Unreasonable expectations.

oldboar · Senior Member

Unreasonable expectations.

Gerty Dancer · Guru

I agree Oldboar, have seen too many camps ruined by people who think those "self-contained" requirements don't pertain to them. We're not self-contained, and spend most of our time in caravan parks. Its ok for now, but this caravan will be for sale when we finish this trip.

Plendo · Guru

I Agree with both posts, and to be honest restrictions like that would make a free camp more appealing to me if i was looking for an overnight stop, or somewhere to stay for a couple of days.

There are a couple of things in the RV world that some people believe they can not live without, where another group find difficult to tolerate, they key ones appear to be generators, and dogs. Thus having some camps that allow, and other camps that disallow gives everyone the opportunity to be somewhere they would be comfortable.

The Hats · Senior Member

100% in agreement,example free camp a dozen of so vans, lets make it a nice dusty desert scene, with hard ground.

grey water running out onto the ground making puddles and after a while the puddles turn into little rivers, all of a sudden you have to pick your way around the area to stay out of the mud, and a dozen genny's buzzing there heads off, a cacophony of noise we could do without.

We have a genny if for any reason we need to use it we will find a place to camp that has no one in it, if some arrives it get switched off.

Some nice grassy site you think this is good we can run our grey water out here. Then after time you get a build up of phosphates and other chemicals in the ground., also not the best result.

Lets face it a couple of old 20litre drums or some cheep jerry cans can solve the water issue with out to much hassle

Simples wink :thats my worth biggrin

Cheers

The Hats

PeterInSa · Guru

A friend is full self contained, with Sola, loo and grey water tank etc. When he gets to a Freedom Camp with no one there, pulls out his generator and cable places it in the open (chained to a tree) to let fellow campers know he has a generator. He's tied of fellow RV's campers setting up not 3m or so away from him when there is plenty of open space available.

Come dusk he puts the geni and cable away without ever starting it.

Peter

poodles1950 · Veteran Member

Too true! When we bush camp, it's for the peace and quiet and enjoyment of our surroundings. We've been to quite a few camps where generators have spoiled it for us. Sometimes, a genny is needed for a short while, but every night "so we can watch TV" or "we have only an electric fridge" ????? To us, bush camping involves sitting around the campfire at night...... We can do this as we are self-contained, if we weren't, we'd need the amenities of a caravan park. If the proposed guidelines are not adhered to, then more and more of our wonderful bush camps will be closed to us.

Phil C · Guru

I agree with all so far. However, when its a dull day and the house batts are getting low shouldnt there be room for the generators to run say 10am to 4pm? I am a great believer in compromise and communication. Would it be reasonable to ask the neighbours for a few hours to charge the batteries?

Just putting it out there.. I do agree at night is over the top unless for medical stuff.

Where do we draw the line?

Safe travels

Blue · Senior Member

oldboar wrote:
On another forum a post was noticed about a free camp that stated grey water tanks must be used & generators were not permitted. Many posters felt these simple requirements to be unreasonable, stating that they were forcing them into caravan parks. In our opinion, the requirements are quite reasonable & that those that could not comply were forcing themselves into caravan parks. In all fairness where generators are required for valid medical reasons that cannot be satisfied via battery/inverter power we have no objection but consider it ridiculous for those wishing to free camp to be totally reliant on a generator. What do others think?
Darrell & Sandra

name one

Blue · Senior Member

Phil C wrote:
I agree with all so far. However, when its a dull day and the house batts are getting low shouldnt there be room for the generators to run say 10am to 4pm? I am a great believer in compromise and communication. Would it be reasonable to ask the neighbours for a few hours to charge the batteries?

Just putting it out there.. I do agree at night is over the top unless for medical stuff.

Where do we draw the line?

Safe travels

most people just simply haven't set themselves up properly...

I once ran 3 winter cloudy days on one 100ah battery and a 90watt solar panel..

since then I've upgraded to a 120watt panel and 2 x 100ah GEL batteries..

we run LED lights, TV and hard drive, Diesel Heater, water pumps for toilet and showers, computers and CPAP through a 300 watt inverter etc

kandagal · Guru

We have a holding tank for grey water. But I keep a plastic bowl that will fit in my sink. This gives me the choice to let the washing up water go down into the tank or I can carry it outside & give a very thirsty tree a drink. In some dry areas it seems a crime not to put your grey water at the base of a tree. I'm sure it appreciate it.

