps the reg. well out of the way when loading the front boot. You will have to check to see if the hose is long enough to reach the other bottle.
I have not tampered with this arrangement.....it is as bought from the manufacturer.

Ruff.

Radar · Guru

ruffnut09 wrote:
Radar,

My van, less than 12 months old, has the same amateurish set up for the gas bottles and the regulator is fastened to the ring (that holds the gas bottle.Same as yours except lower.) I would remove the regulators then remove the reg. bracket, shorten it and refix it to the "ring". The top of my regulator is only as high as the top radius of the propane bottle. This arrangement keeps the reg. well out of the way when loading the front boot. You will have to check to see if the hose is long enough to reach the other bottle.
I have not tampered with this arrangement.....it is as bought from the manufacturer.

Ruff.

Thank you Ruffnut09, I will attempt to relocate in a much more friendlier position.

My many concern was there height above the bottle or not, now to do the job.

PeterD · Guru

Radar wrote:
Thank you Ruffnut09, I will attempt to relocate in a much more friendlier position.
My many concern was there height above the bottle or not, now to do the job.

I quoted from one of Jeff's (Sharke) links above. I should have quoted from the other:

The regulator is connected to the gas cylinder with a pigtail, min length 300mm. The regulator must be a two stage regulator mounted vertically to a rigid mount, with the vent pointing down. The pigtail should slope down from the regulator to the gas cylinder to prevent liquid gas reaching the regulator.

The last sentence is important. In the past travellers have had problems with gunk in the gas lodging itself in the regulator and blocking it. It is important to have a downward slope from the regulator to run this gunk back from the regulator. I would suggest that you don't mount the regulator too low.

On the three vans I have had with twin bottles there was a strap of the same material as used to manufacture the cradles joining the rear sides of the two rings on the cradles. That vertical piece that holds your regulator was welded to the middle of that. Going that way could assist in lowering the regulator.

I believe that bottles have to be mounted within the confines of the drawbar these days. You can attempt that. If you are moving your bottles back a little then you could also move them together so the base rings of the bottles will drop between the drawbar members. That will will give you 30 mm or more drop in the height of the bottles This will just require a mounting frame to fit down into the drawbar area.

see how you can go with that.

elliemike · Guru

Image result for caravan gas bottle holder

This is a more standard set up Both cages supported by connecting them together.

The regulator in the picture is about the correct height for me ! if I was doing the job. But it could be a little lower.

My Avan gas setup is similar to this, but the regulator was fitted much lower as a factory standard.

I raised it about two years ago when the Regulator gunked up. After eight years in the lower position it was still working OK but not 100%.

New regulator fitted and a raised modified bracket has the Reg sort of similar to the picture above.

Regards

Mike

Radar · Guru

I quoted from one of Jeff's (Sharke) links above. I should have quoted from the other:
The regulator is connected to the gas cylinder with a pigtail, min length 300mm. The regulator must be a two stage regulator mounted vertically to a rigid mount, with the vent pointing down. The pigtail should slope down from the regulator to the gas cylinder to prevent liquid gas reaching the regulator.
The last sentence is important. In the past travellers have had problems with gunk in the gas lodging itself in the regulator and blocking it. It is important to have a downward slope from the regulator to run this gunk back from the regulator. I would suggest that you don't mount the regulator too low.
On the three vans I have had with twin bottles there was a strap of the same material as used to manufacture the cradles joining the rear sides of the two rings on the cradles. That vertical piece that holds your regulator was welded to the middle of that. Going that way could assist in lowering the regulator.
I believe that bottles have to be mounted within the confines of the drawbar these days. You can attempt that. If you are moving your bottles back a little then you could also move them together so the base rings of the bottles will drop between the drawbar members. That will will give you 30 mm or more drop in the height of the bottles This will just require a mounting frame to fit down into that.

Thank you PeterD.

Now I am in trouble, we will see what happens down the line.

I have so far only lowered the regulators on the original bracket and was pretty happy with that excercise as now I can reach into the front boot with out being hindered by the regulator.

The caravan is now 7 years old and if and only if the original regulator packs up in the near future it still was a good mod allowing me easy assess to the boot. I will pick up a spare regulator and carry it with us at a good price.

Thank you for your time and in put.

-- Edited by Radar on Tuesday 19th of January 2016 09:33:07 PM

-- Edited by Radar on Tuesday 19th of January 2016 09:33:42 PM

Olley46 · Guru

I have always been told to face the outlets of the gas bottles away from the van incase of failure,is this so.

Lance C

Radar · Guru

Olley46 wrote:
I have always been told to face the outlets of the gas bottles away from the van incase of failure,is this so.
Lance C

I will go straight outside and face the opening away from pointing towards the van.

hako · Guru

Olley46 wrote:
I have always been told to face the outlets of the gas bottles away from the van incase of failure,is this so.
Lance C

Lance - what if the safety valve fails or vents gas? I suppose in reality on some vans (mine) there is only one way it can go due to the length of the hose - at 45deg and towards the van.

Regards

Baplumber · Member

You face the relief vent away from van or house in case the vent releases pressure through heat or expansion and catches fire which impinges flame onto caravan or house

Radar · Guru

Baplumber wrote:
You face the relief vent away from van or house in case the vent releases pressure through heat or expansion and catches fire which impinges flame onto caravan or house

From a plumber, gas fitter point of view where do you think on a caravan should the regulator sit, along with gas bottles?

Your imput would be welcome, remember I a DIY person not a tradie and my skills and knowledge is limited.

PS. The setting with your caravan and Tow vehicle in your avatar looks pretty good. Nice work.

