ROAD TRAIN VERSUS 4WD IN THE NT

Baz421 · Guru

ROAD TRAIN VERSUS 4WD IN THE NT

NeilandRaine · Guru

Looks like someone didn't have a CB or didn't understand call points

Baz421 · Guru

NeilandRaine wrote:
Looks like someone didn't have a CB or didn't understand call points

No call points here,,,,, common sense is the answer.

hako · Guru

Pardon my ignorance but the story depicted is not complete. Who was in the wrong? Is it a single lane bridge? What are call points?
Regards.

Baz421 · Guru

hako wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but the story depicted is not complete. Who was in the wrong? Is it a single lane bridge? What are call points?
Regards.

Call points are used at set locations (usually signed) where trucks tell each other if they are approaching a point of danger ie narrow bridge, steep hill, extremely tight corner for say B Double/Road Train. It lets others reply that they may be close and offer to give way, or vice versa.

Informal call points are used by locals in many places that only they know,,, helps avoid accidents. If you read their transmission you NORMALLY know they are close and pay attention.

Rule of the bush,,, little gives way to big,,,,,,, big gives way to bigger etc etc. Normally loaded/heavy/wide loads get right of way even amongst truckies.

Road trains can't stop quickly so you are expected in this scenario not to enter the bridge/causway until you make sure you can get through. Same principle as in cities,,, don't enter an intersection unless you can cross it safely.

Hope this helps.

-- Edited by Baz421 on Saturday 11th of January 2014 10:28:36 PM

D and D · Guru

Bit hard to give way to something bigger if you're already on the bridge when the something bigger enters the bridge from the other direction and maneuvering room is non-existent. As Hako said, the pics don't tell the full story.

2foot6 · Senior Member

I read the story a few weeks ago,apparently the 4wd was on the bridge and the truck came over the hill and they met.Using the CB would have possibly avoided the situation.No major injuries I believe,just pride. Perhaps if the bridge was wider there wouldn't be a problem biggrin biggrin

Radar · Guru

hi All

This is old news, cb would not of helped and what would of helped was if people were driving to the conditions, full stop.

KFT · Guru

Yes radar cb would have helped because these blokes are running these areas all the time and in my experience always call before they get to a one lane bridge or causeway. If you listen to your cb you will hear them approaching and know to stop and wait.

then the scenario like is in the pictures would not possibly have happened.

frank

Mousey · Senior Member

cb should be on out in the bush for all sorts of reasons

Radar · Guru

KFT wrote:
Yes radar cb would have helped because these blokes are running these areas all the time and in my experience always call before they get to a one lane bridge or causeway. If you listen to your cb you will hear them approaching and know to stop and wait.

then the scenario like is in the pictures would not possibly have happened.

frank

Ktf hi

Yes i must agree with you if both parties had had radios and called fast large truck approaching skinny bridge this would not of happen, maybe.

Now you must still drive to the conditions of the road whether you have a radio or not , looking at the truck and side tippers road train used primarily in road construction running the same roads mostly, with his experience of the road and the skid marks says it all, in to big a hurry working under paid, with no regards for the travelling public.

There possibly would of been a sign reading narrow single lane bridge because trucks are a big will not automatically give you right away. Radios are not Gods gift to road uses and that is coming from someone who switches his off and switches it back on when he has need to uses it and that is when I was running the roads with 19 meter long and 3. 4 wide loads with out the need of escort pilots for the last 8 years before my retirement, very rarely have radio on in the car or when towing the caravan if things start to look a bit how you do I switch it on to advise the transport that I will slow up to allow him to go around but mostly when the jobs done it is turned down for next time. Cheers

-- Edited by Radar on Sunday 12th of January 2014 11:27:19 AM

Gerty Dancer · Guru

On a developmental road, our first time listening to the truckies advising "Northbound @ XYZ Creek" we said "So where is that?" Quick look at the map, couldn't find it. So we called up to let him know we were southbound somewhere close enough to have heard him, and started looking for a place to get off the road. It worked, we passed quite a few road trains, terrifyingly huge and fast, but soooo much better to get right out of their way, and they always thanked us.

Delta18 · Guru

Radar wrote:
Radios are not Gods gift to road uses and that is coming from someone who switches his off and switches it back on when he has need to uses it and that is when I was running the roads with 19 meter long and 3. 4 wide loads with out the need of escort pilots for the last 8 years before my retirement, Cheers

-- Edited by Radar on Sunday 12th of January 2014 11:27:19 AM

That would be the most irresponsible statement I have heard a 'truckie' admit to. You would be the only truck "driver" in the country not to have a uhf/cb turned on whilst driving I reckon.

With 3.4m width, how the hell would you know what was coming up behind trying to contact for an overtake manoevre?

I guess this statement was a bait for a bite. You got me.