Phil C · Guru

Blue wrote:
Phil C wrote:
I agree with all so far. However, when its a dull day and the house batts are getting low shouldnt there be room for the generators to run say 10am to 4pm? I am a great believer in compromise and communication. Would it be reasonable to ask the neighbours for a few hours to charge the batteries?

Just putting it out there.. I do agree at night is over the top unless for medical stuff.

Where do we draw the line?

Safe travels

most people just simply haven't set themselves up properly...

I once ran 3 winter cloudy days on one 100ah battery and a 90watt solar panel..

since then I've upgraded to a 120watt panel and 2 x 100ah GEL batteries..

we run LED lights, TV and hard drive, Diesel Heater, water pumps for toilet and showers, computers and CPAP through a 300 watt inverter etc

I agree Blue, Ive never used my generator even after 18 months, however, I do believe that the need may occur and room should be made for those with genuine needs. I have a similar setup and most times my batts get enough to keep us going from the sun.

When I ordered my caravan I paid particular attention to self sufficiency, survival etc. I wholeheartedly agree that the bush should not be a noisy place other than natural noises.

Safe travels

chaslib · Senior Member

Believe it or not, we holiday alternate years in a caravan park each Sept school holidays with the grandkids ..... this year the particular park is a Big4 and they allow generators in specific unpowered sites in the park between 10am and 2pm ..... I think this is very reasonable and the designated area is within easy walk to all amenities so we are not stuck out in the boondocks!. We only use these types of caravan parks when we have grandkids with us and appreciate the fact that the management of this park are are happy to accommodate campers using generators ...... this is in the Yamba area - high volume of campers in school holidays so very unusual.

Blue · Senior Member

Phil C wrote:
Blue wrote:
Phil C wrote:
I agree with all so far. However, when its a dull day and the house batts are getting low shouldnt there be room for the generators to run say 10am to 4pm? I am a great believer in compromise and communication. Would it be reasonable to ask the neighbours for a few hours to charge the batteries?

Just putting it out there.. I do agree at night is over the top unless for medical stuff.

Where do we draw the line?

Safe travels

most people just simply haven't set themselves up properly...

I once ran 3 winter cloudy days on one 100ah battery and a 90watt solar panel..

since then I've upgraded to a 120watt panel and 2 x 100ah GEL batteries..

we run LED lights, TV and hard drive, Diesel Heater, water pumps for toilet and showers, computers and CPAP through a 300 watt inverter etc
I agree Blue, Ive never used my generator even after 18 months, however, I do believe that the need may occur and room should be made for those with genuine needs. I have a similar setup and most times my batts get enough to keep us going from the sun.
When I ordered my caravan I paid particular attention to self sufficiency, survival etc. I wholeheartedly agree that the bush should not be a noisy place other than natural noises.
Safe travels

some little generators don't bother me during the morning when everyone is up and even afternoon...

but the trouble is,

people take advantage of peoples good nature..

like the above poster was saying, limited hours of the day...

the last time I was at the Sawpit campsite over near Portland this Ahole was parked in the visitors area, (day visiting area ) where they have table and chairs with a roof over the top..

well this guy put his generator right on top of the table where the roof over it acted like am amplifier and ran it all the way through till 9pm...

I was so angry I could spit... furious

you may see my comments through wikicamps... wink

Cloak · Guru

Soon enough those fuel cell machines will be affordable and generators will be in museums.

Imagine a device that is more than 3 times efficient than a generator, silent, makes power for the batteries and makes a waste product called H2O....

Have I slipped into a parallel universe again?

Cheers.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Cloak wrote:
Soon enough those fuel cell machines will be affordable and generators will be in museums.

Imagine a device that is more than 3 times efficient than a generator, silent, makes power for the batteries and makes a waste product called H2O....

We bought a second hand one of these for back up in Europe (lots of rain for days on end makes the solar struggle sometimes)

It is an Efoy 2200. Fantastic piece of kit.

