Copper v flexi gas bottle connections

dorian · Guru

RE: Copper v flexi gas bottle connections

oldtrack123 · Guru

oldbobsbus wrote:
BESTyou find the item No. in as5601-2013 that prohibits the use of certified flexible pigtail hoses on caravans and put it here Peter.....
I believe you statement to be incorrect and I thing you are scaremongering..

HI Bob

SCAREMONGERING?? confuse

You do like to make that suggestion ,Don't you

Some time ago about ^ months Isaw that requirement on a Gov gas office site

So when we came to sell our motor home last Nov

I expected to have to update it BEFORE SALE

I called a LICENSED GAS FITTER

THe first thing he checked was the gas bottle instalation

Camestraight to me & said

"Mate ' your bottle installation does not comply to the NEW standards.

The REG has to be TWO stage & IT has to be above the GAs bottle outlet & not flexable has to be copper tube "

I HAD foreseen the space problem as there was very little head room above the bottle

But HE did just manage to fit it all so it complied

BUT if flexible hose of ANY TYPE WAS ALLOWED it would have been an easy job!!

EVery thing else was OK, so I got the certificate but it cost $450

By the way for other's info the only connection you can legally make is the connection direct to the gas bottle!!!

THOSE "flexible hose" you can buy are for replacement purposes since the standards are not retrospective

PeterQ

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 15th of February 2014 12:19:33 AM

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 15th of February 2014 12:24:46 AM

brian · Guru

dorian wrote:
brian wrote:
There is no restriction on the use of the correctly rated flexible hose from the bottle to the regulator.
It seems that tradespeople can't agree on even the most fundamental questions. This is why the relevant standards should be made freely available to everybody, not just tradespeople. No offence meant, but I'd rather get the information directly from the horse's mouth.

Dorian, you could do what I just did and look up the legal requirements on this Victorian Government site.

See clause (a) half way down in the left column on page 4.

You might also note the requirement for a gas-fuse or similar to be fitted.

As you are no doubt aware that most vans are manufactured down there, perhaps this is close enough to the horse's mouth for you.

Google is your friend.

Legendts · Senior Member

the ginger nomad wrote:
Sorry everyone,but if you look closely you will note the OUTLET pipe from the regulator is a copper pipe with protective sleeve! Ths is exactly the same as in our van.I believe what was posted about the crap in the reg meant that the flexible line was between the bottle an the reg NOT after the reg.
John

At long last some common sense. Thanks John and I agree with you totally, the photo shows NO flexible hoses, they are all copper!

I also agree with Brian, as long as you get your gas bottle in roughly the same orientation as the one coming out there will be enough flex in the pigtails to do it easily using his (Brian's) explanation.

This is how posts go off topic so quickly, by people assuming, instead of reading and understanding each post. The rubber compounds in the flexible hoses breaking down over time is another issue and I too have seen a number of failed regulators where this has been the cause. Having copper with pigtails, you will never see this problem.

No, I'm not a gas fitter, just had 40+ years in the oil & gas industry and have seen enough "poor" as well as a lot of excellent work practices.

oldtrack123 · Guru

HI

I just checkedthe VIC ESV site

http://www.esv.vic.gov.au/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=WKDuDk6Ozpw%3D&tabid=341&mid=1541

AN APPROVED flexible pigtail may be used provided it has a "GAS fuse" or similar immediately before the regulator
[Protection against Split hose?]OR copper TUBE shall be used##
#
PeterQ
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-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 15th of February 2014 12:42:37 AM

oldtrack123 · Guru

dorian wrote:
brian wrote:
There is no restriction on the use of the correctly rated flexible hose from the bottle to the regulator.
It seems that tradespeople can't agree on even the most fundamental questions. This is why the relevant standards should be made freely available to everybody, not just tradespeople. No offence meant, but I'd rather get the information directly from the horse's mouth.

