trying to get a Fifth-Wheeler made.

iana · Guru

trying to get a Fifth-Wheeler made.

Bruce and Bev · Guru

trying to deal with the RV industry - that's what you are doing wrong!!

Especially from Perth (yep, my base). In the CP we're at in Melbourne at the moment a small manufacturer has just delivered a 35 ftr 5th wheeler ready for a local customer. The owner is getting a new ute and the conversion done.

If you want me to try find out the makers name - PM me and I'll go have a nose and find out for you

Cheers Bruce

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Nothing!
It seems to be the norm these days Ian. Not that it's good cos it's far from it. Good service these days is very hard to find. Even if you spend the $$$$$$ your are talking about. They probably know builders are in the minority so say, tuff, take it or leave it.

I'm sure you have but have you looked around at 2nd hand 5th's?

Dougwe · Chief one feather

....bigB has a big nose to Ian biggrin

iana · Guru

Bruce and Bev wrote:

Especially from Perth (yep, my base). In the CP we're at in Melbourne at the moment a small manufacturer has just delivered a 35 ftr 5th wheeler ready for a local customer. The owner is getting a new ute and the conversion done.

Cheers Bruce

Thanks Bruce and Bev. One of the manufacturers is in Melbourne, and its probably the one you.re talking about. I'm not after a 35 footer, was after 22 but to get in all the items it has stretched to 26. However compared to a std. caravan that is not too bad a length.

Phillipn · Guru

iana wrote:
Hardly a week goes by on this forum where someone makes a remark about caravan stability, balance or hitch weight problems. Probably 12 months ago when we sold the camper van, I (we) decided to go straight for the 5 wheeler. One of the problems with 5 wheelers apart from lack of storage, is the height of the bedroom over the goose neck and accessibility especially for the older set.
By going for a ball & socket type hitch on a tray top ute this problem can be over come. But the number of manufacturers using this type came down to two. Now I have been all this time working with them on layouts and inclusions, length etc. The effort one company has put into this is near nil, and the other has been slow.
I can remember many years ago I wanted to buy a car, and a salesman drove a car I was interested in 300km for me to look at. At my work I do many purchases and get responses pretty well straight away or at least with in a week or else they get ditched.
Now we are talking about a $100,000 deal here, what am I doing wrong?

Check out www.winjana5thwheelers.com.au in Toowoomba They make a 5th wheeler with the bed at floor level the same as a 20 ft caravan. Includes toilet and shower.

-- Edited by Phillipn on Sunday 21st of June 2015 07:59:51 PM

iana · Guru

Dougwe wrote:
Nothing!
It seems to be the norm these days Ian. Not that it's good cos it's far from it. Good service these days is very hard to find. Even if you spend the $$$$$$ your are talking about. They probably know builders are in the minority so say, tuff, take it or leave it.

I'm sure you have but have you looked around at 2nd hand 5th's?

It sure is frustrating, as you can imagine so much thought goes into getting it right.

Yes I have looked at the second hand market, but the 5 wheelers up for sale mostly have access problems to the bed area. two couples we have been to see, selling second hand Macquarie's, were selling because their bodies were complaining.

Both companies have rung me up at work and wanted to chat, and me with oil and grease up to my elbows really couldn't take in what they were saying. I prefer emails, as you have it all in writing.

Once I have a good idea of the specs, etc. I intend to fly across and see them. Its just the response time that has me wondering.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Have you looked at the "Travelhome" 5th's at all Ian. I had a look a few years ago and found the bed area pretty good. I just decided not what I wanted and a bit out of the price range.

iana · Guru

Phillipn wrote:

Check out www.winjana5thwheelers.com.au in Toowoomba They make a 5th wheeler with the bed at floor level the same as a 20 ft caravan. Includes toilet and shower.

-- Edited by Phillipn on Sunday 21st of June 2015 07:59:51 PM

Winjana, Ventura etc.etc. all use the De-Angelo style hitch. This suits a well body on a ute, but I a have gone and brought a tray top. I know the model you are talking about, they have made the space over the goose neck storage. It may be that I have to contact these other companies and see if they will come to the party,

Phillipn · Guru

iana wrote:
Phillipn wrote:

Check out www.winjana5thwheelers.com.au in Toowoomba They make a 5th wheeler with the bed at floor level the same as a 20 ft caravan. Includes toilet and shower.

-- Edited by Phillipn on Sunday 21st of June 2015 07:59:51 PM
Winjana, Ventura etc.etc. all use the De-Angelo style hitch. This suits a well body on a ute, but I a have gone and brought a tray top. I know the model you are talking about, they have made the space over the goose neck storage. It may be that I have to contact these other companies and see if they will come to the party,

The company was called Venture, name change to Winjana. Same owner. I have a caravan the same floor plan as the 5th wheeler. Why don`t you contact Andrew Brennan on 0746383576, I am sure he could attach a hitch to suite your needs.