In Australia, we are totally reliant on solar and don't carry a generator.

If you want to enjoy the benefits of nature and the bush, you have an obligation not to stuff it up for others who wish to do the same.

Cheers,

Peter

SnowT · Guru

PeterInSa wrote:
A friend is full self contained, with Sola, loo and grey water tank etc. When he gets to a Freedom Camp with no one there, pulls out his generator and cable places it in the open (chained to a tree) to let fellow campers know he has a generator. He's tied of fellow RV's campers setting up not 3m or so away from him when there is plenty of open space available.

Come dusk he puts the geni and cable away without ever starting it.

Peter

I like it....

Juergen

beiffe · Guru

If you plan properly you should be able to survive without a generator. The big word is PLAN as most buy a rig with either none or 1 small battery and a small solar on the roof and then want to live like at home. It just cant be done.

If you have medical needs for power during the night or even 24 hours then you should plan to have that much power available. That means 3 days of power and the facilities to replenish without the generator.

I always park well away from groups and if there is too many in a spot I move on.

I spent money setting my bus up to be self reliant on power and water. I can carry 150ltrs of fresh water but usually only carry 75 as for me that is plenty for a week and have a 75ltr grey as well as a black water tank. My batteries can handle all the power I need with some to spare and I am a heavy user and I only have a 7mtr bus.

The two things that get up my goat are generators running excessively (I can put up with them during daylight hours if I have to) and diesel heaters that always seem to fire up when everyone wants peace and quiet.

Often tempted to start my diesel motor and go into a duet with them.

I make allowances for new travelers as when I explain how free camping is done they tend to agree and say they would like to get a system to be able to do without the noise and pollution.

For people who believe they have to right to run a generator when ever they like I wish them luck and move on. I have no problems with someone turning the thing off even though the throwing in the river or filling fuel tank with sugar or bonami goes a bit far but did get a laugh when the in the river one happened. LOL.

To run a generator in a caravan park seems ludicrous to me as you would burn more fuel than the levee for power. LOL.

If the site is a generator site then go for it but for me I will go somewhere else.

When I spent time at Greens I went out of ear shot of generators which meant I had to go several hundred meters from the rest of the group and camped on my own. The short walk does not hurt me but to rest in my bed without the noise is great. Also if it is hot I can run my aircon that is very quiet and not have to listen to the generators as everyone else runs their genni's and goes inside.

Again horses for courses but if you want to free camp please consider others and at least try and set your rig up to be appropriate for the camping you wish to do.

CP's, don't worry about batteries and solar or even gas as it is not needed but to camp out in the country setup to have three days of battery power and enough solar to recharge, or drive for the time needed to charge between stops and then stay for the endurance of the batteries.

Regards
Brian

oldboar · Senior Member

Blue wrote:
oldboar wrote:
On another forum a post was noticed about a free camp that stated grey water tanks must be used & generators were not permitted. Many posters felt these simple requirements to be unreasonable, stating that they were forcing them into caravan parks. In our opinion, the requirements are quite reasonable & that those that could not comply were forcing themselves into caravan parks. In all fairness where generators are required for valid medical reasons that cannot be satisfied via battery/inverter power we have no objection but consider it ridiculous for those wishing to free camp to be totally reliant on a generator. What do others think?
Darrell & Sandra
name one

I'm not a doctor, Blue so no idea. I've no doubt that someone will dream one up though. As for daylight running of generators for battery topup after dull days or for those of us full time travellers that need to wash, we've no objection PROVIDED that use is cleared with the neighbours. Obviously the washing machine scenario would require approved grey water disposal directly to trees, etc.

Plendo · Guru

Good note Brian, I think many of share your sentiments regarding generators, and as you say you are able to meet your requirements because you planned properly.

