Freedom Camp Abusers

JayCee · Member

Freedom Camp Abusers

The Phantom · Guru

JayCee wrote:
I am in receipt of the following email from the CEO of Leonora Shire, West Aust. This sort of behaviour adversely affects our cherished way of life:
I refer to the RV campsite recently created near the Gwalia Museum. Unfortunately, non-conforming vehicles are abusing the privilege that currently exist and when confronted by Council staff, the visitors/tourists become argumentative, eventually leaving the site but at the same time spreading the message via social media that Leonora/Gwalia is not the place to visit because of harassment by Council staff. This is of great concern to Council, the Leonora/Gwalia Community and of course, staff dealing with this matter.
Many travellers understand the rules and move off without further comment. However those few that are prepared to voice their opinion are causing great harm. I feel for the staff that need to confront these people. If it was me dealing with the issue, I wouldnt have the patience!
It concerns me that I may need to instruct the Ranger and other authorised officers to visit this site more frequently to check for non-conforming vehicles and then wait for them to move off. I shouldnt have to do this. Seems harsh, but some of these people appear to want everything for nothing. What do I do - close this RV site down?

JayCee, I note your name and the fact that the CEO of the Leonora Shire has requested your advice.

You're not the JC of biblical fame, are you?

The Phantom

Sheba · Guru

The Phantom wrote:

JayCee, I note your name and the fact that the CEO of the Leonora Shire has requested your advice.
You're not the JC of biblical fame, are you?

The Phantom

I too would be interested to know why your advice is requested JayCee. Just who are you , to have that much Authority ?

Cheers,

Sheba.

Sheba · Guru

Sorry, double-up.

Cheers,

Sheba.

-- Edited by Sheba on Thursday 9th of July 2015 07:52:54 PM

brickies · Guru

I don't read that Jaycee was ask for his advice , I read that he has a copy of the CEO email , Maybe it fell of the local photo copy machine

Plendo · Guru

I don't think we should be picking on the messenger, we should just be happy that JayCee was in a position to get the information, and to share it here on the forum.

The real question we should be asking is what can we do to address this type of behavior as it threatens campsites all over the country?

The Phantom · Guru

Plendo, I don't think there is anything you can do. There are far more Grey Nomads on the road than on this Forum. I guess a fair percentage of them are your usual know-it-alls who will not be dictated to, another sizeable group will be those that think screwing everyone and everything is their god given right and then there will be the group that just don't give a rat's A... In my travels I have seen ample evidence of all 3 classifications.

You are pushing it uphill with a fork if you think you can change these attitudes. For every 50 people that are intent on doing the right thing there will always be a slug that comes along tomorrow and spoils it for others.

The Phantom

Ozzie_Traveller · Senior Member

G'day all

I have to agree with the above sentiments ... we don't need to shoot the messanger ~ even though the OP has not fully identified how s/he came into having such a message

I believe that it behoves ALL of us to do our best to "protect" those sites that are made available to us, and -if- those sites are designated "for fully self-contained vehicles only" then we each need to assist the town by politely chatting to non-conforming vehicles

I make a point of doing the above whenever I see the need to do so, having a polite chat, explaining the difference between having a toilet vs squatting & leaving toilet paper in the grass, etc etc and asking them to leave and go to a caravan park [or elsewhere] where toilets are provided

I do not know this explicit site, but if the council is really concerned, it's a fairly easy matter to advertise here or similar forums for a volunteer camp host for a while. It's done at dozens of other places, esp throughout WA, so I don't see any sort of problem here

Phil

JayCee · Member

Settle folks! I was given the email quite legitimately by my bro. who has been appointed an honorary 'roving ambassador for Kalgoorlie' and he asked me to spread the word around any caravan/camping forums I was subscribed to. The CEO was asking his (not my) advice. The RV site is a new one and the CEO is new to this stuff. Good news tho', my bro. tells me that later today the Shire of Leonora has now made the site FREE to FULLY SELF CONTAINED RVs - meaning NO DRAIN HOSES OR BUCKETS ETC. This requirement is becoming more widespread nowadays and is the future of freedom camping. We should be doing this as good stewards of any freedom camp sites anyway - 'leave no trace but footprints'.