HI Dorian

ANYbody can BUY the Standards

Go your hardest

BUT that does not ALLOW ANY body to do the work biggrin

Mr B2 · Senior Member

Copper pipe work hardens, so after a while the vibration and movement of a Coach or caravan will actually snap the copper pipe,

The pig tail eliminates a lot of the Vibration and movement, But the copper pipe will eventually fail,

I have also spent forty years manufacturing pressure vessels of all sizes, Up to 4000 PSI on test pressure,

dorian · Guru

oldtrack123 wrote:
ANYbody can BUY the Standards
Go your hardest
BUT that does not ALLOW ANY body to do the work

I don't want to pay for any standard, nor should I have to. And I certainly don't want to rely on hearsay, even if it comes from a tradesperson, otherwise I might be conned into paying for work that isn't necessary.

dorian · Guru

oldtrack123 wrote:

HI

I just checkedthe VIC ESV site
http://www.esv.vic.gov.au/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=WKDuDk6Ozpw%3D&tabid=341&mid=1541

AN APPROVED flexible pigtail may be used provided it has a "GAS fuse" or similar immediately before the regulator
[Protection against Split hose?]OR copper TUBE shall be used##
#
PeterQ
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$
8
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/

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%%
% *

%*

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''

%'% -%
%
0
;< % '
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-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 15th of February 2014 12:42:37 AM

???

dorian · Guru

brian wrote:
dorian wrote:
brian wrote:
There is no restriction on the use of the correctly rated flexible hose from the bottle to the regulator.
It seems that tradespeople can't agree on even the most fundamental questions. This is why the relevant standards should be made freely available to everybody, not just tradespeople. No offence meant, but I'd rather get the information directly from the horse's mouth.

Dorian, you could do what I just did and look up the legal requirements on this Victorian Government site.

See clause (a) half way down in the left column on page 4.
You might also note the requirement for a gas-fuse or similar to be fitted.
As you are no doubt aware that most vans are manufactured down there, perhaps this is close enough to the horse's mouth for you.
Google is your friend.

Thanks. The document does provide the needed information, but my objection still stands, namely that the actual standards document should be freely available to all. Google doesn't turn up anything in that regard (I searched before posting, as I always do).

BTW, the Office of Gas Safety document was issued in 2004. AS 5601 may have been revised since then.

-- Edited by dorian on Saturday 15th of February 2014 05:51:19 AM

native pepper · Senior Member

The most important thing to realise, is 99% of all the problems you get in regard to gas and all van or MH work, have all be done by so called qualified professionals. Yet the complaints are never ending and costly, which to any logical thinking person would make them wonder and check the facts.

In all my years of travelling and building, yet to come across a DIY who ever has any problems with their gas or electrical set ups. It's always comes from the supposed registered professional installations. People need to understand these regulations are devised by office based people, not hands on knowledgeable people and administered by the same types. Common sense and understanding of the situation are the most important thing in doing anything which relates to safety, ease of use and repair.

We don't have any fixed hoses or pipes, for years have always used directly connected regulators to gas bottles and flexible s/s hose from there, never have any problems and drive on many rough dirt roads. Seen lots of professional setups using copper in situations where you have constant vibrations, which is a perfect recipe for future failure. You see it in building situations where there are vibrations cause by water pressure and copper slowly breaks down under the strain and you see it regularly on the road. Copper is very soft, you cam break it with little effort and is well known for not being able to handle any form of vibration or stress.

When these supposed professionals get to the point where they can build gas systems which are not prone to problems, then they can claim superiority. Until then the facts support the majority of problems come from supposed professional installations. Lots of the work I get on the road, is fixing stuff ups by so called educated trades people, who have charged a fortune and stuffed it completely because they don't have the actual practical experience and knowledge of the situation they are working with. Plumbers and electricians are the worst offenders in the bush.

The bottom line is, if you do the work and get it passed, then that's all that counts. If you don't take the time to learn and understand your rig and how it operates, then you put up with paying over and over for high cost professional work, that by many accounts here and across the country prove are useless and in many cases dangerous. Never come across a self built rig that has any such problems, just the opposite, they are innovative, low cost and successful.

