Thought Police!

Weevil · Guru

Thought Police!

Ondabeach · Senior Member

You're absolutely right Goldfinger. Cindy did answer my questions, and was courteous, mature and professional in her response. Do I personally think she made an error in judgement in closing the original thread? Yes I do, but who hasn't. I believe that she was trying to oil some squeaky wheels, in an effort to stave off an acrimonious debate, as she put it. Do I understand her motivations? Yes, absolutely.

Weevil, this is a privately owned and operated site, but it is in the public space. The rights to freedom of speech and freedom of thought are protected under the laws of the land. I know people get shut down on forums everywhere, on a daily basis, but just because people aren't being taken to task over it doesn't mean that it's ok, morally, or in the eyes of the law.

As I've already said, I commend Cindy for leaving this topic open. Whether Cindy has second thoughts about her original decision doesn't matter, what's done is done. If we all learn to have a bit more respect for other each other's opinions, then I'm a happy camper. As Goldfinger said, onward and upward smile

Cheers, Steve.

TheHeaths · Veteran Member

Steve,

yes, the forum is in a public space, but with its set rules. We all agree to those when we join, and one is that the Webmaster/Owner can edit posts or threads as they see fit. That is what she has done, closing further discussion, but NOT removing the purported joke, so others can still see it if they desire. That seems to me to be a reasonable compromise.

Also, the rights and laws that you so readily keep pushing, regarding freedom of speech and freedom of thought are NOT a "free for all" in this country, but are moderated by a number of laws covering such things as defamation, racism, sexism etc. I am not arguing whether or not the original "joke" post offends under that, simply that the rights you mention are not as black and white as you like to paint.

As such, people cannot just say or do what they think without considering the thoughts and feelings of others, all of which, whether we agree with them or not, are as valid as our own. The Webmaster/Owner has tried to reach that balance in this case.

-- Edited by TheHeaths on Sunday 17th of May 2015 09:08:17 AM

Ondabeach · Senior Member

You're right Ian, freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say anything you like, but censorship should only be used where absolutely necessary, not to shut down a discussion because someone took offence. Very few things are black and white under the law... it's pretty much one big grey area, which is why we need judges and juries.

Agreeing to the terms of use of a website in no way diminishes a person's rights, because you cannot contract outside the law.

Defending one's friends is admirable, but Cindy doesn't need defending, because she's not under attack.

rockylizard · Guru

Ondabeach wrote:
You're right Ian, freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say anything you like, but censorship should only be used where absolutely necessary, not to shut down a discussion because someone took offence. Very few things are black and white under the law... it's pretty much one big grey area, which is why we need judges and juries.
Agreeing to the terms of use of a website in no way diminishes a person's rights, because you cannot contract outside the law.
Defending one's friends is admirable, but Cindy doesn't need defending, because she's not under attack.

Gday...

That comment is interesting, Steve, irrespective of the to-ing and fro-ing of this thread, given your original post -

Ondabeach wrote:
Good grief... who is the admin that closed this thread, and why???
http://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t60203879/topic-60203879/
Crocheted any nice swastikas lately???

We all joined a forum, discovered it is a great place to gain information/experience/comment/humour and in many cases friendship. The forum also provides a set of rules - if read when joining surely it would mean this thread would simply not exist.

To draw parallel with Nazis is not only a big stretch - but is more offensive than the school boy humour of the photo-shopped photo that seems to have attracted these discussions.

Cheers - and let's move on and get back to "grey nomading" - John

Ondabeach · Senior Member

Sorry John, I thought it was obvious that I was relating censorship to dictatorships. If Cindy took it personally then I apologise to her unreservedly.

Cheers, Steve.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Steve, I have no idea whether Cindy had any personal feelings about either the photo-shopped photo, or this post. Neither she nor I are confidants.

My point was not whether Cindy felt aggrieved or not. I am sure she does not need any 'defending' from forumites.

It was simply your latter comment seemed at odds with your admonishment in your original post. It should be realised that dictatorships and censorship are both made up of people - so the comment could only be referring to people ... in your mind at the time, the anonymous, dreaded "Admin" hmm

Cheers - and as I said before ... let's move on and get back to "grey nomading" - John

-- Edited by rockylizard on Sunday 17th of May 2015 11:06:02 AM

Weevil · Guru

These are the forum rules that apply to this forum;

http://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t53677007/welcome-and-forum-rules/

-- Edited by Weevil on Sunday 17th of May 2015 11:18:15 AM

Ondabeach · Senior Member

I wouldn't worry about that John, you know what they say... things aren't always as they seem.

Thanks Vic, I have seen that.

Cheers, Steve.

Hylda&Jon · Guru

If a thread is closed due to the discussion degenerating into personal abuse that would be fine but if closed due to the 'perceived' lack of taste of a joke or peoples opinions of the said joke then that, in my opinion, would not be the wisest road to take, unless, of course, it was a political or religious joke or one that would offend the morals of any decent person.

But, in the end, it is Cindy's site and she is the administrator so, agree or disagree, we all enjoy this site due to her time and kindness so.....live with it.

-- Edited by Hylda&Jon on Sunday 17th of May 2015 01:45:30 PM

Santa · Guru

Have to say the constant flow of sanctimony from a few of the more delicate posters gets a little wearing after a while.

Weevil has it right, read the forum rules http://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t53677007/welcome-and-forum-rules/ and adhere to them, easy,

you won't change things so why not go with the flow, its easier on everyone. wink

gordon_adl · Senior Member

The problem here is that you have a misconception of what 'public' is. This is NOT a public space. It is very much private and Cindy owns the address. In law, a web address is no different than someone's private house. You're a guest here and nothing else.

The local council park, the beach, the roads that you drive on are public. The driveway of the house that you pull into, the website that you visit, all very much private and thus not accountable to free speech.

Just because the public can see this does not mean it's a public space. Cindy can easily, with the stroke of a keypad, make this a very private place that no one can see unless she has invited that person. Think of the internet as a highway. The road itself and how you got to this site is public (for arguements sake), but as soon as you drive into a driveway to get to a specific address, it is then a private domain, whether that domain is a house or a website.

Ondabeach wrote:

Weevil, this is a privately owned and operated site, but it is in the public space. The rights to freedom of speech and freedom of thought are protected under the laws of the land.
Cheers, Steve.

TheHeaths · Veteran Member

Steve,

your idea and my idea of a personally directed attack are obviously poles apart.

Your original post directed what is an offensive comparison at an unknown person in what I saw as quite a belligerent manner, and your second post was directed at Cindy, once you knew her name. I don't say this to defend Cindy, as she can do that more than adequately herself, but as a comment against that sort of attack as the premise of any thread.

What I do find funny, however, is that you while you state you believe that we can all hold different opinions, most of your responses seem to flippantly disregard any that happen to be different to what you hold.

I am certain that this thread wouldn't have developed as it has were it not for the tone of your couple of leading posts, and no, the use of emoticons does nothing for me with respect to the intention behind the words, in this or any other thread.

Ondabeach · Senior Member

Thanks for the input guys, but it's getting a bit like groundhog day now. You might want to read all the posts before commenting to avoid going over old ground.

Gordon, you are obviously entitled to believe whatever you like, the internet is however very much a public space. You don't need to take my word for it, just google 'internet public space'.

Cheers, Steve.