Ontos45 · Guru

I can remember when narrow bridges here in Qld. had Stop and Give Way signs on all Northern approaches. The downside, or Southern approaches had right of way.

hako · Guru

Ontos45 wrote:
The downside, or Southern approaches had right of way.

I thought that was standard practice too, however my son who works for Main Roads tells me it's all to do with which direction has the best view of approaching traffic.

Onedodger · Guru

And the unofficial NT road rules is " Might Is Right."

Now I duck.

Bunkerbob · Senior Member

Radar, I for one are pleased that you are a retired truck driver as with your attitude of turning your CB on when you need it has me shaking my head in disbelief. You are not the only road user and indeed at the beginning of last century radios weren't needed. But technology has grown and they are now important. For most. Most but not all. And especially not you cause you have radar.

Bob Full time on the road, Still driving trucks, Semis, b-doubles, Pockets, C-trains, whatever.

Radar · Guru

Delta 18 hi

It,s quite easy, the only time you have trouble seeing rear approaching traffic is when it gets right behind you and most times it,s not problem, one works it out after awhile.

Travelling at or near the legal speed limit for over size load of 90 ks an hour on the open road is not a real problem and thank fully I don't need to do it anymore.

Most of my friends one or two still drive you need to send them email to get there attention on the road. Not all companies have CB radios in there trucks, generally the ones that are paying the award or better and there is not a lot of them fit radios as it's another thing to be maintain, just like driving lights. I started driving we were lucky to get 2 out side rear view mirrors and there still not compulsive. That should get a bite, before you jump on the bandwagon have a good read of the rules and regulations. It reads if you have it it must be maintained in a usable condition.

How many times you have been wandering down the road come up to a caravan with 18/40 CB on the back and you give a call, interesting but then I don't blame them for having off with the language and argo that comes with it.

Baz421 · Guru

Bunkerbob wrote:
Radar, I for one are pleased that you are a retired truck driver as with your attitude of turning your CB on when you need it has me shaking my head in disbelief. You are not the only road user and indeed at the beginning of last century radios weren't needed. But technology has grown and they are now important. For most. Most but not all. And especially not you cause you have radar.

Bob Full time on the road, Still driving trucks, Semis, b-doubles, Pockets, C-trains, whatever.

Agree Bob,,, I didn't believe it when I read it, I had to read it several times as I thought it was a typo, but no his mates are the same!!!

I was a bit angry at first so didn't respond straight away as I would have let go "both smokin barrels". Lol,,, if it wasn't so serious a subject and from a so called "professional" in the industry????

They are out there!!!! But the scary thing is we are too.

Kooroorinya Kelpie · Senior Member

Gee Radar what make and model was the steam traction engine you drove??

johnq · Guru

Does anyone know the distance it takes for a road train to come to a stop from 100kph, including the driver's reaction time?

If a road train traveling at 100kph enters a bridge of say 100 metres length could it stop before traveling the full length of the bridge? Or might it take something half the length of the bridge again to accomplish it? Say a total distance of 150 metres?

If that is so, what clear sight does the driver of a road train require to approach a bridge if he is traveling at 100kph to give him adequate time to react and apply the brakes before entering the bridge if there is another vehicle on the bridge, or imminently entering the bridge?

Just thinking about the laws of physics.

A short video on stopping cars,

http://www.sdt.com.au/safedrive-directory-STOPPINGDISTANCE.htm

-- Edited by johnq on Sunday 12th of January 2014 06:56:36 PM

-- Edited by johnq on Sunday 12th of January 2014 07:01:44 PM

Radar · Guru

Johnq hi.

That will settle the debate road trains are dangerous to the travelling public. Stopping distant for road train, a real long way.

Do we need to share our roads with these slow stopping giants.

Perhaps the operators need to be more qualified with a higher degree of education. It's a no brainer when you see a sign warning you of a narrow bridge to back off and approach the bridge with caution at a reduce rate.

It could of been a real drama had the tourist been closer to the end of the bridge.

johnq · Guru

What is apparent is that both parties, north and south if you will, should be obliged to adjust their approach speed (as responsible drivers would already be doing) to ensure they can stop before and clear of the bridge if a vehicle is already on the bridge from the other end, or is about to enter the bridge. Where only one party does that, there will be a collision on the bridge (think about it). Of course where neither takes the necessary action to slow in expectation of the bridge, a serious accident on the bridge is certain.

Perhaps one risk treatment could be to have a speed zone at either end, for (say) a couple of hundred metres of 70kph (just guessing a reasonable limit to reduce the problem), and put solar/battery speed cameras in to assist compliance. The cameras could help pay for new bridges. biggrin

It is a pity that for various reasons rail transport just doesn't work well. Some creative thinking needed.

native pepper · Senior Member

johnq wrote:
Does anyone know the distance it takes for a road train to come to a stop from 100kph, including the driver's reaction time?

