Until they finally close down here in Oz, I would be reluctant to buy a Holden now made in Oz, how could the workers have their hearts in putting out a quality product, also they may deliberately do a shonky job as pay back for what has happened to them.

And the parts supply chain will not be as good I would imagine having to come from overseas when it closes down.

Out of principle for the shafting of the Ozzie workers and suppliers I would not buy one in future if at all.

My father bought a new "Holden", aka Daewoo, only a few months ago. Unfortunately he's become too ill to drive it, so the latest news is a double whammy. He and Mum still have their old Toyota, though.

BTW, globalisation is not responsible for the "liberalisation" of the public service in NSW and QLD. That's home grown politics, not market forces. That said, I'm not shedding a tear for our lazy, bloated bureaucracies.

ISTM that eventually we'll have no manufacturing in this country. We'll just be digging holes in the ground, sending the minerals and ore to China, importing the manufactured goods, and then digging more holes in the ground to bury the cr*p.

Gday...

I agree with the sentiment expressed regarding Straya's dismal future regarding  manufacturing industry.

However, if we are completely honest, how many of the members of this forum, as an example, actually own and drive a vehicle manufactured in Straya.

Despite all the other valid reasons for Holden, and Ford and probably Toyota, ceasing manufacture here, the production volume needed to 'break even' at least, whether domestic consumption or export, is just not there.

It's a bit like people complaining when their country rail service is ceased due to lack of patronage. If they had used it instead of using their cars the service would have remained.

Cheers - John

Vic41 wrote:

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Until they finally close down here in Oz, I would be reluctant to buy a Holden now made in Oz, how could the workers have their hearts in putting out a quality product, also they may deliberately do a shonky job as pay back for what has happened to them.

And the parts supply chain will not be as good I would imagine having to come from overseas when it closes down.

Out of principle for the shafting of the Ozzie workers and suppliers I would not buy one in future if at all.

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 I agree with you Vic. Same thing happened to Leyland. Employee frustration lead to industrial sabotage and an even earlier demise.

I too blame the government, not only Abbott but the previous few as well, the rot started very long ago and throwing money at a failing business is only a short term fix because we'll be throwing bigger and bigger money as the years go on, plus others business will climb on the bandwagon instead of finding alternative ways to become competitive and entice customers. The market should have some form of protection against cheap imports, even if locally build products are more expensive. The move by the new govt to have armoured BMW instead of locally built products is part of the apathy and finally the major blame is US, the buying public, for not supporting local manufacturers. My wife drives Holden, I'm guilty, I drive a Jeep and at the time of purchase I was thinking of my back pocket and not what would help my fellow Australians.

During the past year, Kathy and have gone to lengths to ensure our daily shopping support firstly WA suppliers then Australian suppliers, we even shop at IGA instead of Coles and Woolworths. We may be shooting ourselves in the foot because we are very much in the minority but our conscience sleeps better.

The above is my personal point of view and is put forward as part of the discussion, not to credit or discredit the opinion of others.

leevin wrote:

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Holden were demanding that the Australian government give them a handout. Where is the handout from their big-time US of A government?
The Australian government called their bluff, and told them that we will not be dictated to by the unions.
This is part of the massive money wasting of the previous autocratic/dictatorial/union-centric Australian government, you know, the government that we finally kicked out.
Australia is buggered, we can't compete with the wages paid overseas. We (unions), just keep demanding more.
And when the younger generation gets such fantastic wages, they spend more, then want more and go deeper into debt.
It is sad but the banks throw money at them, and when it hits the fan, only the banks can win.
Sorry, my rant for the year (2014 I think), but I am as cranky as you.
Have a great Christmas & a safe New Year.

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 I'm with you, Holden has lost the market a long time back and became a outreach assemble plant  nothing was manufactured soley from Aust resources  and when someone who puts screws onto an air driver can claim to be a skilled worker on $70 grand a year bets me.  The skill factor ends at the design stage  and that's where we need to be at the sharp end otherwise we may as well  join the spiral into third world .  Think of all the industries we have lost and no bail out was on hand, so why now

This is an email doing the rounds at present, not sure if there is any truth in it or maybe a red herring to justify GMH's actions, no author was shown, so for what it's worth here it is;

ONLY $150 million a year will save Holden? Rubbish. The Holden Enterprise Agreement is the document that has utterly sunk Holden's prospects. It defies belief that someone in the company isn't being held to account for it.

Holden's management masks a union culture beyond most people's comprehension. Employment costs spiralled way beyond community standards long ago. Neither "pay freezes" nor more money will save Holden, but getting the Fair Work Commission to dissolve the agreement and put all workers on the award wage might be a start.

