Grey water outlets - our new van has two

MOLLUSCAN · Senior Member

Grey water outlets - our new van has two

Baz421 · Guru

I think Millard's answer is symptomatic of many manufacturers,,, ie they think they know what we want and cheapest/easiest option will suffice.

See if you can join under floor into one outlet if Millard wont fix.

By the way when you looked another van prior to purchase was it set up the same? If not complain.

Good luck.

landy · Guru

MOLLUSCAN wrote:

Hello everyone,
At Easter we took our new van away for its first big run. It performed well but it is a bit messy hooking up the grey water to the waste pipe. We have separate outlet pipes for sink and shower and they are placed on either side of the wheel. We linked them together with short lengths of flexible pipe draining into the waste hose. It works OK but it looks clumsy and is fiddly to set up.
Does anyone out there have a neat and more permanent solution? Looking around I note that most vans have only 1 outlet. We asked Millard and they said it is to allow grey water to be drained in separate areas.
Cheers

Sorey misread post. It must be getting late. Landy

-- Edited by landy on Monday 12th of May 2014 11:44:20 PM

KevinC · Senior Member

Having one outlet may introduce new issues. Any blockage in the waste hose, even water lying in it because it's not exactly flat can cause water from the sink to 'reflux' into the shower. Not nice.
Be prepared to experiment a bit. I think joining the hoses at ground level like you do is preventing a problem that your van manufacturer has recognized and is trying to avoid.

SnowT · Guru

One thing that you must take into account is that there is most likely 2 Grey water tank's.. in 2 completely different locations..

the Link of Both tank's could cause issues..
- So if they are in 2 different locations, I can see the reasons behind their 2 separate outlets..

Juergen..

On a side note I will be having 2-3 grey water tank's.. so there shall be 2/3 draining tap's.. to make sure they all get emptied..

MOLLUSCAN · Senior Member

KevinC wrote:
Having one outlet may introduce new issues. Any blockage in the waste hose, even water lying in it because it's not exactly flat can cause water from the sink to 'reflux' into the shower. Not nice.
Be prepared to experiment a bit. I think joining the hoses at ground level like you do is preventing a problem that your van manufacturer has recognized and is trying to avoid.

Yes, we have experienced the reflux when we adjusted the hoses. Messy! We do not have any grey water tanks just outlets from sink and shower.

KevinC · Senior Member

OK, here's more of my experience so you don't do what I did.
Our van is a new Jayco Sterling. The two outlets are side by side at the rear. Jayco provide a Y shaped joining piece to connect the outlets to the waste hose. The clear plastic pipe they provide to connect the lot together, is quite long, so the waste hose is at ground level or almost. Being a tidy freak, I thought the long pipes looked untidy so I shortened the lot so the two outlets join together just below floor level. Bad idea. That's what caused the reflux. I think Jayco put the join as low as possible because that lessens the chance of reflux. The basin in the ensuite incidentally joins into the pipe from the kitchen sink, and there'll never be a reflux problem in the basin because it's the same height as the sink. The shower must be kept isolated as much as possible.
However. All isn't lost. I believe there's an inline non-return valve available that can be grafted into the pvc shower drain pipe and will stop any water traveling back up into the shower. I can't remember what it's called (because I'm getting mentally feeble) but someone here will know the name for sure. That valve would fix the problem forever, regardless of what you did with the waste hose.
The grey water tank could be another solution. If the pipes emptied into the tank independently then there wouldn't be any back pressure up the shower drain. The mind boggles though at what could happen if you were driving along with a full grey tank and the water was sloshing around looking for somewhere to go!
Keep looking for a solution ... I need it too.

KevinC · Senior Member

The valves I was referring to are "Hepvo." Google them.

deverall11 · Guru

We use a sink plug in the shower with a weight on it so that the pressure does not blow it off. Works well and never breaks or blocks up.

KevinC · Senior Member

deverall11 wrote:
We use a sink plug in the shower with a weight on it so that the pressure does not blow it off. Works well and never breaks or blocks up.

Sometimes the simple solutions are the best. I'll see if I can find a plug for our shower.

oldbobsbus · Guru

Can I ask a silly question..???

Why not just run out 2 short/long hoses?????
or one short one long...

MOLLUSCAN · Senior Member

Thank you everyone for you replies. It is a good idea not to have the V connection too close to the shower. My husband Ron, has come up with a solution to stop reflux. He is planning to put in an overflow pipe in the shower outlet pipe which will drain onto the ground if any reflux occurs. I'll let you know how it goes.

MOLLUSCAN · Senior Member

Hi Oldbobsbus,

Thats what the manufacturer is assuming we will do. We just think it's a bit untidy and if we are in a CV park they may not want our grey water on the ground. Most parks have only one hole in the ground for waste water and 2 hoses don't fit. So, we would have to run one waste into a bucket.

Baz421 · Guru

MOLLUSCAN wrote:
Hi Oldbobsbus,
Thats what the manufacturer is assuming we will do. We just think it's a bit untidy and if we are in a CV park they may not want our grey water on the ground. Most parks have only one hole in the ground for waste water and 2 hoses don't fit. So, we would have to run one waste into a bucket.