Makes me laugh at those who constantly deride those who take responsibility for their lives, what they have and live in, when their own lives are so narrow, miserable and empty.

Mr B2 · Senior Member

native pepper wrote:
The most important thing to realise, is 99% of all the problems you get in regard to gas and all van or MH work, have all be done by so called qualified professionals. Yet the complaints are never ending and costly, which to any logical thinking person would make them wonder and check the facts.

In all my years of travelling and building, yet to come across a DIY who ever has any problems with their gas or electrical set ups. It's always comes from the supposed registered professional installations. People need to understand these regulations are devised by office based people, not hands on knowledgeable people and administered by the same types. Common sense and understanding of the situation are the most important thing in doing anything which relates to safety, ease of use and repair.

We don't have any fixed hoses or pipes, for years have always used directly connected regulators to gas bottles and flexible s/s hose from there, never have any problems and drive on many rough dirt roads. Seen lots of professional setups using copper in situations where you have constant vibrations, which is a perfect recipe for future failure. You see it in building situations where there are vibrations cause by water pressure and copper slowly breaks down under the strain and you see it regularly on the road. Copper is very soft, you cam break it with little effort and is well known for not being able to handle any form of vibration or stress.

When these supposed professionals get to the point where they can build gas systems which are not prone to problems, then they can claim superiority. Until then the facts support the majority of problems come from supposed professional installations. Lots of the work I get on the road, is fixing stuff ups by so called educated trades people, who have charged a fortune and stuffed it completely because they don't have the actual practical experience and knowledge of the situation they are working with. Plumbers and electricians are the worst offenders in the bush.

The bottom line is, if you do the work and get it passed, then that's all that counts. If you don't take the time to learn and understand your rig and how it operates, then you put up with paying over and over for high cost professional work, that by many accounts here and across the country prove are useless and in many cases dangerous. Never come across a self built rig that has any such problems, just the opposite, they are innovative, low cost and successful.

Makes me laugh at those who constantly deride those who take responsibility for their lives, what they have and live in, when their own lives are so narrow, miserable and empty.

You hit the nail right on the head with that post,

I dont have the Certificates, I dont have the use for them, But I do have fifty years experience of fixing other peoples mistakes,

Some of them were quite horrendous, But they were done originally by professionals with all the tickets, At great cost to the owner,

An installation is different, to making it work successfully for years to come with out problems,

Especially when its a moving vehicle, That has problems an installer usually hasn't got a clue on, They dont travel, So vibration and movement dont enter the picture,

brian · Guru

Mr B2 wrote:
native pepper wrote:
The most important thing to realise, is 99% of all the problems you get in regard to gas and all van or MH work, have all be done by so called qualified professionals. Yet the complaints are never ending and costly, which to any logical thinking person would make them wonder and check the facts.

In all my years of travelling and building, yet to come across a DIY who ever has any problems with their gas or electrical set ups. It's always comes from the supposed registered professional installations. People need to understand these regulations are devised by office based people, not hands on knowledgeable people and administered by the same types. Common sense and understanding of the situation are the most important thing in doing anything which relates to safety, ease of use and repair.

We don't have any fixed hoses or pipes, for years have always used directly connected regulators to gas bottles and flexible s/s hose from there, never have any problems and drive on many rough dirt roads. Seen lots of professional setups using copper in situations where you have constant vibrations, which is a perfect recipe for future failure. You see it in building situations where there are vibrations cause by water pressure and copper slowly breaks down under the strain and you see it regularly on the road. Copper is very soft, you cam break it with little effort and is well known for not being able to handle any form of vibration or stress.

