Bent - sagged springs BT 50

Stl · Senior Member

Bent - sagged springs BT 50

Baz421 · Guru

What model Len and what kerb weight as they differ quite a lot, say 2100ish to 2400kg ish.

chris & terry · Senior Member

I had an OME suspension upgrade on my BT50 cab/ chas when after only 1,500klm I noticed rear sagging (on the car). Did it at my own expense as I was not prepared for a protracted argument with Mazda and realised it was needed for my use with towing and safety. Peace of mind and money well spent.

Terry

Baz421 · Guru

Len for info from another forum.

Thanks for your reply and comments. The idea of this post was to highlight the problems that I have had that perhaps others may learn from my mistakes. The main mistake was thinking that the medium duty ute such as the BT50 would handle rough conditions with a constant load of approximately 600kg.

I have taken the BT50 in rough areas but no-where as tough as I put my previous vehicle through (Hilux Dual Cab 89 model 2.8 turbo) and it lasted 15 years. The majority of the BT50's life has been travelling to work and back unloaded, but 4wd trips include the Simpson desert, CSR and a few vic high country trips.

Hopefully anyone looking at carrying slideon campers will steer away from the medium duty 4WD utes if they are thinking of travelling to the outback - my experience is that they just don't cut it.

Baz421 · Guru

More info Len on suspension issues from owners etc.

http://www.ssa.com.au/BT50/

http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/101598/BT_50_Suspension_upgrade.aspx

http://www.ozmazda.com/board/index.php/topic/18126-sagged-suspension/

you may not like the news here Len.

We have Landcruiser LC79 series UTE and we upgraded our suspension and GVM to 3700kg from near new, so you are not alone.

Many of my mates in the NT dumped standard suspensions on utes (they give you a good on road ride and therefore get reviews in magazines) and upgraded - MANY MAKES AND MODELS.

Stl · Senior Member

Hi Baz. 2012 model, twin cab 3.2 motor GVM 3.2. Mine came in at 2.68. Rear axel specs 1.850 mine 1.4, combined weight 6.00 mine 5.44 tow ball .350 mine .242. And yes Chris and Terry what you are saying is what I'm getting from people I've spoken to and ARB, TJM, and other suspension places people just upgrade them , not only the BT 50s but the Rangers, Nissan and others because the factory suspensions don't do what they claim and like yourselves give up with the run around from the dealers. My question is though is there any one that has had theirs replaced under warranty as it doesn't do what they claim it should do as per Fair Trading.

Len.

Baz421 · Guru

Stl wrote:
Hi Baz. 2012 model, twin cab 3.2 motor GVM 3.2. Mine came in at 2.68. Rear axel specs 1.850 mine 1.4, combined weight 6.00 mine 5.44 tow ball .350 mine .242. And yes Chris and Terry what you are saying is what I'm getting from people I've spoken to and ARB, TJM, and other suspension places people just upgrade them , not only the BT 50s but the Rangers, Nissan and others because the factory suspensions don't do what they claim and like yourselves give up with the run around from the dealers. My question is though is there any one that has had theirs replaced under warranty as it doesn't do what they claim it should do as per Fair Trading.

Len.

Thanks Len,,, see my previous post. Good luck with Mazda mate.

Stl · Senior Member

Thanks Bazz, I think I will need some or a lot of luck, when I took it to the dealer they said they had never herd of this problem, yeh right. I have photos and by luck had my set up weighed in Jan for my personal Knowledge. am now dealing with customer - tech support in Melbourne, who wanted rear axel weight. Took it to a weigh bride again today to get rear axel weight which I didn't get first time, all weights well under their specs. It's now parked up at their dealership again With the weigh bridge dockets. I'm just hoping others have had theirs replaced under warranty as this will hopefully help me..

Len

harleyjs · Member

i replaced the rear springs on my 2010 BT50 with thicker seven leaf springs. my ute had dragged camper trailer/caravan for 2 laps by then, oh, and the boot is always chockers too, so reckon i cant complain.

harley

Desert Dweller · Guru

A good warning to all who tow at or near to the max. Just because a maker claims that their vehicle is rated to tow a certain weight doesn't mean that you go out & buy a van of that weight.
Dragging a van around at the max all the time particularly over less than perfect roads is always going to result in the failure of some component in the vehicle. Don't expect much sympathy from the vehicles manufacturer either.

bill12 · Guru

I have a 02 ford courier 4wd diesel ute and load my 600kg home made slide on, and have added Load plus overider helper springs to the back. Amazing diference. More stable, no bottoming out. Been the Cape Yprk and Borraloola via the QLD Gulf, so they work. Also towing a 14ft tinnie on off road trailer on those trips. My opinion is most of the present utes could do with unrated suspension.

Got there · Member

Hi Len

Maybe a bit late in responding. I have a 2013 BT50 dual cab towing an Australian Off Road Quantum (ATM of 2200kg ). AS this is an off road van with a DO35 hitch no WDHitch was used.

Our springs inverted with a varying towball weight of 180-230kg ( depending on water tank filling as one is in front of the axle and one behind ). When this happened I was not overweight ( no where near it ) and did the weigh bridge thing to confirm. While on this trip every and I mean every BT50 ute towing anything was stopped and I crawled underneath to look. Guys using WDH were mostly OK those not - most were inverted. And there were many.

When this happened we had not be on any off or dirt roads.

Many other brands of utes were the same.

They all have made the length of their springs so long to give a car like ride that they cant tow much.

All Mazda would do was put on 'helper' springs but it was only just OK.

In the end $2300.00 later TJM fitted new suspension all round. Best thing I did.