If a road train traveling at 100kph enters a bridge of say 100 metres length could it stop before traveling the full length of the bridge? Or might it take something half the length of the bridge again to accomplish it? Say a total distance of 150 metres?
If that is so, what clear sight does the driver of a road train require to approach a bridge if he is traveling at 100kph to give him adequate time to react and apply the brakes before entering the bridge if there is another vehicle on the bridge, or imminently entering the bridge?
Just thinking about the laws of physics.

A short video on stopping cars,

http://www.sdt.com.au/safedrive-directory-STOPPINGDISTANCE.htm

-- Edited by johnq on Sunday 12th of January 2014 06:56:36 PM

-- Edited by johnq on Sunday 12th of January 2014 07:01:44 PM

It depends on length, weight and road conditions as to how long it takes to pull up a road train. Three trailers and a dog on the back, unloaded at 100kph, probably 300m, loaded a 1klm at least.

People need to realise when you venture out of urban land, of the main highways and into the bush, you are entering a foreign environment, where what you expect from other drivers is vastly different.

There's a big difference in driving a road train and pulling a flimsy caravan along the road, 135 tonnes plus, is a different kettle of fish compared to 3-5 tonne. CB radio is very important if you are on a road train route and many of them have signs stating you will run across some very big rigs on the road.

Looks like the truck was well on the bridge and during my life driving road trains, it was not unusual for some car driver to try to bluff you, thinking you can stop like they can and suddenly realising there's no way the truck is going to get out of their way.

Those claiming road trains shouldn't be on the road, are living in disney land and probably have no idea how life revolves around road trains in the bush. Without them, people would starve and city dwellers would miss out on lots of food and other commodities.

Looks like the truck was braking heavily and well on the bridge when they collided, no such braking marks behind the car. Looks like a game of chicken the car was bound to lose.

keiron · Senior Member

Do they not have any East / West bridges in Qld?? KB

Delta18 · Guru

The car was towing a camper trailer which was jack-knifed to 90° to the car suggesting that maybe the car driver realised the impending crash and tried to reverse off the bridge.

Who is at fault? Only those two drivers know. All one way bridges have speed reductions and warnings on approach. Both the truck and the car drivers have a responsibility to drive at a speed such that if another vehicle is already on the bridge then they STOP! No brain surgery there.

There was another incident in the Kimberly a few months ago where 2 roadtrains had a head-on on a similar one way bridge. No good here saying "biggest has right of way", they were both big and should have been aware of the situation and proceeded with care.

Cheers Neil

-- Edited by Delta18 on Monday 13th of January 2014 01:34:16 PM

-- Edited by Delta18 on Monday 13th of January 2014 01:36:40 PM

johnq · Guru

Just to reiterate, my posts were not to argue a case either way, and I am sure that all here would be responsible and cautious.

The physics are interesting. The sole remedy is for all drivers to reduce speed before entering the approach zone where they are required to spot a hazard, react and brake before committing to the bridge.

But even then, where a road warrior (car, car+trailer, or truck) is not prepared to reduce his/her approach speed at the other end, the responsible and cautious are still at risk, despite their better judgement.

native pepper · Senior Member

The physics are very interesting, when you consider the dynamics involved in the rig set up, load, road condition resistance and what is involved in keeping a multi wheeled heavy vehicle mobile. It's not the same conditions as most people are used to. In reality, you keep you CB loudly tunes to the channel used on the route you are going on and if possible, find out what and when heavy vehicles are on the road. You can do that through local tourist, pub, police and local government. Not hard to do and worthwhile if you want to survive on road train routes and there are many.

KFT · Guru

I would much rather accept my right of way than try to take it and suffer the consequences.

whilst towing my caravan I am on holiday and it really does not matter what time I arrive at wherever I going so I am quite happy to sit and wait for a heavy vehicle to pass before I proceed.

much much safer for me that way.

frank

-- Edited by KFT on Monday 13th of January 2014 05:25:01 PM

Radar · Guru

Hi All

Some very good responses coming though now.

Just because you call north bound skinny bridge on the CB don't mean the bridge is green and not to reduce your road speed. To me that would be more of warning to slow down even slower just in case there is a vehicle that missed the call.

It was warning to opposite coming driver to back off to so he didn't need stop all together which resulting in him stopping making it sometimes harder to restart from scratch.

There is one road up in Qld out of Bris. to Toowoomba brain dead drivers approach this area asking is it clear referring to is there no "speed camera" parked there in the 80 kph zone at a cross road with 5/600 plus horse power 18 gears and want to drive though there at 100 ks just so they don't loose any road speed, it scary to watch.

It seems we have some very good intelligent road train drivers on this forum. All the best in your days work.