When these supposed professionals get to the point where they can build gas systems which are not prone to problems, then they can claim superiority. Until then the facts support the majority of problems come from supposed professional installations. Lots of the work I get on the road, is fixing stuff ups by so called educated trades people, who have charged a fortune and stuffed it completely because they don't have the actual practical experience and knowledge of the situation they are working with. Plumbers and electricians are the worst offenders in the bush.

The bottom line is, if you do the work and get it passed, then that's all that counts. If you don't take the time to learn and understand your rig and how it operates, then you put up with paying over and over for high cost professional work, that by many accounts here and across the country prove are useless and in many cases dangerous. Never come across a self built rig that has any such problems, just the opposite, they are innovative, low cost and successful.

Makes me laugh at those who constantly deride those who take responsibility for their lives, what they have and live in, when their own lives are so narrow, miserable and empty.
You hit the nail right on the head with that post,
I dont have the Certificates, I dont have the use for them, But I do have fifty years experience of fixing other peoples mistakes,
Some of them were quite horrendous, But they were done originally by professionals with all the tickets, At great cost to the owner,
An installation is different, to making it work successfully for years to come with out problems,
Especially when its a moving vehicle, That has problems an installer usually hasn't got a clue on, They dont travel, So vibration and movement dont enter the picture,

I personally see a number of things wrong with that post.

First is that if in all your years of travelling you have never seen any do it yourselfer who has problems with their setup then you must travel with your eyes and ears shut tight.

Second is that the regulations are NOT devised by office based people. They are devised by a wide range of industry professionals, each with many years experience in that particular field, and with all of the relevant data available to them of the associated problems and risks involved in all of the procedures. The rules are only drawn up after considerable consultation with all parties. Most rules firstly come out in draft form for serious dissection and analysis by the industry in general, and it is only after it passes this test that it may become a standard.

Do you really...really...really think that you know better than these people??

Third is that Copper suffers from a thing called wear hardening which means that constant bending etc. causes it to harden, so it's not its softness that is the problem as you suggest because that is when it is least likely to be damaged. A fact that any plumber would be aware of but that you obviously are not. Is that a vote for DIY knowledge?

Fourth is the rubbish about professionals getting it wrong more often than DIYers, just not the case at all. Part of the problem with the RV industry is that many of the RVs are built and fitted out by non-trade qualified DIYers who neither know or adhere to the regulations, or understand the implications of what they do.

Fifth is your so called "bottom line". First you rubbish these professionals as knowing nothing, and then you take it to one of them for certification. If he knows nothing as you suggest, then how do you know that he is accurately gauging the quality of your own work?

Sixth is your last statement. It's scary to think that you truly believe that you are only putting your own life at risk... Whenever you do suspect work, or in fact - when you do anything that projects into another person's sphere of existence, then you are risking their safety..Even if you don't take responsibility for that fact.

This sort of attitude that you display is one reason that standards are produced and laws made to enforce their compliance.

It has been often said that rules are made to protect fools from themselves, but they also serve to protect other folk from those fools.

deverall11 · Guru

Our vans, as many others we have seen, has the flexible pipes feeding the INLET. From the regulator (OUTLET) is copper pipe.

native pepper · Senior Member

If I don't understand what someone has said or written and am interested, I ask them to explain, not abuse and try to demean them. Only the inadequate have that approach.

It's impossible for people to learn when some spend their entire time here, trying to stop any form of knowledge being given, with doesn't fit with their narrow, simple and very controlled life experience.

I learnt more from bush mechanics, sparkies and builders, than from all the apprenticeships and specialised courses I've undertaken during my long life. Plus I deal in facts, not programmed delusion.

So from this point on, will completely ignore those with that infantile and primitive mindset, no matter what they say.

oldtrack123 · Guru

dorian wrote:
oldtrack123 wrote:
ANYbody can BUY the Standards
Go your hardest
BUT that does not ALLOW ANY body to do the work
I don't want to pay for any standard, nor should I have to. And I certainly don't want to rely on hearsay, even if it comes from a tradesperson, otherwise I might be conned into paying for work that isn't necessary.