As a side note I was going to put on a 300kg constant spring setup but the TJM guys had only just done a BT50 with a 500kg set the week before and all agreed it was a good ride when empty.

I chose this option and I reckon it was as good as the original ( when right ).

All these dual cab utes ( apart from the Hilux ) over state their legal towing ability.

You cannot tow a 3500kg rig and be under your GCM - its impossible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Neil

dogbox · Guru

Got there wrote:
Hi Len

Maybe a bit late in responding. I have a 2013 BT50 dual cab towing an Australian Off Road Quantum (ATM of 2200kg ). AS this is an off road van with a DO35 hitch no WDHitch was used.
Our springs inverted with a varying towball weight of 180-230kg ( depending on water tank filling as one is in front of the axle and one behind ). When this happened I was not overweight ( no where near it ) and did the weigh bridge thing to confirm. While on this trip every and I mean every BT50 ute towing anything was stopped and I crawled underneath to look. Guys using WDH were mostly OK those not - most were inverted. And there were many.
When this happened we had not be on any off or dirt roads.
Many other brands of utes were the same.
They all have made the length of their springs so long to give a car like ride that they cant tow much.
All Mazda would do was put on 'helper' springs but it was only just OK.
In the end $2300.00 later TJM fitted new suspension all round. Best thing I did.

As a side note I was going to put on a 300kg constant spring setup but the TJM guys had only just done a BT50 with a 500kg set the week before and all agreed it was a good ride when empty.
I chose this option and I reckon it was as good as the original ( when right ).

All these dual cab utes ( apart from the Hilux ) over state their legal towing ability.
You cannot tow a 3500kg rig and be under your GCM - its impossible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Neil

you can tow 3500 kgs but you can't have anything in the tug except the driver an a tank of fuel an tow bar

Stl · Senior Member

Hi one and all, thanks for the input, it's the principle of the matter, they are still advertising what it's meant to do, the add even shows 3 people in the back ( would have to assume 5 people all up) I'm well aware it will cost well over $2,000.00 to install the suspension needed to make it do what they advertise it to do, but I want them to do it!!like I said it's the principle which is stated under fair trading act that they can't make false, or misleading statements. Will keep all posted with outcome.

Len

Stl · Senior Member

Whoops the photo is with vehicle completely empty. No weight on tow ball, basically extra 100 kilos over Kerb weight, second battery, canopy and full of fuel, that's it.

Len

Stl · Senior Member

Whoops the photo is with vehicle completely empty. No weight on tow ball, basically extra 100 kilos over Kerb weight, second battery, canopy and full of fuel, that's it.

Len

Baz421 · Guru

Stl wrote:
Hi one and all, thanks for the input, it's the principle of the matter, they are still advertising what it's meant to do, the add even shows 3 people in the back ( would have to assume 5 people all up) I'm well aware it will cost well over $2,000.00 to install the suspension needed to make it do what they advertise it to do, but I want them to do it!!like I said it's the principle which is stated under fair trading act that they can't make false, or misleading statements. Will keep all posted with outcome.
Len

Len the other phrase to be used when dealing with situations like this is "not fit for purpose" especially when you follow their guidelines.

Stl · Senior Member

Thanks Baz. Will keep that in mind and any help from anyone else will be much appreciated.

Len

Woody n Sue · Guru

Speak to consumer affairs also check out VCAT or equivalent in your state I wish you luck stick at it if everyone did it would change but they know that people will just buy aftermarket springs at their personal expense.
It's not new my patrol now 22 years old was the same on the front couldn't get Nissan to fix it dealer did what he could but Nissan were not interested .

Stl · Senior Member

Hi Desert Dweller, thanks for the input and I understand what your saying but I don't agree with that, trucks with GVM LIMIT DONT DRIVE AROUND HALf LOADED. Tray trucks of any weight, semis, mc's are loaded to the max load limit at least 5o% of the time and if you get a back load more than that. That's how they are sold to carry x amount of weight not if you want it to last, only half load it or if you want it do do what we say it should do, you will have to at your expense up grade the suspension. The point is the vehicle should do what they claim it should do NO BUTS.

Len.

Baz421 · Guru

Stl wrote:
Hi Desert Dweller, thanks for the input and I understand what your saying but I don't agree with that, trucks with GVM LIMIT DONT DRIVE AROUND HALf LOADED. Tray trucks of any weight, semis, mc's are loaded to the max load limit at least 5o% of the time and if you get a back load more than that. That's how they are sold to carry x amount of weight not if you want it to last, only half load it or if you want it do do what we say it should do, you will have to at your expense up grade the suspension. The point is the vehicle should do what they claim it should do NO BUTS.
Len.

Agree Len

Mr Growly · Newbie

Hi Len, I'm new to the forum, but totally agree that it's a fair trading issue. I would love to hear from anyone who has had success taking on Mazda. I have gone to fair trading and next step is the tribunal. They certainly do try to give the run around. I have a slide on camper on the back of my new bt50 and I am arguing that I am still 300 kgs under the GVM my low beam dazzles oncoming traffic making it illegal to drive at night. Mazda will only look at the distance between the rear spring and bumper rubber. They have tried to tell me that my camper needed to be connected direct to the chassis to be legal and that the over hang of the camper (needed to open the back) was too long...both arguments nonsense/. Anyhow I'm sorting the papers for the tribunal and like you say it's the principal. I bought in good faith with the sales person bragging about the PAYLOAD but like everyone says it just doesn't cut it. Best advice I can find is to look at upgrading the rear suspension. Good luck...I'll let you know how I go.

Mr Growly