In 1991, the pre-enterprise bargaining award wage of a Holden entry level process worker was $462.80 a week. In 1992, Holden began enterprise bargaining and now a worker at that same classification level has a base rate of $1194.50 a week, a 158 per cent increase, or a compound increase of 4.4 per cent year on year for 22 years. Right now, base wage rates for process workers in the Holden enterprise agreement are in the $60,000 to $80,000 per year range and in recent times, "hardship payments" of $3750 were given to each worker.

The modern award for such workers mandates base rates in the $37,000 to $42,000 range. This means that before we add any of the shift penalties, loadings, 26 allowances and the added cost of productivity restrictions, Holden begins each working day paying its workforce almost double what it should. After you add in the other employment costs, I estimate Holden's workforce costs it somewhere close to triple the amount it should.

Many people who work at Holden don't actually work for Holden; they work for the union. Occupational health and safety people are given 10 days' paid time off a year to be trained by the union. Most companies do not allow unions to train their OH&S people because the knowledge is used to control the workplace to the benefit of the union.

Union delegates are also allowed up to 10 paid days a year for union training in how to be effective union delegates and two of these delegates are entitled to an extra Holden sponsorship of one paid month off to "further their industrial and/or leadership development".

Holden's rules on hiring casuals are shocking and unheard of in today's market. The agreement forbids Holden from hiring casuals except when a "short-term increase in workload, or other unusual circumstances occurs". If this situation arises Holden has to "consult and reach agreement" with the union. Further, "Engagement of the agreed number of casual personnel will be for the agreed specified tasks and the agreed specified periods." If any of this changes, Holden must get union agreement again. After three months of continuous full-time work a casual must be made permanent. It is impossible to run a business like this.

An ex-employee from Adelaide, on condition of anonymity, consented to an interview yesterday. He described the workforce as "over-managed", with one team leader for every six workers on the production line, when one for every 25 workers would suffice.

He said "some of us workers felt it wasn't necessary to get paid what we were getting paid to do the jobs we were doing", adding that their work is probably worth about "20 bucks an hour". A few years back, mates took redundancy packages in the order of "$280k plus". Workers are "like sheep" that blindly follow the union leadership. At induction, new workers are ushered into one-on-one meetings with the union rep who heavies them into joining. "It is made clear that if you don't join the union you will be sacked," he said. Union representatives "don't actually do any work for Holden", but rather make themselves full-time enforcers of union control.

He says workers are drug tested before hiring, but "only have to stay off it for a few weeks, get in the door and then you'll be right". Workers caught taking drugs or being drug-affected at work are allegedly put on a fully paid rehabilitation program, with special paid time off of about four weeks duration, before being let back into the workforce.

Australian workplaces have a zero tolerance for drug use, with instant dismissal the remedy, but at Holden "the union won't let the company sack" any workers caught dealing, taking or being on drugs. "If they did a random drug test tomorrow they'd probably have to sack 40 per cent of the workforce," he adds.

If the Holden scenario were playing out in a privately owned business, proper cost-cutting strategies would be used. If you have the will and can hire the skill, there are many ways to cut labour costs. The workers can be given a couple of years notice of significant wage drops and can receive lump sum payouts of entitlements to help bring down family debt.

Of course, these strategies are only ever used by business people who have no one else to bail them out. It seems Holden would rather leave the country than dissolve its enterprise agreement. The union thinks members are better off jobless than on award wages. Holden's fate seems sealed.

If Holden does leave, workers will receive the most generous redundancy benefits around. Holden says leaving will cost $600m. Most of this will go to staff payouts. The fellow interviewed agrees with my calculation: the average production-line worker will walk away with a redundancy package of between $300k-500k.

GaryKelly wrote:

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The unions didn't do the former British motor industry too many favors either.

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Good job you used the past tense Gary.

The unions certainly had a place after the industrial revolution however by the 1970's they had well and truly reached their use by date.

leevin wrote:

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Holden were demanding that the Australian government give them a handout. Where is the handout from their big-time US of A government?
The Australian government called their bluff, and told them that we will not be dictated to by the unions.
This is part of the massive money wasting of the previous autocratic/dictatorial/union-centric Australian government, you know, the government that we finally kicked out.
Australia is buggered, we can't compete with the wages paid overseas. We (unions), just keep demanding more.
And when the younger generation gets such fantastic wages, they spend more, then want more and go deeper into debt.
It is sad but the banks throw money at them, and when it hits the fan, only the banks can win.
Sorry, my rant for the year (2014 I think), but I am as cranky as you.
Have a great Christmas & a safe New Year.

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Right on the money, also Gary's too.

Don't feel too bad for the Holden workers as most will walk away debt free with their redundancy payouts. I have been in three jobs that closed their doors and in only one did I get a months notice and a redundancy. Think of the other manufacturing industries that have folded over the last several years, I bet their redundancy packages were very poor comparatively but did they get any Govt help to retrain? NO, so why should Holden workers be any different. I don't remember all this sympathy and money for the Ford workers, or any of the others, oh that's right the union (Labor) was the govt eh!