Leonora/Gwalia is a very friendly location for a stop-over in the WA Goldfields and was one of the first towns in the Goldfields to embrace the RV Friendly scheme. Such towns are worthy of our support and above all our courtesy.

An email to Councils in thanks for a cheap stop-over never goes astray, nor does a word of thanks to businesses where we spend our dollars. After all, they are among the ratepayers who pay for the benefits we receive and like to be told that their gesture is worthwhile. Wouldn't you like to receive positive feedback?

Phantom, if we don't keep at trying to stop poor behaviour, our cherished way of life is doomed. It is encumbent upon all of us to do our bit. Remember - 'people power' and 'the power of one'. Don't give up - don't let the 'Richard Craniums' of this world win out!

shekon · Guru

Golly cannot believe the immature responses to this posting.

I actually stayed at this site during my trip through the area. It was wonderful. Loved it. I was hesitant as the reports were concerning that had been posted on wikicamps regarding staff and the area. I found the staff informative, friendly and helpful. I was asked if fully self contained and the by-laws sign clearly state this must be the case. I am so not a problem. The museum worth the visit, afternoon tea at Hoover House superb. The old Gwalia township wonderful to explore.

Thank you J C for posting. Seems a lot of folk on here complain when a site is closed or charged for, and yet when feedback is given still complain. It would be a shame to see it closed but can understand why they will do if abused. We all need to follow the rules, that's life. Deal with it!

WA is a great spot for free camping and there are so many, yet folk still abuse it by leaving rubbish, overstaying time limits etc, and then wonder why they closed.

We can all help by talking to others on our travels regarding commonsense and rules.

rockylizard · Guru

The Phantom wrote:
Plendo, I don't think there is anything you can do. There are far more Grey Nomads on the road than on this Forum. I guess a fair percentage of them are your usual know-it-alls who will not be dictated to, another sizeable group will be those that think screwing everyone and everything is their god given right and then there will be the group that just don't give a rat's A... In my travels I have seen ample evidence of all 3 classifications.
You are pushing it uphill with a fork if you think you can change these attitudes. For every 50 people that are intent on doing the right thing there will always be a slug that comes along tomorrow and spoils it for others.
The Phantom

Gday...

Unfortunately, I am in agreement with Phantom's comments - with the exception that I really think that my observations are more like -

..... for every one sensible, caring, responsible, complying traveller there are 50 "slugs" spoiling it for others.......

Apart from "the world owes me everything" attitude of these "slugs" that cause these problems, they have been brainwashed that the 'grey nomad' life is to wander carefree doing whatever one likes ... wherever one likes - "I have worked all my life, paid my taxes and this is my right!"

Additionally, many have simply yet to achieve the exulted heights of being fully self-contained but still want to frequent sites within, or very close to, towns and communities for their 'attractions' - without contributing to the cost of such facilities.

Until this expectation that RVers can continue to wander wherever they wish and park and sleep wherever they want - without having to pay for such facility - then this problem will continue to fester.

The world has changed, for the better or worse, and there is a constantly shrinking availability of a nice site near shops in a town where our free-loading counterparts can put out their deck chair. The solution is to camp away from a town and then visit it when you need the amenity of the community - shops, attractions, fuel, etc.

The number of members on this forum ... and perhaps all the caravanning/travelling forums combined ... are an extremely small percentage of RVers actually on the road - either part-time or full-time. "Our" voice is minuscule.

I am afraid I am not going to be in a position to 'politely advise' a fellow-traveller they should not leave grey water on the ground in such overnight stops as I don't stop at sites where 'self-contained' is the rule. If I want to be somewhere and those rules are in place, I simply stay at the van park or showground - or go back into the bush to a more pleasant site.

Perhaps, ultimately, these 'self-contained only' sites may be all there is available - but thankfully, I think there is a HUGE percentage of this fantastic, wide, brown, beautiful country that I can visit and stop in and at, that will always want life-giving water on their dry, dusty ground and to help their struggling trees to survive as well as providing some additional financial assistance into the local community's businesses.

