full annexe - new rules

jan-ed · Veteran Member

RE: full annexe - new rules

cultana · Senior Member

_wombat_ wrote:
I did not know the gas detector was compulsory.

My new van had to have both fire and gas detectors fitted, compulsory, legal etc..

cultana · Senior Member

Some clarification please with this:

"if you have a fridge, hot water, or gas on the side of the van where the annexe is you can no longer enclose the annexe with canvas sides."

HWS, I follow as it has a vent and exhausts the gas burning products. Anyway mine is on the right side of van, (facing forward), non annex side. No confusion here.

Fridge, does this only include gas fridges or also include fully electric ones? Mine is completely on 12V, no gas.

Gas?? Does this mean gas bottles or something else? Somewhat confused here.

How does all this fit in with some tent trailers?

Also where are the new rules published and is it national or state specific?

Cupie · Guru

It was only last week that I had a short discussion on this subject with my son who has a Plumbing & gas fitting business.

He does lots of gas works & certificates for caravan sales yards as well as private owners.

He mentioned the restrictions on the placement of gas outlets & the need to have not only the 'doorstep' type gas ventilation but also air flow through the van. He has required many older vans to be fitted with a vent before issuing a certificate.

He is in the process of doing yet another course (& certificate) on the new regs. Required for his licence & insurance.

I'll get him to check my van out once he has done the course.

It seems that all vans, including second hand ones must comply to get a gas certificate.

ps. (edit) My HWS & fridge on the old Jayco Westport are on the opposite side to the Annex. But I do have the option of fitting an awning on that side as well .. No probs with that I believe.

-- Edited by Cupie on Sunday 15th of June 2014 07:52:13 PM

_wombat_ · Master (of Mischief)

cultana wrote:
_wombat_ wrote:
I did not know the gas detector was compulsory.
My new van had to have both fire and gas detectors fitted, compulsory, legal etc..

thanks cultana, learn something new every day, will have to look into getting a gas detector fitted

Bevandy2 · Senior Member

I rest my case, no accounting for people who know more than the law which has been formulated from experience to protect people from them selves, go ahead and gas yourselves, then explain to the insurance why they should pay your claim!
Good to see most have a sensible approach here.

I can assure you people have died who had the mental attitude as some shown here.

LPG is serious stuff, to those where the cap fits, don't mess with it in your vanity thinking you know better, do you go around messing with 240v elec because you know better than the local Company? No, I didn't think so!

Sorry don't wish to offend, but after >30 years as a gas rep I have encountered too many self appointed "experts" who's only claim to fame was to condemn the people who made the laws to protect them.

Bevan

_wombat_ · Master (of Mischief)

Bevandy2 wrote:
I rest my case, no accounting for people who know more than the law which has been formulated from experience to protect people from them selves, go ahead and gas yourselves, then explain to the insurance why they should pay your claim!
Good to see most have a sensible approach here.

I can assure you people have died who had the mental attitude as some shown here.

LPG is serious stuff, to those where the cap fits, don't mess with it in your vanity thinking you know better, do you go around messing with 240v elec because you know better than the local Company? No, I didn't think so!

Sorry don't wish to offend, but after >30 years as a gas rep I have encountered too many self appointed "experts" who's only claim to fame was to condemn the people who made the laws to protect them.

Bevan

I take advice from people who know what they are talking about, like people with your background, but can I ask you one question, if I was to 'go ahead and gas myself' how would I 'explain to the insurance company why they should pay pay my claim!' surely I would be dead, so how could I make a claim? biggrin

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Wombat mate, just cos I am ya bestest mate I will make the claim on your behalf. That's what mates do.

_wombat_ · Master (of Mischief)

Dougwe wrote:
Wombat mate, just cos I am ya bestest mate I will make the claim on your behalf. That's what mates do.

how will I get the cash?

Oh bugga I will not need it so you as my best mate can have it all. biggrin

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Thanks mate. When are you setting up your annex next? smile

_wombat_ · Master (of Mischief)

Dougwe wrote:
Thanks mate. When are you setting up your annex next?

I have not been told yet biggrin

ozjohn · Guru

I think I remember reading in the Draft Legislative update last year that annex's will now require a vent (As if they didn't already have enough ventilation) when a gas appliance is to be used within the annex or vented thereto.
But considering my memory is not a good as it once was I could be wrong on this matter. or maybe it was only hard annex's. confuse

As for gas detectors being a legal requirement, what gas(s) and from when?.
Could we please have a link to the relevant regulation.

Cheers, Ozjohn.

D and D · Guru

The "new" rules referred to throughout this thread relate to a change in the applicable Australian Standard AS 5601.2:2013 Gas installations - LP Gas Installations in Caravans and Boats for Non-propulsive Purposes. This standard is referenced in most state gas safety regulations and as such, the requirements of the standards are legally enforceable. However, as the current version of the standard was released in September last year, any new requirements not contained in the previous 2010 version of the standard are generally not applied retrospectively.

Contrary to many of the views expressed in the thread, Australian Standards are not a government agency and while State and Federal governments are consulted in the development and revision of the standards they have no more (and probably less) influence than other members of the development and/or review panels which comprise industry players and experts in the field with both practical and theoretical backgrounds.