I am either confused or a bit ignorant here.

You say you are fitting an over flow pipe but you say many CP's don't like overflow (quite right),,, so my question, respectfully, is what are you trying to achieve???

Couldn't you run 2 hoses from the van to ground level and join with a Y piece into one hose and run into drain. This would solve the problem surely and not cause problems because both hoses would drain easily as the weight of the water would drain away???? If this is a problem don't shower and let sink water go out at the same time. Look for simple solutions is my suggestion.

Don't rush to a solution that may not be a solution at all.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers Baz

KevinC · Senior Member

I'm thinking that the problem lies in the size of the PVC drain pipes. Keeping in mind there's really only a problem when the waste hose is blocked by water, like when it's running slightly uphill or has loops in it, the sink full of water is finding it's own level, and that includes the shower floor! If the underfloor pipes were larger they could accommodate a sink full of water and allow it to trickle away slowly. Thus the two pipes could connect into one outlet, which was the original issue, without fear of reflux. I'm not really suggesting we replace all our underfloor plumbing with larger diameter pipes, yet, but I don't thing an overflow is the best answer either.
In your case Molluscan, I think you could join the underfloor pipes, then run that one pipe into a larger diameter pipe which would temporarily hold the water until it trickled away. Like a little retention basin. When joining the pipes I'd make the shower run the longest. The sink would drain quickly (ours doesn't) because the water would have somewhere to go.
At the end of the day though, that Hepvo valve to protect the shower could still be the simplest failsafe solution.

KevinC · Senior Member

as the weight of the water would drain away???? Baz

That's the problem Baz. It doesn't. We've all picked up our waste hose and had to let water drain out of it. Well the water lying in the hose is a blockage and when a large volume of water rushes down the pipes, the ensuing gurgle of water, air and diced carrot has to go somewhere, usually into the shower. Both Millard and Jayco have addressed this in their own ways, the Millard solution is to keep the sink and shower physically separated, the Jayco solution is to join the two at ground level and hope it works. A cupful of water from the sink is fine, half a sink is probably fine too. The waste hose lying flat and facing downhill is fine too. But anything less than ideal will cause a mess. There are some simple solutions we can use in the meantime, but sooner or later we'll find a fix that allows for less than ideal circumstances. Then we can enjoy the quick setup of one waste hose and peace of mind at the same time.

-- Edited by KevinC on Thursday 15th of May 2014 09:47:49 AM

KFT · Guru

The drain from our shower has a "waterless" valve in it but I cannot think of the name of the thing.

it prevents water from the sink surcharging into the shower. you can buy them at plumbing supplies places and they fit in line so are easy to install.

I also use a 50mm drain hose from the 40mm fitting on the outside of the van so the water drains away pretty quickly.

I will try to find the name of that valve and post it unless someone else can remember what it is called.

frank

edit: found it. It is called a Hepvo waterless valve.

see it here: http://www.hepvo.com/

-- Edited by KFT on Thursday 15th of May 2014 10:34:17 AM

Baz421 · Guru

KevinC wrote:

as the weight of the water would drain away???? Baz
That's the problem Baz. It doesn't. We've all picked up our waste hose and had to let water drain out of it. Well the water lying in the hose is a blockage and when a large volume of water rushes down the pipes, the ensuing gurgle of water, air and diced carrot has to go somewhere, usually into the shower. Both Millard and Jayco have addressed this in their own ways, the Millard solution is to keep the sink and shower physically separated, the Jayco solution is to join the two at ground level and hope it works. A cupful of water from the sink is fine, half a sink is probably fine too. The waste hose lying flat and facing downhill is fine too. But anything less than ideal will cause a mess. There are some simple solutions we can use in the meantime, but sooner or later we'll find a fix that allows for less than ideal circumstances. Then we can enjoy the quick setup of one waste hose and peace of mind at the same time.

-- Edited by KevinC on Thursday 15th of May 2014 09:47:49 AM

Yes we all have this type of issue ie running waste water uphill to drain etc but the distance from van floor/outlet has X amount of water to push through the hose "normally".

Sounds like there is more to this issue than I realise anyway.

Maybe slow down the water out of sink or have a larger non convoluted (ie smooth bore) waste hose???? Smooth bore hose will drain quicker but is harder to roll up,, but it may be a practical solution in the short term at least.

As far as Hepvo valve concerned do they leak when hair etc from shower accumulates or can you flush through.

-- Edited by Baz421 on Thursday 15th of May 2014 08:52:24 PM

KFT · Guru

Baz we have been using ours for more than 3 years now and not a problem yet.

frank

Baz421 · Guru

KFT wrote:
Baz we have been using ours for more than 3 years now and not a problem yet.

frank

Fair enough Frank,,, 1st hand experience always comes up trumps. Thanks

MOLLUSCAN · Senior Member

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. The reflux into the shower seems to be a bigger problem for those with only one outlet. Perhaps we are better off with our two outlets. After all your comments we think we will have two hoses and carry a Y connector to join them if necessary if the drain is too small for two. Thanks again