-- Edited by Radar on Wednesday 20th of January 2016 10:31:01 PM

Hylife · Guru

So much old wifes tales here.

The regs apply to fixed lines and appliances, similarly to fixed electrical wiring.

The reg on most gas setups is not fixed but connected via a user changeable flexible hose just like on your BBQ at home and so you may fit it wherever you like.

If you choose to make some sort of fixed mount such as in "Radar's" pic then it becomes fixed and the regs apply.

Keep it 'un-fixed' and you can simply screw the reg directly to the bottles POL outlet in a horizontal manner and have the flexible hose connecting to the fixed pipework.

-- Edited by Hylife on Wednesday 20th of January 2016 10:34:34 PM

PeterD · Guru

Hylife, you are a gas fitter are you?

Radar · Guru

Hylife wrote:

If you choose to make some sort of fixed mount such as in "Radar's" pic then it becomes fixed and the regs apply.
Keep it 'un-fixed' and you can simply screw the reg directly to the bottles POL outlet in a horizontal manner and have the flexible hose connecting to the fixed pipework.

-- Edited by Hylife on Wednesday 20th of January 2016 10:34:34 PM

Hylife I did read in the regulations that on a caravan the regulator must be secured to the fame/body of caravan.

It was the actual height of mounting the regulator that I was after.

Baplumber · Member

The height and position looks ok but the gas relief vents should face away from caravan. The relief vents are designed to release gas pressure from heat or excess pressure and can catch on fire and the flame will impinge on caravan

Baplumber · Member

Radar the position of your gas relief vents is ok it is the position of relief vent not the gas outlet. The Avatar was taken at a free stop we had about three nights after we left you on the Cooktown trip

Radar · Guru

Baplumber wrote:
Radar the position of your gas relief vents is ok it is the position of relief vent not the gas outlet. The Avatar was taken at a free stop we had about three nights after we left you on the Cooktown trip

Thank you BA hope to meet up on the road soon.

oldtrack123 · Guru

Hylife wrote:
So much old wifes tales here.
The regs apply to fixed lines and appliances, similarly to fixed electrical wiring.
The reg on most gas setups is not fixed but connected via a user changeable flexible hose just like on your BBQ at home and so you may fit it wherever you like.
If you choose to make some sort of fixed mount such as in "Radar's" pic then it becomes fixed and the regs apply.
Keep it 'un-fixed' and you can simply screw the reg directly to the bottles POL outlet in a horizontal manner and have the flexible hose connecting to the fixed pipework.

-- Edited by Hylife on Wednesday 20th of January 2016 10:34:34 PM

Hi

FIXED connections are ALL those that require a tool to FIT/MAKE the connection

Just like low voltage electrics !!

IF The changes proposed /carried out by Radar require TOOLS, to fix gas lines ,it is LICENSED GAS FITTERS WORK!!

The MANDATORY requirement for the high pressure hoses to be able to drain back into the bottles Is based on a proven problem!

As is the requirement for the vent to point downwards.

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Thursday 21st of January 2016 01:57:40 PM

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Thursday 21st of January 2016 02:04:34 PM

Hylife · Guru

AS/NZS 5601 2013 is the preferred standards relating to gas installations and whilst each state DOES (in general) abide by those standards, each state can impose their own additional rules or variations, and have no legal obligation to accept these standards completely or at all.
Additionally, our federal court has many years ago decreed that standards/rules/regulations/laws etc cannot be made retrospective in Australia, therefore all gas installations that met the appropriate laws or standards 'of the day' will continue to remain legal.

OLDCOL <quote> regulator has to be above the bottles to allow any liquid to drain back into the bottle </quote>

This is not correct. That rule along with many others was changed in 2013. There is now no requirement to be above the bottle.

4.3

Regulator to be positioned to permit drainage of liquid back into the cylinder

oldtrack <quote> IF The changes proposed /carried out by Radar require TOOLS, to fix gas lines ,it is LICENSED GAS FITTERS WORK!! </quote>

That is not correct in Victoria but each state has different rules and I am not up to date with every every other states rules. The only reference to tools in the AS/NZS regulations relates to accessability.

5.2.2

Shut off valves and hoses must be accessed without the use of a tool; i.e. readily accessible (refer definition)

Again I contend that the simplest installtion anyone can do is to purchase a pressure regulator certified to AS4621 or UL144 with a POL fitting (available in either horizontal or verticle) and cannect it directly to your gas bottle and then use a flexible hose from the regulator to your FIXED pipework. In Victoria you do NOT need to be licensed to carry out these type of NON-FIXED gas connections.

oldtrack123 · Guru

Hi Hylife
Yes, a bit like Victoria does not require licensed Electricians to carry out FIXED low voltage wiring in Vans etc made in Vic
But the completed unit has to be tested & inspected by a licensed electrician & issued with a compliance certificate.

No Standard is retrospective, EXCEPT FOR WHEN CHANGES ARE MADE.
n

Regarding the reg being above the bottle so the hose can drain back,

"quote' The regulator is connected to the gas cylinder with a pigtail ,minimum length 300mm

The regulator must be a two stage regulator mounted vertically to a rigid surface , with the VENT POINTING DOWN

The PIGTAIL should slope down from the regulator to the gas cylinder , to PREVENT LIQUID GAS
reaching the regulator.[end quote]

Again perhaps Vic is doing it's own thing, but it was /IS a requirement in Qld for an approval cert for sale of used vans etc ,irrespective of when they were made.

hako · Guru

Dunno about anyone else reading this thread but I'm totally confused. confuse