Cheers - and love the bush - John

brickies · Guru

Phantom and Rockylizard thank you both for your insight of people on the road and you are spot on

thedes · Veteran Member

Why all the negative comments? JayCee wasn't saying his advice or opinion was asked for? Some of you need to lighten up and enjoy this awesome country

I'm sure some of you would whinge if you won 2nd div in the lotto

The Phantom · Guru

thedes wrote:
Why all the negative comments? JayCee wasn't saying his advice or opinion was asked for? Some of you need to lighten up and enjoy this awesome country I'm sure some of you would whinge if you won 2nd div in the lotto

The comments are not negative in the least. They are an accurate description of the realities of the travelling public.

Too often I hear crap about "this awesome country" and continue to see so called responsible people destroying it.

Take off your rose tinted glasses, my friend, and see the world for what it really is.

The Phantom

thedes · Veteran Member

rockylizard · Guru

thedes wrote:
Why all the negative comments? JayCee wasn't saying his advice or opinion was asked for? Some of you need to lighten up and enjoy this awesome country I'm sure some of you would whinge if you won 2nd div in the lotto

Gday...

There are no negative comments - simply observations of far too many travellers with little concern for anything other than their own world.

The question posed by the OP was what could be done to stop these useless RVers who continually flout the rules and consideration of communities.

My comments were merely highlighting that those of us on this forum, no matter how well meaning we are, have little chance to influence the majority of the thoughtless travellers - even if they did actually listen to us.

It should be remembered there are, or have been, members of this forum who have openly and proudly reported their willingness, and schemes, to overstay at campsites - tricking/deceiving the ranger or volunteer who is keeping tabs on the camp.

I believe, that the 'grey nomad lifestyle' so glorified by many of us, has grown in attractiveness to the general populous, and far too many believe it is their 'right' to buy a van and 4x4, hit the road, and camp at no cost wherever and whenever they like. That is NOT a negative comment but merely an observation that has been reinforced over the past six years.

Ultimately, these unthinking, selfish RVers are certainly going to cruel it for all of us.

Cheers - John

thedes · Veteran Member

I totally agree with you John and that was why I commented

seems to be a few that think the world owes them

at the end of the day everything has a price

blaze · Guru

yes John, you speak a lot of sense. I have also seen what you see and at times have been guilty of some offences like giving a tree a drink and have parked in truck bays but to the best of my ability I leave only footprints. I am also quite happy to pay high prices in cp if thats where I need to be or want to be. Nothing in this life comes for free, there is a cost of some sort for every thing.
Not seeing neg comments, I do see different ideals
cheers
blaze

KFT · Guru

brickies wrote:
Phantom and Rockylizard thank you both for your insight of people on the road and you are spot on

I will second the motion

done dreaming · Senior Member

I know i am probably going off topic but what is wrong with puting your grey water on a tree or in the bush.When i lived in Townsville it was a council requirement for properties without sewerage to run their grey water onto the garden or put it in a holding tank and use a sub pump to put thru your sprinklers.How many vans are really self sufficient?and being a cynic did the rangers ask the people to move before or after they had spent money in the town. I think we are all becoming a little too precious with enviromental thinking as i'm yet to see ferral animals abiding by the rules.PS i leave no trace except grey water emptied from my bucket into the bush.

RobandFlip · Senior Member

Hi to all,
I have a couple of questions for those who are completely self contained with grey water facilities. (not black water)
Are your grey water tanks/receptacles permanently attached to your vans? I have heard they must be attached, is this true?
On average, what quantity, approximately, do they hold assuming they come in different sizes?
If they are attached to the van, how do you empty them?
Where do you empty them?
As grey water becomes very toxic in a short period of time, what is added to the tank to stop this happening?
Your responses would be very much appreciated, thanks.
cheers,
Robyn

brickies · Guru

Done dreaming if someone is offering a free camp which they have rule you play by there rules or move on

JayCee · Member

All requirements for self-containment sites that I know of are mostly within townsites and so grey water running on the ground is both against local health regulations and unsightly for the townspeople and visitors. It must be disposed of at a dump point, which is always provided at an RV Friendly Town under the CMCA scheme. Some Nat. Pks. I have visited have the same health requirements, but only a few. I agree that out in the bush, collecting grey water in a bucket and pouring on trees or bushes shouldn't be a problem. Even if food particles are in it, the birds, ants and other animal soon get rid of it. Generally the stay allowed is a day or two, so it doesn't get a chance to become fetid. My grey water tank is portable and sealed so no overflow and is only 25 litres capacity which I have found good for 1-2 days for sink and handbasin water only. Any showers require it to be emptied in between. No manufacturer of standard vans that I know of are building vans with grey water tanks, only customised vans upon request and extra cost. Motorhomes have both grey and black water tanks as standard.

