Sydney terror

deverall11 · Guru

RE: Sydney terror

dorian · Guru

Perhaps the reason they didn't shoot when they had the chance was that they weren't sure how many terrorists they were dealing with?

DMaxer · Guru

Just trying to work this out. This lunatic comes to Australia to seek political asylum, probably because he claimed he was subjected to violence or threats by militants and despots. He then proceeds to write to the families of servicemen who are overseas fighting these militants and despots. He then allegedly commits a number of offences and is on bail for being an accessory to murder. These hideous events then unfold and two innocent people are killed. Now I guess a few days will pass and then we will be lectured by the politically correct as to why people seeking asylum should not be detained whilst proper checks done on their claims and backgrounds.

Ontos45 · Guru

deverall11 wrote:
Fastcoach wrote:
Why, when the police marksmen had a clear and uninterrupted view of him earlier in the day, didn't they shoot him at that point? I think some of the negotiators believe they can talk anyone down regardless of how deranged the person is.

I guess this is part of the softly, educated approach we as a society are used to. It's time we accept that shooting dead one of these clowns is acceptable. Maybe they also thought he may have had a bomb planted somewhere.
Larry

Lot more the marksman would have had to take into account than just shooting the target when he sights him. He'd have an observer feeding him wind direction and speed (gusts etc.) It's the marksman who has to decide if he has a kill sight taking into account the large plate window he had to shoot through. A normal full metal jacket round (FMJ) at an angle may just bounce off because of glass flex. Even the final trajectory of an armour piecing round (AP) would be hard to judge and if the marksman felt he would only wound the target (allowing the target to fire at hostages) he would not fire. Not like the movies.

Nelly · Guru

Thoughts with all the families of the hostages involved -so sad.

Fastcoach · Senior Member

Thanks Ontos45 for your insight on the subject. I had imagined the impact of the window may have had a bearing on the situation or the possibility that the offender might have had an explosive device attached to himself which may have been detonated automatically if he was killed.

milo · Guru

what a night, so sad and my condolences to the families involved

JayDee · Guru

The people in our judicial system who let this guy go free should pray for forgiveness, not that it will help the poor victims of this saga.
We need to relook at our immigration rules, and adopt lines similar to Japan. They have got it right. Let's follow their system.
We are sadden by the events that took place in our beautiful city of Sydney.
Our thoughts are with the innocent bystanders.
jay&Dee

done dreaming · Senior Member

He should have been taken out earlier.We should send our people to Israel to see how it is done because they live with this every day.They dont listen to bleeding heart do gooders.'they protect their citizens with all means available and ask for forgiveness afterwards.

Gerty Dancer · Guru

Its so healing to see the "#I'll ride with you" movement... just shows Australia has more heart than hate.

03_Troopy · Guru

done dreamin, you're still dreamin.......................................

done dreaming · Senior Member

Troopy you obviously have your point and thats great but please assist me to change my attitude by letting me know where negotiating with religous nutters has ever resulted in success without innocent lives being taken.

Henry1 · Veteran Member

I fear there is worse to come

done dreaming · Senior Member

We have 2 greiving families, one with 3 kids at christmas time, because the heirachy did not have the balls to call the shot. They did not want to take the risk to protect their careers instead of the people.

done dreaming · Senior Member

Troopie, there are no examples,i wish there were but there are not. Ex soldier and maximum prison screw

Igo · Veteran Member

Gerty Dancer wrote:
Its so healing to see the "#I'll ride with you" movement... just shows Australia has more heart than hate.

I agree Gerty, something positive in a tragic situation.

Cowboy7307 · Senior Member

Lets not blow this all out of proportion , he had been here for 30 years so the papers say ,after 30 years i would say he is Australian,

Why was he aloud bail in the first place , the legal system is crap

2 people died did he shoot them?

and more people die on the streets every week to guns in Sydney and Melbourne ,no one makes a song and dance about that .

peterblack · Senior Member

hi all.Why was he aloud bail in the first place , the legal system is crap
why didn't the so called sharp shooters finish him off

03_Troopy · Guru

done dreaming wrote:
He should have been taken out earlier.(1)We should send our people to Israel to see how it is done because they live with this every day.(2)They dont listen to bleeding heart do gooders.'they protect their citizens with all means available and(3) ask for forgiveness afterwards.

(1) We have nothing to learn from a society that uses blatant aggression just as readily as any other to solve their problems, especially when they are as much to blame as their enemies.