HI Dorian

Well you are out of luck ,The Standards are not FREE in most countries"

THEY are all copyright protected

So unless you can find a dodgy download site your out of luck.!

PeterQ

oldtrack123 · Guru

dorian wrote:

BTW, the Office of Gas Safety document was issued in 2004. AS 5601 may have been revised since then.

-- Edited by dorian on Saturday 15th of February 2014 05:51:19 AM

HI Dorian

YES, it has been updated quite recently biggrin

I have not been able to obtain the FULL new STandard but have obtained extracts from various gov sites

PeterQ

brian · Guru

native pepper wrote:
If I don't understand what someone has said or written and am interested, I ask them to explain, not abuse and try to demean them. Only the inadequate have that approach.

It's impossible for people to learn when some spend their entire time here, trying to stop any form of knowledge being given, with doesn't fit with their narrow, simple and very controlled life experience.

I learnt more from bush mechanics, sparkies and builders, than from all the apprenticeships and specialised courses I've undertaken during my long life. Plus I deal in facts, not programmed delusion.

So from this point on, will completely ignore those with that infantile and primitive mindset, no matter what they say.

I assume that you are replying to my comments, so I will clarify my position.

Firstly, you were not saying that you did not understand something, and I certainly didn't misunderstand what you were saying, you were being demeaning to trades and professional people in general, most of whom I would put up against any bushy's technical expertise any day of the week .

Sure, there are trades and professional folk who have a lack of knowledge in fields, or sections of their own field, that may differ from their particular area of expertise (any one field is so extensive and the rules so complex that no-one could hope to have intimate knowledge of it all), but they will normally endeavour to get the right answers, and will almost always have a decent passing knowledge of safe practices far and above those of DIYers who will often take the easiest path with little regard to possibly unforeseen consequences.

Secondly, you were the one "trying to stop any form of knowledge" as you so succinctly put it, by inferring that a qualified person's often hard learned opinion is second rate to your bushy taught expertise.

Thirdly, you may have "learned more from bush mechanics than from all the apprenticeships and specialised courses that you took", (I have had the misfortune of having apprentices like that myself), but that in no way indicates that you learned the correct and safe procedures. The very mention that you continue to have the RV regulator fitted directly to the bottle when that is clearly contrary to the rules and is dangerous practice is singular proof of this. The fact that you have "gotten away with it for years" says more about your good fairy's ability than your own.

Bushys' techniques are usually to get the job done as quickly and easily as possible using anything that comes to hand (much like many DIYers) and, whilst I have due regard for their talents to get out of a tight spot, their work generally falls far short of meeting acceptable standards of normal practice, and rarely conforms to legal requirements if for no other reason than that they do not know what those requirements are.

Contrary to what you may believe, rules and standards are not formulated just to make your life harder, they are generally there to make your life longer and healthier. This is especially the case with regard to electrical and gas installations where just one mistake can be fatal, no second chance. Electricians and Plumbers go to school for up to 5 years plus the same time on the job before they are deemed qualified to carry out the procedures that you presume to learn from a bush mechanic who may have only sufficient knowledge to get the thing working no matter how safe it really is.

A case in point:- A few years ago, I was asked to inspect an electrical installation in a home where the lady was receiving "tingles" whenever she replaced a light globe or touched the fitting. Her DIY husband had recently replaced the lights with metal oyster fittings. The house lighting had been wired as "active centres" and no earths (it was originally wired before light fitting earthing became law) which means that the lighting points had active, neutral and a switch wire at each point, ie 3 terminations to be made. The new light fittings had 3 termination points, 2 on the lamp holder and one on the metal of the light fitting. The switch wire and neutral went into the lampholder (it was discovered that he had numerous attempts at moving the connections around before he got this bit right). The active (which wasn't needed for the light to work) naturally went to the terminal on the frame of the fitting (after all it was the only place left to put it). Everything worked fine as far as the DIYer was concerned, but it was a fatality just waiting for a victim. He had done this in every room in the house.