PeterS · Veteran Member

I second Philipn in this! Contact Andrew & he will sort out something for you!

Izabarack · Guru

Southern Cross at Loganholme in QLD do a low rise model. Typically the living area is sited on the goosneck leaving full height towards the rear and an island bed. The problem with really high step ups for the goose neck seems to be with the manufacturers and consumers taking what is offered, rather than telling the builders what they want. In my attempts to get a low rise fiver built, the builders I approached simply would not consider doing anything different to what they already knew how to do or were already producing. A 70mm ball hitch can be mounted at the level of the chassis rails and allow for a very low (about 300mm) step up in the gooseneck. Pedders distributes ball mount tow fixtures that can be mounted so the ball flange is level with the top of a ute chassis rails. Winjana, Ventura etc.etc. all use the De-Angelo style hitch. A straight out refusal to even consider different hitch heights and a very small gooseneck rise was the reason several builders (including some already mentioned) were crossed off my list.

I suggest you stick to your guns and get what suits you; you're paying for it so builders should serve you if they want the business.

Iza

iana · Guru

Hi Izabarack, its really good that someone actually read what I wrote in the thread. Do you happen to know of any advantages if any the De-Angelo hitch offers over the ball and socket, While I have searched, no-one actually states any advantage. The only thing and I'm guessing is it can take a higher trailer weight. Because the trailers I am talking about are light they are probably an "over engineer" for the job.
The spec's I am asking for are not over the top. Q-bed in the goose neck area, ensuite etc. next the kitchen with just a cook top and grill, no oven, and then two recliner chairs at the back with enough room for them to actually recline. No slide out, no electric steps, no electric awning and have even asked for steel wheel rims rather than alloy, and of course a split system inverter air-con. The usual solar and water tanks. In other words simple and suitable for free camping.
The one hiccup is storage space, and most van builders rely on the lounges for internal storage, by fitting recliners this space is not there. By having the bed at one end and the lounge at the other, and conveniences central, it means we as a couple can still have time alone. Don't tell me some of you people out there don't need this, because I have read between the lines and you do. If the van was for short period camps this would not be necessary, but we intend to sell house and make it our home.
Southerncross are one of the manufacturers, but their effort to date has been woeful. They want me to fly up to Brisbane every time I have a question. I want to have everything pretty well mapped out before the visit, so I have a clear idea of what I want, what I am getting and what questions to ask. It seems that they don't want to spend time with emails etc.
Of course if there are any manufacturers out there will to take it up let me know. I have however texted the owner of the other company who have a pretty good van with all the storage (under floor) and have ticked all the boxes, while I have not had a reply (how had is a text message saying "will do") I expect the quote will be soon to come. What I don't understand is you would think businesses would be really chasing any projects they can get.

Woody n Sue · Guru

Iana for my two bobs worth stick with the ball hitch that is my preference however we bought second hand as this is our first van and it came with the turntable style hitch the biggest fault with these is when you go over side ways undulations when turning like when getting off the road into rest areas ect there is no or very little ability to roll sideways so this means that either your tow veichle chassis or worse still your van chassis has to twist this cannot be good for the van fit out sides roof the lot will have twist from the force applied, sure the springs will take some of the twist but they still apply a lot of force to the chassis while doing so, some will tell you it is easier to hitch because you don't have to be quite a accurate reversing up to the turntable style we can see ours through the rear window as its a single cab ute but it's easy to put in a reversing camera if you have a twin cab if needed in due course I will convert mine to ball but I want to build a new tray first and are considering extending the chassis about 30 or 40 cm so I can turn as short as I need without worrying about the van hitting the hurdle on the tray,

Paul John · Member

Hi Iana Yes I am with woody n sue regarding use of ball hitch. 99.9% of horse float fivers use a ball hitch with great success and australian conpliant to 9 ton. We are at present building a 28ft fiver and would not consider using any other type of hitch. Dont give up on your search as when you are finally travelling out on the highways with your fiver on behind it will all seem worthwile. Regards Paul.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

As a CV owner and traveller I have found this thread very interesting, thanks all. It's also good to see people that have actually got one of these "Ball Hitches" on their "Fiver". I have often wondered why the builders of these 5th wheelers don't use the ball type all the time.

Many moons ago "Fiver" had a completely different meaning. Funny how time changes things.

Keep Safe all.

diggerop · Senior Member

Hullo Iana,

I'm not sure what you mean by a De-Angelo style hitch as they have a few different designs. We have a 24ft 5th wheeler with a D'Angelo folding ball and socket hitch on a tray back ute.

http://www.dangelo.com.au/fifth-wheel-assembly.asp?product=Kingpin

The van has a full head high roof in the bedroom, only one normal size step up into the bed room. shower and toilet between the bedroom and kitchen/lounge so there is about as much as separate areas as you can get in a van. Queen size bed. Lots of storage space, inside and underneath. No slideouts. No gas.

http://www.roswaltrailers.com.au/wheel-caravan.html

Boss N Me · Member

There is a market in Australia for a good 5th wheel manufacturer. We thought we'd found that when we built ours but they closed some time later.

