Should be entertaining Frank, save some of the popcorn for me please mate.

hako wrote:

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Phil - I don't find your post offensive as I know it is posted with good intent, but fair dinkum mate, I'm scared to ask an electrical question so I'll continue playing with electrical things anyway.
Actually electricity is no different to motor vehicles - they both kill and injure with gay abandon especially in the hands of the inexperienced or adventurous and you 'must' be licensed to use them.
Why single out electricity.

Regards

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 Great point mate, BUT some folks think that if you can't see it, it can't hurt you. 

I agree with your point. Unqualified laypeople should never fiddle. I don't even do oil changes anymore. 

BTW please feel free to ask as many questions as you wish  

Cheers

-- Edited by Phil C on Wednesday 1st of April 2015 08:04:42 PM

I'm in my 60's and have worked with smart arsed electricians most of my life. Phil get off your pedestal. There are hundreds of skills out there that are life threatening. Maybe the joke should go like: up in heaven who's the guy playing with the wire with a screw driver and a pair of pliers. Oh that's God making out he's an electrician.

-- Edited by iana on Wednesday 1st of April 2015 09:05:29 PM

RCD can trip on any "out of balance load" earth or leakage .. Not just earth wire ..
Admittedly in van there's not too many other earths..

Most of what Phil says is correct. 240 volt installations in caravans and MHs should only be worked on by a Licenced Electrician. In fact this is the law. Many questions have been asked about 240 volt installations by Forum members in the past, and I made a post some time back that I would give no more advice except to say have a licenced electrician look at it. I don't want to be responsible for giving advice that may result in harm or even death to a member. 

Hi again,

Thanks for the responses. When I was in the RAAF we were called "queer trades" as you couldnt see anything other than wires, contactors and boxes. The "black handers" ie. engine fitters, airframe fitters etc were non queer trades.

Look I am the first to acknowledge that ALL trades people have dangers and potential death traps BUT these are clear to the eye and easy to avoid, whereas with electrical you need at least a multimeter to see the presence of voltage, and if you use a multimeter wrong you can blow yourself to kingdom come, check youtube for multimeter accidents.

Sorry guys, and with all due respect, anything electrical, RF, UHF, radar etc is double dangerous as you cant see the danger till it kicks your sorry backside.

BTW Electricians give the rules to God!

Cheers

PS can I have some more popcorn please Frank?

-- Edited by Phil C on Thursday 2nd of April 2015 10:58:26 AM

good points, but how many people ever get their class 1 appl. checked?

grahamg wrote:

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good points, but how many people ever get their class 1 appl. checked?

Thats just it, if more folks are made aware of this, the more will be sensible enough to get there gear checked, especially the older appliances. I know there will be some who dont give a toss and carry on as if nothing can happen.

I wont be chicken little and say its a must do, but the smart money is on being safe.

BTW testing applies to class one and class two appliances.

Cheers

 

 

 

To quote madaboutled

The following in not intended to offend any 240v Sparky here, BUT, I've seen some doggy "12v" wiring done on a caravan by a "qualified 240v Sparky" using 240v cable that:

A: Was just wrong to start with

B: Wasn't flexible enough for the application

C: Wasn't thick enough to carry the load and wasnt fused.

And the job wasnt on his own van it was for a customer. The whole lot had to be replaced. I have no doubt that licensed electricians know there 240v volt stuff backwards but not all are good with 12v. again not intended to offend any 240v Sparky here, just sayin !. Also I share the sentiments of 03_Troopy, don't even get me started on auto sparkies....

My response

I agree with your post, there are a number of dodgy sparkies (240V) who will have forgotten their ELV training (ELV = Extra Low Voltage) and Ohm's Law regarding volt drop etc. Before I left teaching we (in conjunction with the office of the technical regulator) tested a group of electricians on basic theory and knowledge (mind you they needed to pass these before they got their qualifications for licencing called the capstone). To all our horror, not many passed. Now im as guilty as all of them, when I completed my training I quickly forgot the theory until I started to teach it.

12 volts needs no licence, correct. Not too sure why this is, I have met a few auto electricians who have NOT been to trade school, their excuse is they learnt off the boss. Mind you we withdrew our work experience kids that day. Maybe its time auto electricians were required to get a licence after trade quals are completed. Now that statement will sure "spark" some discussion.... More popcorn Frank.. lol

See I do have a sense of humour...

oldtrack123 wrote:

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Aus-Kiwi wrote:

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RCD can trip on any "out of balance load" earth or leakage .. Not just earth wire ..
Admittedly in van there's not too many other earths..

---

 

HI

Have you ever actually tested to se how much is "earthed"in a van, camper or motor home??

You may be surprised!!!

Again remember "'EARTHED""does not neccessarily mean   'Mother earth"

 

,A basic RVD does not monitor current leakage, it is RESIDUAL VOLTAGE sensitive.

but are usually used in conjunction with a RCD & covers loss of isolation & earth leakage

 

PeterQ

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 As I said it doesn't have to the earth wire .. we test with temp earth on domestic as its a known earth ..

refereing to earth trip is the old earth leakage circuit breaker type..

power in the annex for example .. Yes residual is what the R is in RCD ... 

 

 

 

Aus-Kiwi wrote:

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---

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[1] admittedly in van there's not too many other earths..

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[2 As I said it doesn't have to the earth wire .. we test with temp earth on domestic as its a known earth ..

refereing to

[3] earth trip is the old earth leakage circuit breaker type..

[4]power in the annex for example ..

 

 

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 Hi

 

As I said You may be surprised at how many" earths" are in the average Van ,camper ,motor home.

Sadly many are not aware that the following are more than likely to be "EARTHS"

[1]the whole chassis & any metallic objects attached to it  that usually includes metal doors & windows  & their frames ,If metal clad the skin

[2]the gas pipe lines & any gas appliance[gas stove]

[3]All class 1 appliances, fridge, aircon ,micro wave , toaster,electric jug /kettle ,etc

[4]Possiibly the stainless steel wash up sink & taps   

The true situation would be that almost anywhere you stand EARTHS are within reach!!]

EVEN if the extension lead is not plugged, but a generator or inverter is plugged into the power inlet socket

The old ELCBs[1960s]  as used in the general electrical area,  worked on exactly the same principle as today's RCDs

They detect an out of balance in current between ACTIVE & neutral 

The only way that can occur is by a leakage to" earth" in an" 'earthed" neutral system.

or the very remote chance, that one or the other legs within the ELCB /RCD is bypassed

Perhaps you are referiing to the EARTH leakage detectors used by supply authorities  that warned of line leakages???

PeterQ

Just had a handfull of popcorn

 

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Thursday 2nd of April 2015 02:50:15 PM

You will find a lot of places in Australia that consistenly have 250V AC these days. Where I live it was as high as 260V & I complained & they put in a recording volt meter to verify. They adjusted the feeder transformer taps & it now is contantly around 250v. You will be lucky to find a standard line voltage these days with all the solar grid supplies.

-- Edited by DeBe on Thursday 2nd of April 2015 04:43:00 PM

This lot should keep you going for a while mate

just yell out if need more ok? This bloke is doing me a great deal because I am buying so much.

 

slightly off topic there Doug

but yes mate how many bags would you,like?

I can do you a special deal tonight only though