Finally, your averred lack of regard for your own safety and the implied lack of regard for other's safety was very concerning, if not for that comment, I would not have bothered to respond at all.

oldtrack123 · Guru

native pepper wrote:
[1]The most important thing to realise, is 99% of all the problems you get in regard to gas and all van or MH work, have all be done by so called qualified professionals. Yet the complaints are never ending and costly, which to any logical thinking person would make them wonder and check the facts.

[2]In all my years of travelling and building, yet to come across a DIY who ever has any problems with their gas or electrical set ups. It's always comes from the supposed registered professional installations.

[3]People need to understand these regulations are devised by office based people, not hands on knowledgeable people and administered by the same types. Common sense and understanding of the situation are the most important thing in doing anything which relates to safety, ease of use and repair.

[4]We don't have any fixed hoses or pipes, for years have always used directly connected regulators to gas bottles and flexible s/s hose from there, never have any problems and drive on many rough dirt roads. Seen lots of professional setups using copper in situations where you have constant vibrations, which is a perfect recipe for future failure. You see it in building situations where there are vibrations cause by water pressure and copper slowly breaks down under the strain and you see it regularly on the road. Copper is very soft, you cam break it with little effort and is well known for not being able to handle any form of vibration or stress.

[5]When these supposed professionals get to the point where they can build gas systems which are not prone to problems, then they can claim superiority. Until then the facts support the majority of problems come from supposed professional installations. Lots of the work I get on the road, is fixing stuff ups by so called educated trades people, who have charged a fortune and stuffed it completely because they don't have the actual practical experience and knowledge of the situation they are working with. Plumbers and electricians are the worst offenders in the bush.

[6]The bottom line is, if you do the work and get it passed, then that's all that counts. If you don't take the time to learn and understand your rig and how it operates, then you put up with paying over and over for high cost professional work, that by many accounts here and across the country prove are useless and in many cases dangerous. Never come across a self built rig that has any such problems, just the opposite, they are innovative, low cost and successful.

[7]Makes me laugh at those who constantly deride those who take responsibility for their lives, what they have and live in, when their own lives are so narrow, miserable and empty.

HI

Well, what A looong diatribe

[1]Perhaps you have some figures on ALL those problems attributed to LICENCED personsdoing the work??

Actually I woul suggest the instances of faiure due to design & workmanship would be very low

THAT being due to the stringency of the "rules" & "regulations" ,"Standards"governing what SHALL BE DONE & WHO can do such work

[2]Perhaps some actual incidences???

[3] Weell what can I say eccept you do not have clue as to how the standards both gas & electrical.come about & are updated

Since the STandards have been in use for many many years the FIrst Aus Electrical Standard was produced arould 1934 so we will only talk about updates revisions & ammemdments

You are totally WRONGf you truely believe they are drawn up by 'office"people

The various "committee members "ALL have experience & expertise ion the subject

When ammendments or revisions are considered necessary dueto many reasons

such as :

Changes in technology or equipment

Known reported incidents

Forseen /potentential problems

Drafts of the prposed changes are sent out to a wide cross section of the industry for comment

Those comments are then reviewed by that "EXPERT "of committee of EXPERIENCED people & the final document is drawn up for printing

Aaaah Common sense

What I have seen done by persons who thought they had "common sense"

Often common sense is only in the mind of the person who THINKS he has common sense biggrin

We do see a lot of those on fora

[4] Unfortunately, we, do not know what ; "WE' you are referring to, or the field you are referring to

Perhaps some details????

[5] As above,what field are you referring to.??

