I noticed the rub marks up high on the wires in picture 2.

I wonder how long it would take for them to wear through

and become even more dangerous.

Peterpan 

 

Hi

Yes

[1]protective outer sheave removed more  than needed

[2]sharp screw point could easily puncture insulation & become live  , That is a frequent problem

 

[3]cable subject to too much movement, rub marks which is rubbed right through could make comtact with outer metal wall [/liven things up nicely]

]4]Cable connection subject to movement

I wonder what the twin cable goes to?

How about where the cables go through the uprights?

 

 

PeterQ

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Sunday 9th of November 2014 05:58:02 PM

It's a long time since I jerked wires for a living, but I have seen much worse inside the walls of houses. Unfortunately, there is no nation wide implementation of a standard for electrical work, and no formal inspection by the electrical authorities as there was back in those days. The responsibility is totally on the 'qualified' person at the factory - probably a supervisor or manager - and the staff are supposed to be supervised and their work checked. My advice is please ensure all GPOs (power points) are double pole switched and the van is fitted with an earth leakage breaker (also called an RCD) and this will prevent the shell of the van ever becoming live. Either a fuse will blow or the RCD will throw out. It does surprise me that manufacturers are willing to take the liability risks associated with these shoddy and potentially fatal work practices, e.g., there are a dozen cheap ways if fixing a GPO to a van wall without using a long PK screw to puncture the active wire! If you are just a little OCD about electrical safety, you might consider buying a cheap 3 pin polarity tester so you can test a GPO for correct polarity each time you plug in. If one is OK, they should all be OK. 

Fortunately - either by good luck or good management - serious electrical accidents in RVs are rare, so happy trails.....

Keep in mind other than the screws going way too far into cavity.
They should be insulated or covered to prevent shock.
The single insulation is not as bad as it looks ..
It's in a cavity where single insulation ok in short distance.
The outer insulation is mainly .for mechanical protection, rubbing etc..
In some countries GPOs have inclosed boxes behind them..
Much like a connector box..
I would say 90% of domestic power points in houses are very similar..
They mainly check polarity and wire size these days..

Hi, Peter!
Yeah - now that is a real scary situation, but Victoria (don't misunderstand me, I love the place) was always the least vigilant regarding wiring rules and regulations. It sounds like nothing has changed. And Aus-Kiwi, the box behind the GPO is one of the low cost ways of improving the risk of wires being punctured by sharp screws. I use them in my van for all the extra GPOs whether mains or inverter powered.

I guess it comes down to the cheapest option which applies the minimum acceptable risk! We could all replace our van wiring with Pyrotennax (copper tube with internal wires suspended in chalk) as used on ships, oil rigs and factories and other extreme situations! You are quite correct - nothing will happen until people start to die, and not just one or two. That would just be collateral damage!

Yep wire in cavity or in area where it can't cool its derated
Under insulation or foam is bad news... ..
Why rolled up extension cords must be pulled out before use!

Thanks heaps Aus-Kiwi and Chris.

You've prevented me from making a mistake.

They say a pic is worth a thousand words so here's where I am right now.

I have a few ideas going through my head of how to secure the cables so they're still straight and neat but have an air gap around them.

BTW..The red cable is the solar feed. The others are a combination of 2.5mm 240V and 1.5 12V

When I calculated the size of the solar cable I assumed a core temp of 35C.

Cheers

Jim

 

Wow! Grandad5 You have a BIG job in front of you! You seem to have everything under control. There have always been debates about the suitability of 'normal' 240v TPS electrical cable (which is usually less than 19 strands) versus a true multi strand (up to 100 strands) in a mobile environment. The problem is that while a true multi strand is far more flexible and handles the rigours of vibration and movement far better, the GPOs fitted in vans are normal domestic types (albeit double pole) that are designed for the standard 240v TPS wire styles and use a single grub screw to secure the connection. I guess very few would argue that a soldered and properly crimped multi strand cable joint is as good as you can get, I doesn't appear that many van manufacturers offer this! Surprise, surprise!

Well, it seems we have to agree to disagree. I would have to ask why more than 7 strands make connections an issue, and - maybe I'm a dinosaur and what I was taught at technical college is now unacceptable - for high current connections the more conductors, the better. For example, sub mains were commonly 19/.064 and earth conductors were always 7/.029 minimum. Grub screw connections are acceptable in a domestic stable environment, but even there it is common to find strands cut by the screw. The last time I looked at my battery cables, they appeared to be a lot more than 7 strands and not a grub screw in sight. Tinned wire and copper can react with each other, but a good soldered multi strand connection would be my choice every time.

Aus-Kiwi wrote:

---

Sub mains are 16mm SDI .. Single domestic .
Solder won't take the heat the cable is rated at..
Which is why N /earth has two connectors or screws..

---

 

Wow, those cables must run hot!!

Pyrotenex ,perhaps??

Melting point of Pb/Sn solder ranges from around 180C<205C  depending on Pb <Sn ratio

60 Sn/ 40 Pb as usually used by electricians, MP 204C 

Most PVC insulated  cables are limited to around 75C

The reasons soldering is often frowned on are'

[a] It can flow under pressure ][screw, tunnel , boltedl]With the connection loosing it's tightness

It can lead to loss of flexibility adjacent to the soldered section, leading to fracture

That is not a problem IF the cable can be supported[ No movement adjacent to the soldered section]

[c] the skill required to make a good soldered joint

[e]the time factor 

 

But poorly made compression connections can be worse then soldered[Improvised tools & lugs etc]

The correct size for the cable & the right tool is essential for a sound compression connection

 

 

PeterQ

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Thursday 13th of November 2014 01:01:52 PM

I guess this debate is somewhat redundant as in practical terms, as long as the cable used is approprate size and correctly terminated - grub screwed or crimped and or soldered (I admit that I am an old sparky and things change), but if I found any sub mains running hot enough to melt solder I would freak out! As long as what is done is done to best practice, there should be few problems.

Things have certainly changed since I was wiring main and sub main boards around the State Government buildings in Brissie. All cables wire imperial sizes and normally in screwed conduit. There were no such things as heat shrink, jointing compounds and bimetallic crimps. You seem a bit younger than me and in NSW where the rules are (or certainly were) different. I left the trade after 10 years in 1972 and went into various jobs in electronics. So my recollections of being a sparky are a bit vague since I haven't done any wire jerking - except for my own and family's houses - for 40 years. But the 5 years I did at tech college learning about dash pot starters and rotary converters weren't a total waste. I also still remember wiring all the exterior flood lighting around the Treasury building (now the casino) in pyro with no safety gear at all. No such thing as WHS then! maybe I could rewire my van with pyro! Hey - there's an idea.....