Blue · Senior Member

oldboar wrote:
Blue wrote:
oldboar wrote:
On another forum a post was noticed about a free camp that stated grey water tanks must be used & generators were not permitted. Many posters felt these simple requirements to be unreasonable, stating that they were forcing them into caravan parks. In our opinion, the requirements are quite reasonable & that those that could not comply were forcing themselves into caravan parks. In all fairness where generators are required for valid medical reasons that cannot be satisfied via battery/inverter power we have no objection but consider it ridiculous for those wishing to free camp to be totally reliant on a generator. What do others think?
Darrell & Sandra
name one
I'm not a doctor, Blue so no idea. I've no doubt that someone will dream one up though. As for daylight running of generators for battery topup after dull days or for those of us full time travellers that need to wash, we've no objection PROVIDED that use is cleared with the neighbours. Obviously the washing machine scenario would require approved grey water disposal directly to trees, etc.

this is the thing oldboar...

people keep repeating this line about medical equipment but not one person can name one piece of equipment that they would carry to keep them alive... it's a complete fallacy...

some people have machines to help them sleep,... fair enough... but they are super low power and you can buy battery one, you can run them off your caravan batteries with a small inverter...

my mrs has a sleep apnoea machine, runs it all night long for days on end off the caravan batteries...

so to me... this excuse of running medical equipment is a load of Bull****

sandsmere · Guru

We have solar that usually keeps the batteries charged up, but there has been times when we have needed to start the gennie.

If generators are permitted, I can't see a problem with that. I don't start it before 10am. and never run it after dark.

It is a rare occurance with us , but if We need the generator going for a while, so be it.

Bruce and Bev · Guru

aren't we forgetting what free camps mean - its not that we just don't pay for staying there.....its the freedom from all the rules that caravan parks impose.

I agree entirely that we all need to be considerate to others, so genes puffing away at night, loud TV or music - day or night.................just to name a few things is not on.

The way to deal with these sort of people is to politely ask them to stop. Gennes are fine during the day and I agree with Phil that say between 10am to 4pm is acceptable.

BTW - We have solar and a bank of batteries and only use our generator when necessary and ONLY during the day

Bryan · Guru

Bruce and Bev wrote:
aren't we forgetting what free camps mean - its not that we just don't pay for staying there.....its the freedom from all the rules that caravan parks impose.

I agree entirely that we all need to be considerate to others, so genes puffing away at night, loud TV or music - day or night.................just to name a few things is not on.

The way to deal with these sort of people is to politely ask them to stop. Gennes are fine during the day and I agree with Phil that say between 10am to 4pm is acceptable.

BTW - We have solar and a bank of batteries and only use our generator when necessary and ONLY during the day

Totally agree Bruce & Bev.

My van is fully solar equipped but I carry a generator as well. I've never had to use it but if I needed to I would - between 10am & 4pm. And I have no problem with other people using theirs between those times either. Its called tolerance.

The Hats · Senior Member

Blue wrote:
oldboar wrote:
Blue wrote:
oldboar wrote:
On another forum a post was noticed about a free camp that stated grey water tanks must be used & generators were not permitted. Many posters felt these simple requirements to be unreasonable, stating that they were forcing them into caravan parks. In our opinion, the requirements are quite reasonable & that those that could not comply were forcing themselves into caravan parks. In all fairness where generators are required for valid medical reasons that cannot be satisfied via battery/inverter power we have no objection but consider it ridiculous for those wishing to free camp to be totally reliant on a generator. What do others think?
Darrell & Sandra
name one
I'm not a doctor, Blue so no idea. I've no doubt that someone will dream one up though. As for daylight running of generators for battery topup after dull days or for those of us full time travellers that need to wash, we've no objection PROVIDED that use is cleared with the neighbours. Obviously the washing machine scenario would require approved grey water disposal directly to trees, etc.
this is the thing oldboar...

people keep repeating this line about medical equipment but not one person can name one piece of equipment that they would carry to keep them alive... it's a complete fallacy...

some people have machines to help them sleep,... fair enough... but they are super low power and you can buy battery one, you can run them off your caravan batteries with a small inverter...

my mrs has a sleep apnoea machine, runs it all night long for days on end off the caravan batteries...

so to me... this excuse of running medical equipment is a load of Bull****

G/day blue.