If you're happy spending big sums on a U.S. tow vehicle ($90k+) then importing is still an option. It's the weight that's a big issue as far as I'm concerned. We kept ours just under 2,500kg tare so we could tow with an Isuzu.

Jayco do have a few options. Saw one of their smaller units, with single slide out at Kingscliff a few weeks ago. They were towing with a Mazda BT-50. Looked very nice.

banjo · Senior Member

Iana

I can share you're frustration but in the end it will be well worthwhile, I do know of the two companies you mention and as you know we have a 5'er built by one of them.

The company in question charge like wounded bulls, yes, but you do get the quality in the end, if it helps at all I do know Peter the owner is currently overseas till July so maybe that is the issue ?

I am currently awaiting a price to have ours modded slightly to fit a bigger Samsung fridge and am still awaitng 3 weeks later ! but I do know that Peter runs his ship pretty tight and can only compliment him on that, but he cannot be in two places at once and I believe the factory is pretty flat out order wise.

They do not employ heaps of staff or any "monkeys" either so that is another issue, but gives far better quality control.

Sorry I don't wish to sound like I'm making excuses for the company, and I know this doesn't help you, but persevere as I'm sure it will be worth it in the end.

-- Edited by banjo on Monday 22nd of June 2015 02:30:29 PM

iana · Guru

diggerop wrote:
Hullo Iana,
I'm not sure what you mean by a De-Angelo style hitch as they have a few different designs. We have a 24ft 5th wheeler with a D'Angelo folding ball and socket hitch on a tray back ute.
http://www.dangelo.com.au/fifth-wheel-assembly.asp?product=Kingpin

The van has a full head high roof in the bedroom, only one normal size step up into the bed room. shower and toilet between the bedroom and kitchen/lounge so there is about as much as separate areas as you can get in a van. Queen size bed. Lots of storage space, inside and underneath. No slideouts. No gas.

http://www.roswaltrailers.com.au/wheel-caravan.html

Yes point taken, on enquiry, I think the name should be "Turn Table" and "Quick hitch". But reading articles on the net and magazines, its very confusing, the ball and socket is also referred to as the goose neck hitch, but I like to think of the goose neck as the part of the trailer over the bed of the prime mover.

I have looked at the Roswal trailers site on the net and have seen the fifth wheeler they have made, which I suppose is yours. I suppose I could send them an email to sound them out.

Woody n Sue · Guru

Digerop I have looked at your link and to me that is the same only inverted it's not a ball and socket it's a pin and latch and would not have the side way travel that a ball would have I cant over state the importance i place on this sideways movement maybe it's just me but I can't see how twisting the van can be good for it long term

Izabarack · Guru

iana wrote:
Do you happen to know of any advantages if any the De-Angelo hitch offers over the ball and socket.

No advantages to my goal of a low rise gooseneck in the basic design of the chassis I want. As said earlier, I want a connection point as close as practical (articulation limits) to a level at the top of my ute's chassis rails. I'm pretty sure the articulation limits of the typical turntable hitch to be closer to <10 degrees while the ball can articulate at up to 23 degrees. This is a huge difference when intending to go even a little off road into uneven parking opportunities.

My dealings with two of the builders mentioned so far went no further because one just could not (would not) consider a different chassis design and the downstream changes to standard to fit the low rise. The other would do a much better quality job (my judgement) but much more expensive and over 12 months wait.

Storage - my ideas and desired layout had a tunnel boot at the front under the head of the island bed and another one at the rear, large enough and tall enough to store a push bike. A low rise gooseneck with 150 mm chassis rails on airbags would also allow for all the heavy bits to be low and central and close to the axle. Underfloor storage is also a possibility.

Don't give up. You may have to get a bit more involved in the planning and construction of what you want. I found that builders seemed to take the attitude that they had a process, it worked for them, and doing something different just for the business was not for them.

Iza

Woody n Sue · Guru

Iana I am with Banjo on this if we decide to build a new one we I'll be going here, a good mate of mine has one of peters vans and has nothing but praise for him and his vans and his van would be something like seven years old by now they are worth the wait

diggerop · Senior Member

Sorry if I caused any confusion with that link to D-Angelo. The animation does show a pin, but it can also come with a folding ball which is what I have. In that animation there is some numbers at the bottom, click on 5 as that is a pic of the ball.