If you want to find out the specific requirements youll need to borrow a copy from someone or buy a copy from SAI. This will cost you about $200 for a hard copy and you can order it through this page: http://infostore.saiglobal.com/store/Details.aspx?ProductID=1675075

Cupie · Guru

D and D wrote:
The "new" rules referred to throughout this thread relate to a change in the applicable Australian Standard AS 5601.2:2013 Gas installations - LP Gas Installations in Caravans and Boats for Non-propulsive Purposes. This standard is referenced in most state gas safety regulations and as such, the requirements of the standards are legally enforceable. However, as the current version of the standard was released in September last year, any new requirements not contained in the previous 2010 version of the standard are generally not applied retrospectively.
Then are you saying that 'any new requirements' are 'generally' (whatever that implies) not applied to vans built before the date of release ie. September 2013?
What about for those older vans requiring a gas certificate? Are they tested/inspected against the new/ Sept Standards?
If not what are they tested against?

Contrary to many of the views expressed in the thread, Australian Standards are not a government agency and while State and Federal governments are consulted in the development and revision of the standards they have no more (and probably less) influence than other members of the development and/or review panels which comprise industry players and experts in the field with both practical and theoretical backgrounds.

If you want to find out the specific requirements youll need to borrow a copy from someone or buy a copy from SAI. This will cost you about $200 for a hard copy and you can order it through this page: http://infostore.saiglobal.com/store/Details.aspx?ProductID=1675075

Hi D&D ... I have inserted some questions in your post .. for clarification. Can you help please?

the rocket · Guru

HI everyone, gee, lots of replies.

I have another question that a friend of mine asked me: If the fridge is on the side of the annex and it runs on gas, electric or battery - can the annex be enclosed fully if only running on electricity or battery or is this rule only for gas?

What do you think?

the rocket · Guru

villatranquilla wrote:
I like the idea of the fridge under the awning - gets shaded in summer - but then we don't have a full annex

that's what I thought. it would be cooler for fridge. But not an option for us because we want the use of a full annexe.

the rocket · Guru

_wombat_ wrote:
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
I think the following would be three fairly representative examples of the types of canvas annexes that most people would use.
Surely, having a fridge, or heater, or stove inside one of these running on gas could not possibly be dangerous - except for any possible fire danger perhaps.
I doubt if any of these would have anything like 'restricted airflow' to cause any potential danger of suffocation using a gas appliance.

Cheers - John
John, I do get your point but it looks like all these vans are in C/p's and would be on power not gas, I do agree with you that having a fridge, or heater, or stove inside one of these running on gas could not possibly be dangerous - except for any possible fire danger perhaps.

Oh. Wombat, words are beyond me looking at your new avatar.

_wombat_ · Master (of Mischief)

The Rocket, Vic made me do that biggrin

the rocket · Guru

_wombat_ wrote:
The Rocket, Vic made me do that

Ahh. ya mate, made you do it, did he.

_wombat_ · Master (of Mischief)

the rocket wrote:
_wombat_ wrote:
The Rocket, Vic made me do that
Ahh. ya mate, made you do it, did he.

yes he did look here http://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t57851742/the-twins/

-- Edited by _wombat_ on Thursday 19th of June 2014 09:50:24 PM

D and D · Guru

Cupie, I am not a lawyer nor a state regulator but my understanding is that the requirements of the standard in force at the time a certificate of compliance is sought is what must be demonstrated. Hence, if a caravan was required to have a certificate of compliance issued under the 2010 version of AS 5601 and one was obtained then that is generally considered sufficient and there is no expectation that a new certificate would be required even if the 2013 version of the standard had different requirements. However, if a certificate of compliance was required and the owner of the caravan failed to obtain one until after the 2013 version came into force then they would be required to conform to the requirements of the 2013 version.

If this is a concern for you I strongly suggest you contact you state regulator for clarification.

the rocket · Guru

D and D wrote:
Cupie, I am not a lawyer nor a state regulator but my understanding is that the requirements of the standard in force at the time a certificate of compliance is sought is what must be demonstrated. Hence, if a caravan was required to have a certificate of compliance issued under the 2010 version of AS 5601 and one was obtained then that is generally considered sufficient and there is no expectation that a new certificate would be required even if the 2013 version of the standard had different requirements. However, if a certificate of compliance was required and the owner of the caravan failed to obtain one until after the 2013 version came into force then they would be required to conform to the requirements of the 2013 version.

If this is a concern for you I strongly suggest you contact you state regulator for clarification.

hi, thanks d and d. I am wondering if this is a state rule or is it all Australia. It is a concern because we want to live full time in van and at times spend months at one place and when we want to stop travelling we want to pull up at a van park and want the option to add a hard annexe.rocket.

Cupie · Guru

D and D wrote:
Cupie, I am not a lawyer nor a state regulator but my understanding is that the requirements of the standard in force at the time a certificate of compliance is sought is what must be demonstrated. Hence, if a caravan was required to have a certificate of compliance issued under the 2010 version of AS 5601 and one was obtained then that is generally considered sufficient and there is no expectation that a new certificate would be required even if the 2013 version of the standard had different requirements. However, if a certificate of compliance was required and the owner of the caravan failed to obtain one until after the 2013 version came into force then they would be required to conform to the requirements of the 2013 version.

If this is a concern for you I strongly suggest you contact you state regulator for clarification.

It seems that to sell a caravan in Qld you need current roadworthy & Gas certificate. Which means that the van is tested against the current gas standard.

It seems that the current standard is quite prescriptive about venting ... I understand that the vent must be larger if it has a fly screen & even larger if it has the midgie resistant type screen. I'm waiting to see a copy of the latest amendments.

Only of academic interest to me as I don't intend buying or selling a van for the forseeable future.