Mate not quite a fallacy,

Friends of ours travel a bit but not much now days due to Jenny's Illness, see has server emphysema and can only last more than 5mins without her Oxygen generator it is a big machine about the size of a slab of stubbies, she has about 50 ft of hose that follows her around, at night they need he reliably of the big machine and it needs a 2kva genny to run it. She has a small unit she can use if the go shopping to the Doctors, ECT but the batteries on that only last about 4 hours, Their travels are limited to about 3 hour legs, but her and hubby still get out there and enjoy this wonderful country, biggrin

Cheers

The Hats

Ron

beiffe · Guru

the are exceptions to every rule in live and I asume that this couple are at the end of their travels and I am not sure how long this problem has existed.
BUT
If they were serious and they intend to travel for much time in the future I would be looking at a different setup.

Many of us now can and do run aircons and heavy drain 240v equipment from batteries being charged only by solar so if they really wanted to, I think they could manage. I know the information for Lithiums is restricted because of the flak we have had and our forum is now closed to new members as we believe we have enough to manage, but it can be done. You just have to read the forums and decipher the good info from the BS distributed by the people who consider themselves experts who have never had a LiFePo4 battery. Similar to a carpenter supervising a steel building job. He is a builder in wood so steel is no different, it builds buildings doesn't it.

I would also be worried relying on a generator as they can fail, so how do they handle in an emergency when the generator stops at night either through running out of fuel or worst still a mechanical fault. Do they have a system to wake them before she runs out of oxygen and do they carry spare oxygen to enable them to get to a hospital to carry on.

Not picking , just worried for their safety.

Regards
Brian

rockylizard · Guru

beiffe wrote:
the are exceptions to every rule in live and I asume that this couple are at the end of their travels and I am not sure how long this problem has existed.
BUT
If they were serious and they intend to travel for much time in the future I would be looking at a different setup.

Many of us now can and do run aircons and heavy drain 240v equipment from batteries being charged only by solar so if they really wanted to, I think they could manage. I know the information for Lithiums is restricted because of the flak we have had and our forum is now closed to new members as we believe we have enough to manage, but it can be done. You just have to read the forums and decipher the good info from the BS distributed by the people who consider themselves experts who have never had a LiFePo4 battery. Similar to a carpenter supervising a steel building job. He is a builder in wood so steel is no different, it builds buildings doesn't it.

I would also be worried relying on a generator as they can fail, so how do they handle in an emergency when the generator stops at night either through running out of fuel or worst still a mechanical fault. Do they have a system to wake them before she runs out of oxygen and do they carry spare oxygen to enable them to get to a hospital to carry on.

Not picking , just worried for their safety.

Regards
Brian

Gday...

These threads always provide me with constant entertainment and wonder - and I try to avoid responding. If only the world was as black and white as depicted by many posters to this thread.

I am sure there would be disagreement, but, taking the above to its final point - is the suggestion that generators can/will/may fail during the night but solar/batteries/inverter would not?

These discussions are tied so much to each poster's emotive standpoint .... a bit like which is best ... Holden or Ford, Land Cruiser or Land Rover, are the mountains or the outback plains better.

If a person has travelled with a generator for some years and have spent some time living this way, they quite possibly don't have the money to install solar/batteries/inverters - the genny will continue to service their needs - used sensibly and considerately.

In five years on the road, I have only camped once where some inconsiderate ran their generator beyond 8pm - but when approached at 10pm he gladly and pleasantly turned it off.

A Honda 2Kva genny running on 'eco mode' is almost inaudible at 20 paces and at 25 paces it can't be heard. I have heard the noise from "happy hour" louder than that ... and they go later.

cheers - John

JackoFJR · Senior Member

Yes I have to agree with John
I have been camping all over Oz for many years , this generator thing has never been a problem ,

Jacko

The Hats · Senior Member

beiffe wrote:
the are exceptions to every rule in live and I asume that this couple are at the end of their travels and I am not sure how long this problem has existed.
BUT
If they were serious and they intend to travel for much time in the future I would be looking at a different setup.

Many of us now can and do run aircons and heavy drain 240v equipment from batteries being charged only by solar so if they really wanted to, I think they could manage. I know the information for Lithiums is restricted because of the flak we have had and our forum is now closed to new members as we believe we have enough to manage, but it can be done. You just have to read the forums and decipher the good info from the BS distributed by the people who consider themselves experts who have never had a LiFePo4 battery. Similar to a carpenter supervising a steel building job. He is a builder in wood so steel is no different, it builds buildings doesn't it.