(2)I didn't see any protestation from "bleeding heart do gooders" in this awful situation.

(3)I seriously doubt they would seek or care about forgiveness for the things they do.

done dreaming wrote:
Troopy you obviously have your point and thats great but please assist me to change my attitude by letting me know where negotiating with religous nutters has ever resulted in success without innocent lives being taken.

He was just a nutter, plain and simple. No different to Martin Bryant. It has nothing to do with religion.

done dreaming wrote:
We have 2 greiving families, one with 3 kids at christmas time, because the heirachy did not have the balls to call the shot. They did not want to take the risk to protect their careers instead of the people.

It's easy for armchair experts to make judgement calls after the fact. At the time there would have been many factors that the marksman would have to take into account before "taking the shot" some of which have already been outlined in a previous post by Ontos45. The risks possible could have had far more serious consequences than the final outcome, tragic as it was.

I also think that the judicial system failed miserably with this bloke too, given his past history. It's sad that the hatred that people feel for this person will likely be transferred to a group of innocent peaceful people.

DMaxer · Guru

"Innocent"? "Peaceful"? Had a look at what at what this peaceful innocent religion did in Pakistan yesterday?

rockylizard · Guru

DMaxer wrote:
"Innocent"? "Peaceful"? Had a look at what at what this peaceful innocent religion did in Pakistan yesterday?

Gday...

It is not the religion ... it is the Taliban ... fundamentalist zealots (people) with an ambition of power and control - through terrorising even their own. cry

Is it the religion Christianity that carried out the acts of the KKK in Yew Ess of Aye ???

Cheers - John

03_Troopy · Guru

DMaxer wrote:
"Innocent"? "Peaceful"? Had a look at what at what this peaceful innocent religion did in Pakistan yesterday?

Again you are confusing fanatics that misuse religion as their banner with the sane majority.

dING · Senior Member

deverall11 wrote:
We are way too soft. Bring back the death penalty.
Larry

Seems a bit pointless who ya gunna hang

Survival is not a feature of there mind set

Ontos45 · Guru

Just heard on radio that Iran wanted this bastard deported back to them years ago as he was wanted for fraud. We refused because he pleaded persecution by Iran.

johnq · Guru

Gerty Dancer wrote:
Its so healing to see the "#I'll ride with you" movement... just shows Australia has more heart than hate.

I am wondering what spin could instantly turn Muslims into the victims instead. It is worth checking those who seem to have such spin primed and ready to fire. This is what that spokeswoman for illridewithyou believes in. As you will read, it is anything but healing.

"Im learning about hate because I am coming to hate you, white person. You have all the control, all the power, all the privilege, and there is nothing holding you accountable. I hate the double standards and hypocrisy you display, the rank dishonesty of your conduct. I hate that you can harm us, when we cannot harm you. I hate that you have actually impacted on careers, multiple and not even directly, with your hypocrisy. I hate that youre so dominant in the publishing industry theres very few venues Id consider safe to even submit to now. I hate what you have done to PoC I dont know. I hate what you have done to PoC I do know. I hate what you have done to me, and I was not involved."

http://www.unz.com/isteve/the-media-heroine-of-the-australian-counterbacklash-has-some-issues/

We must ask questions about any belief that has been associated with and is the spring from which so much terror blooms.

Sharia Law? NO! Absolutely not. No way, shape or form.

-- Edited by johnq on Wednesday 17th of December 2014 12:44:27 PM

D and D · Guru

Lesley F · Veteran Member

The African cafe in my local shopping ctr. has had all it's front windows smashed. I've no doubt this isn't "just a coincidence".

D and D · Guru

Why was Man Haron Monis on bail at the time he took those people hostage ... simple, we live in a society based on the rule of law that assumes a person is innocent until proven guilty. He hadn't even been to trial let alone been proven guilty of the charges against him so he was entitled to bail. Our legal system is not perfect, it doesn't always provide justice and it certainly doesn't provide vengeance and it makes mistakes but if you don't agree with the presumption of innocence what alternative would you propose?

D and D · Guru

Ontos45 wrote:
Just heard on radio that Iran wanted this bastard deported back to them years ago as he was wanted for fraud. We refused because he pleaded persecution by Iran.

We refused because we didn't have an extradition treaty with Iran largely because of their lack of respect for human rights and their history of religious and other forms of persecution - http://ab.co/1uQMz1d

03_Troopy · Guru

Good posts D and D...