JayDee · Guru

J.C ( and that is not Jaycee)
J.C if we don't keep spreading the word about the good and the bad and the ugly of freedom camping the situation will become worse. It is forum like this one that will spread the word that the bush camps are there for us all to enjoy, and as such we must protect the benefit.
I for one will be sending off an email to the,
CEO of Leonora Shire, West Aust.
requesting that they allow the site to remain open.
The old 80 - 20 rule applies in this most scenarios.
80% or more will do the right thing.
Let's support and hopefully improve that number.
Jay&Dee

RobandFlip · Senior Member

Thanks JayCee for that info. We have a custom caravan and there is room to install a 90 litre tank if we need to. We have generally only camped in the bush and watered the trees etc. We are careful about removing food scraps/bits from grey water before release. We are using enviro friendly detergent and bath wash. The info you provided will go on file for future reference, thanks again.

Cheers,

Robyn

Baz421 · Guru

RobandFlip wrote:
Hi to all,
I have a couple of questions for those who are completely self contained with grey water facilities. (not black water)
Are your grey water tanks/receptacles permanently attached to your vans? I have heard they must be attached, is this true?
On average, what quantity, approximately, do they hold assuming they come in different sizes?
If they are attached to the van, how do you empty them?
Where do you empty them?
As grey water becomes very toxic in a short period of time, what is added to the tank to stop this happening?
Your responses would be very much appreciated, thanks.
cheers,
Robyn

Hi Guys we have a 60L tank bolted under the rear of the van. Closed off with a ball valve. If we can't empty in CP down the drain we go bush and feed a tree.

Doesn't become toxic. Older ozzies used grey water on gardens all over the place and sometimes held in tanks and pits for ages - no problem.

brickies · Guru

Point is that the free camp in a built up area may not want it spilling on there hard surface causing a stink and puddles everywhere .

RobandFlip · Senior Member

Thanks Baz421, your advice taken on board, we will investigate further before our next trip. (should be now, but health issues have kept us at home this year - so far).
cheers,
Robyn

Peter1059 · Senior Member

JayCee wrote:
All requirements for self-containment sites that I know of are mostly within townsites and so grey water running on the ground is both against local health regulations and unsightly for the townspeople and visitors. It must be disposed of at a dump point, which is always provided at an RV Friendly Town under the CMCA scheme. Some Nat. Pks. I have visited have the same health requirements, but only a few. I agree that out in the bush, collecting grey water in a bucket and pouring on trees or bushes shouldn't be a problem. Even if food particles are in it, the birds, ants and other animal soon get rid of it. Generally the stay allowed is a day or two, so it doesn't get a chance to become fetid. My grey water tank is portable and sealed so no overflow and is only 25 litres capacity which I have found good for 1-2 days for sink and handbasin water only. Any showers require it to be emptied in between. No manufacturer of standard vans that I know of are building vans with grey water tanks, only customised vans upon request and extra cost. Motorhomes have both grey and black water tanks as standard.

Hi Guys

J C has raised a really good point, it is in our interest to actually contact the local authority when you have enjoyed a low cost or free camp. I currently work for a local Council and I can attest that these positive comments do not go astray. Councils get so much negative comments from virtually everyone that any positive comments are welcomed. It also reinforces what they are trying to achieve in their area. Some local authorities do not have a lot of cash so when they build these facilities including dump points etc this comes at a high cost to them. also when you are in the local shops etc politely let them know that you are visiting and where your staying. Anyway it is polite to say thank you

greyhoundtom · Senior Member

JayCee wrote:

Hi Guys

J C has raised a really good point, it is in our interest to actually contact the local authority when you have enjoyed a low cost or free camp. I currently work for a local Council and I can attest that these positive comments do not go astray. Councils get so much negative comments from virtually everyone that any positive comments are welcomed. It also reinforces what they are trying to achieve in their area. Some local authorities do not have a lot of cash so when they build these facilities including dump points etc this comes at a high cost to them. also when you are in the local shops etc politely let them know that you are visiting and where your staying. Anyway it is polite to say thank you

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