I would also be worried relying on a generator as they can fail, so how do they handle in an emergency when the generator stops at night either through running out of fuel or worst still a mechanical fault. Do they have a system to wake them before she runs out of oxygen and do they carry spare oxygen to enable them to get to a hospital to carry on.

Not picking , just worried for their safety.

Regards
Brian

G/day Brian,

Mate the couple to which I refer are at the very end of their travailing, they do not have much money, and this set-up has worked well for them over the last few years,

There is an alarm on the O2 generator that sounds if the is no power once this happens, automatically switches to the back up battery that lasts about 10 mins that gives them time to hook up the portable unit, or go straight onto one of the 3 Oxygen Bottles that is never far away.

They have a 120 solar panel and a small inverter and a 100amp battery that I got for them through my business this charges the batteries in the portable unit, the portable unit can also be charged in the car.

Jenny has more confidence in the larger unit of a night In the 4-5 years that she has been on 24hr oxygen they have yet to have a genny failure.(touch wood).

Thanks for your concern for two very special people, that refuse to just lye down and die. biggrin

Cheers

The Hats

Ron

Bryan · Guru

rockylizard wrote:
beiffe wrote:
the are exceptions to every rule in live and I asume that this couple are at the end of their travels and I am not sure how long this problem has existed.
BUT
If they were serious and they intend to travel for much time in the future I would be looking at a different setup.

Many of us now can and do run aircons and heavy drain 240v equipment from batteries being charged only by solar so if they really wanted to, I think they could manage. I know the information for Lithiums is restricted because of the flak we have had and our forum is now closed to new members as we believe we have enough to manage, but it can be done. You just have to read the forums and decipher the good info from the BS distributed by the people who consider themselves experts who have never had a LiFePo4 battery. Similar to a carpenter supervising a steel building job. He is a builder in wood so steel is no different, it builds buildings doesn't it.

I would also be worried relying on a generator as they can fail, so how do they handle in an emergency when the generator stops at night either through running out of fuel or worst still a mechanical fault. Do they have a system to wake them before she runs out of oxygen and do they carry spare oxygen to enable them to get to a hospital to carry on.

Not picking , just worried for their safety.

Regards
Brian

Gday...
These threads always provide me with constant entertainment and wonder - and I try to avoid responding. If only the world was as black and white as depicted by many posters to this thread.
I am sure there would be disagreement, but, taking the above to its final point - is the suggestion that generators can/will/may fail during the night but solar/batteries/inverter would not?
These discussions are tied so much to each poster's emotive standpoint .... a bit like which is best ... Holden or Ford, Land Cruiser or Land Rover, are the mountains or the outback plains better.
If a person has travelled with a generator for some years and have spent some time living this way, they quite possibly don't have the money to install solar/batteries/inverters - the genny will continue to service their needs - used sensibly and considerately.
In five years on the road, I have only camped once where some inconsiderate ran their generator beyond 8pm - but when approached at 10pm he gladly and pleasantly turned it off.
A Honda 2Kva genny running on 'eco mode' is almost inaudible at 20 paces and at 25 paces it can't be heard. I have heard the noise from "happy hour" louder than that ... and they go later.
cheers - John

Well said John. All it needs is a little consideration and tolerance from both sides.

rockylizard · Guru

Blue wrote:
JackoFJR wrote:
Yes I have to agree with John
I have been camping all over Oz for many years , this generator thing has never been a problem ,

Jacko
I bet you're one of them...

Gday...

Blue, there has been much discussion recently about sharing opinions and trying to be tolerant of the outlook of others on life and travelling. It has also been wisely suggested that, to help convey the sentiment of the response, use of emoticons work well to substitute for facial expressions/tone of voice.

Your comment is quite acceptable. However, that emoticon certainly conveys how you feel. If you check it is supposed to convey : furious :.

Surely you are not furious with JackoFJR simply for simply making an observation many of us would support.

Cheers - and happy travelling (however, you choose to do it) - John

Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.