Screen Shot 2015-06-23 at 10.12.27 am.png

Woody n Sue · Guru

Is don is good
Is ball is good
Musta had a mans look at that website
Darn off to the the naughty room AGAIN

iana · Guru

Dougwe wrote:
Have you looked at the "Travelhome" 5th's at all Ian. I had a look a few years ago and found the bed area pretty good. I just decided not what I wanted and a bit out of the price range.

Hi Dougwe,

Yes I did check out the Macquarie " Travelhome" 24-25's. The layout is pretty much what I want, but the bed area is still a climb, and it is more for single beds. We are both adamant about having a couple of recliner chairs (that can be reclined!), and I don't know if you noticed, but they have a boot for storage. which is also part of the bench seat running across the back.

Take out the bench seat and you have done away with your storage space.

iana · Guru

Boss N Me wrote:
There is a market in Australia for a good 5th wheel manufacturer. We thought we'd found that when we built ours but they closed some time later.

If you're happy spending big sums on a U.S. tow vehicle ($90k+) then importing is still an option. It's the weight that's a big issue as far as I'm concerned. We kept ours just under 2,500kg tare so we could tow with an Isuzu.

Jayco do have a few options. Saw one of their smaller units, with single slide out at Kingscliff a few weeks ago. They were towing with a Mazda BT-50. Looked very nice.

Hi Boss N Me,

What the Australian RV market needs is a wake up call that there is an alternative to a caravan and a motor home. The more this thread stays active, the more people will be aware.

Friends of ours who we were to go to the Brisbane c show but we pulled out, sent us brochures and magazines from the show. One of the magazines is full of Jayco. To promote their fifth wheeler the title is " The Big Wheelers" this is just what the new buyer looking for a smaller van wants to read. What,s more Jayco have recently released a 22ft 5 wheeler and their salesmen don't know about it.

The next article written I think by Jayco is called "The right choice" this is for new buyers again, and they don't even list a fifth wheeler into the equation. Its just caravans or motor homes.

I look at my email (Thanks Andrea) and John of Southerncross is promoting their 18ft fifth wheeler, this would have a tow length of a 12ft caravan. So there has to be resistance by the caravan manufacturer's to promote a safer, vehicle healthier and easier to tow, turn and back vehicle.

I guess it boils down to, you go to look at RV vehicles, you have a tow bar fitted salesman think's,"If I can pull this off" this Dud can tow it away, sale done and dusted.

We have to stop thinking "Big American Units" and think smaller, safer and easier Australian units.

iana · Guru

banjo wrote:

The company in question charge like wounded bulls, yes, but you do get the quality in the end, if it helps at all I do know Peter the owner is currently overseas till July so maybe that is the issue ?

Yes I may have to eat a bit of Humble pie on this going back on my emails now I see Peter is in America.
However I did write and ask how the quote was going and they said it would be done soon (several weeks ago) there is no reason why they couldn't have dropped me a line, letting me know there would be a delay.
The thing is I am not asking for an exact quote, just an estimate so we can work on our books.
They have come up with a nice layout which suits me. The storage issue is taken care of, under the false floor.
There was a production slot available pre Christmas, and I was hopping to reserve it, after flying across and sorting details. I see time running out.

Woody n Sue · Guru

Iana I agree a lot of he time whenever a 5th wheeler is mentioned it conjures up an image of those huge yank tanks towing a house on wheels closely followed by a fuel tanker our trailblazer is only about 1 meter higher than the patrol roof it was unfortunately built for a tub rather than a tray so there is ample room above the tray for all sorts of terrain which means there is a bit of a climb to get up into bed we are both under 60 and quite fit still so it's not a problem for us yet, it would be easier to get in and out of bed if it had single beds up there though, it has twin slide outs with the recliner chairs in one like you they were a requirement for us too only thing we would change really is the shower toilet area built for those stick family's you see on car windows but as I said earlier it's our first van and second hand so you get what you get, every thing else ticked the right boxes for us, the best thing about 5th wheelers is there stability while towing almost impossable to spin out of control, they just don't get the wobbles like a regular van and weight distribution is really a non event as the weight on the pull can basically go up to the carrying capacity of the prime mover (tug) I think if more people actually took one for a drive there would be more of them on the roads as they are easier to drive than people may think,
I have been driving semi trailers all my working life only my farm stuff not commercial on the road all week stuff, last year I decdied to get my B-Double truck licence and even with my driving background I were quite surprised how manoverable and easy to drive that a B-Double truck i, ok so backing it caused a bit of grief but I got there, I am shure others would find the same driving a 5th wheeler v a car and trailer

Ausmo · Member

Iana,

We recently purchased a Southern Cross Expedition Barcoo 5'er from the original owner. In my opinion this an excellent high quality unit without any evident corner cutting or B grade workmanship. While I can't comment on their adaptability in design or on their customer service, I can give a ringing endorsement to the quality of their product.