[6] If you do the work & get it passed

Strange statement since ALL Aus STATES insist that ONLY LICENSED GAS FITTERS shall do such work

Perhaps again tell EXACTLT WHAT work you suggest ANYONE can do

[7

POT /Black come to my mind biggrin

PeterQ

oldbobsbus · Guru

oldtrack123 wrote:

HI
Well, what A looong diatribe
[1]Perhaps you have some figures on ALL those problems attributed to LICENCED personsdoing the work??
Actually I woul suggest the instances of faiure due to design & workmanship would be very low
THAT being due to the stringency of the "rules" & "regulations" ,"Standards"governing what SHALL BE DONE & WHO can do such work

[2]Perhaps some actual incidences???

[3] Weell what can I say eccept you do not have clue as to how the standards both gas & electrical.come about & are updated
Since the STandards have been in use for many many years the FIrst Aus Electrical Standard was produced arould 1934 so we will only talk about updates revisions & ammemdments
You are totally WRONGf you truely believe they are drawn up by 'office"people
The various "committee members "ALL have experience & expertise ion the subject
When ammendments or revisions are considered necessary dueto many reasons
such as :
Changes in technology or equipment
Known reported incidents
Forseen /potentential problems
Drafts of the prposed changes are sent out to a wide cross section of the industry for comment
Those comments are then reviewed by that "EXPERT "of committee of EXPERIENCED people & the final document is drawn up for printing
Aaaah Common sense
What I have seen done by persons who thought they had "common sense"
Often common sense is only in the mind of the person who THINKS he has common sense
We do see a lot of those on fora
[4] Unfortunately, we, do not know what ; "WE' you are referring to, or the field you are referring to
Perhaps some details????
[5] As above,what field are you referring to.??
[6] If you do the work & get it passed
Strange statement since ALL Aus STATES insist that ONLY LICENSED GAS FITTERS shall do such work
Perhaps again tell EXACTLT WHAT work you suggest ANYONE can do
[7
POT /Black come to my mind

PeterQ

Well said Peter...

I have given up offering advice to the knowitalls that think we spent 5 years of our life obtaining our licence and the following 30yrs applying our knowledge to our given trade; confuse

and continually having to repair work that was done by those knowitalls that failed..

We offer advice here only to be howled down by those knowitalls that really have NFI about the things they are talking about.. disbelief

My advice has now dried up except to those that are willing to head it.. like I might add the OP of this thread. biggrin

oldtrack123 · Guru

oldbobsbus wrote:
but when it comes time to change them I would replace them with woven flex pigtails with the yellow tracer and you should be able to get the place you buy them from to change them over for you or recommend a licenced LPGas fitter to do it for you.. the hoses themselves aren't cheap but I would have thought $200 just a little high..

Maybe if your plumber mate can't do it for you he may be able to get a licenced fitter to do it for you..
Ohhhh and you may need to get your mate to buy the hoses for you as most Plumbers supply places will only sell LPGas fittings to licence holders I know thats the case with Tradelink..

HI Bob

Best ADD ,provided you get a gas fuse fitted to EACH bottle before the reg/s.

/

PeterQ

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 15th of February 2014 08:40:18 PM

oldtrack123 · Guru

oldbobsbus wrote: well said Peter...
I have given up offering advice to the knowitalls that think we spent 5 years of our life obtaining our licence and the following 30yrs applying our knowledge to our given trade;
and continually having to repair work that was done by those knowitalls that failed..
We offer advice here only to be howled down by those knowitalls that really have NFI about the things they are talking about..
My advice has now dried up except to those that are willing to head it.. like I might add the OP of this thread.

HI Bob

Only 30years ?? What the "old" BOB for? smile biggrin

Try 5years Apprentice PLUS 44years active & now still keeping in touch via son who is a licensed electrical contracter biggrin

Baz421 · Guru

Well lots of interesting posts here if I say so myself.

So I may as well add my 2c worth.

MANY POSTS claiming to have read Aust Standards or knowledge thereoff could be way off the mark because:

summaries supplied free are useless, they are designed so that you buy the correct standard
many standards are advisory or so called "best practice" at the time of drafting (although this is changing)
to be enforcable by law and AS must be called up in legislation making it mandatory
AS ie 1234 should ALWAYS BE QUOTED WITH the year in full ie AS1234-1990 so that it is clear what version is quoted

MANY POSTS have not fully taken into account all of the information in the Victorian document touted as being current by used it selectively (this is a common problem when interpreting and enforcing legislation, technical bulletins etc) ie there is section there that says pigtails must be "protected" from possible damage.

Am I qualified to make these comments?

Years drafting legislation, Technical and information bulletins with Motor Vehicle registration Authority, inspecting/arbitrating (if a problem) gas fittings in road registered vehicles after having completed the relevant technical qual. So I checked the installers.

A major weakness of this post is that of selective quoting to achieve a certain point of view.

Not denigrating anyone ie I'm not playing the man/woman,,, just the quality and accuracy AND COMPLETNESS OF THE INFORMATION.

End of my burst, Cheers Baz

-- Edited by Baz421 on Saturday 15th of February 2014 09:38:42 PM

oldtrack123 · Guru

Hi

On the question of Flexible hoses

This later version of the document may be of interest

http://www.esv.vic.gov.au/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=WKDuDk6Ozpw%3D&tabid=341&mid=1541

Note that the use of flexible hose, as a line after the regulato,r is a ONE APPROVED hose feeding to a SINGLE appliance inlet

Also the table materials/methods

PeterQ

oldtrack123 · Guru

Hi double post

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 15th of February 2014 09:46:50 PM

brian · Guru

oldtrack123 wrote:
Hi
On the question of Flexible hoses
This later version of the document may be of interest
http://www.esv.vic.gov.au/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=WKDuDk6Ozpw%3D&tabid=341&mid=1541
Note that the use of flexible hose, as a line after the regulato,r is a ONE APPROVED hose feeding to a SINGLE appliance inlet
Also the table materials/methods

PeterQ

Hmmm... Exactly the same link that was supplied much earlier.

It is dated 2004 so what makes you sure that it is the latest version?

oldtrack123 · Guru

HI Baz
Yes you are correct in sayingthat Standards are not law until ratifiedby STATE govs

You would be more correct if you had said SOME Standards are only advisory

The new/updated gas &electrical Standards are usually automatically made law uner clauses in the STATE ELECTRICAL ACTS

Yes ,the year should always be for clarity
In MY post above Standards is As/NZS 5601:2010[ A new revision is due]

Am I qualified to say the above ? YES,years in implementing a wide range of Standardsthat were either mandatory under legislation
or mandatory as a part of the client' [covering manyfields notjust gas or electrical]

PeterQ

Baz421 · Guru

oldtrack123 wrote:

HI Baz
Yes you are correct in sayingthat Standards are not law until ratifiedby STATE govs and Federal Govt ie Heavy Vehicle lagislation

You would be more correct if you had said SOME Standards are only advisory if it's advisory and NOT called up in legislation,, it IS NOT enforceable

The new/updated gas &electrical Standards are usually automatically made law uner clauses in the STATE ELECTRICAL ACTS agree many Regs etc say as amended from time to time,, as new draft standards are circulated for comment and to allow Govt's to flag amendments to legislation or simply change legislation if required.

Yes ,the year should always be for clarity
In MY post above Standards is As/NZS 5601:2010[ A new revision is due]

Am I qualified to say the above ? YES,years in implementing a wide range of Standardsthat were either mandatory under legislation
or mandatory as a part of the client' [covering manyfields notjust gas or electrical]

PeterQ

Delta18 · Guru

Sheesh, now I find I need to get a licensed plumber to change my gas bottle every 2 or 3 weeks as I cannot touch high pressure gas lines without a license.

Shoulda got a compressor fridge and all electric stove. cry

Who knew?

oldtrack123 · Guru

Hi Brian
A boo boo on my part I simpl ylooked atthe dte ofthe link being put up, that was 2010
Butaftervreading vthefine print in the actual document isthe2004version
Now how to get a copy of the LATEST version

PeterQ