Experts advice Please re Diesel injectors

PeterInSa · Guru

Experts advice Please re Diesel injectors

spida · Guru

Nissan navara 2006 D40 (not a common rail)- had serviced last week, 120,000km. All good but garage suggested I get the injectors serviced as they are getting noisy. Can be heard when cold, goes as engine warms up.

Local garage - take them out, send to be serviced, cost $200 each plus labour - Maybe $1200

Rang Allied diesel - as experts in injectors. They will test and replace any faulty ones at $400 each. If all 4 need replacing looking at $2500 - $3000 with new gasket etc! Apparently you dont 'service' them! Also need ute left overnight so they can hear the noise when vehicle cold in morning - ........ didnt ask if they had a courtesy vehicle for me to get back to van in!

Rang Nissan! They can test for $90, treat with cleaner $245, but if any need replacing then $800 each for genuine Nissan, all 4 = $3500-$4000!!!!

So - now totally confused as to what the local garage was talking about - servicing? What does one do to injectors?

From past experience I know that who ever works on fuel in this vehicle needs to know how to reset the computer - get the 'go slows' otherwise.

Any comments from those with first hand knowledge will be most welcome

Duh · Guru

This mob were recommended to me by Ultra Tune if I had any troubles Spida, in Great Eastern Highway, Redcliffe, near the airport;

United Fuel Injection

http://www.unitedfuel.com.au/contact-us

I never had a diesel before and rang them for advice, they also told me that while they do not give Seniors Discount per se, they would reduce the amount charged for seniors/pensioners.

I found them very nice to talk to, they were busy when I rang and they took my details and the boss rang me back later and was very helpful. They also told me that the after market parts they use are exactly the same product as used by the dealers but they get them at a much better price from the same distributors through their own channels.

See also some comments on below link;

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-patrol-gq-y60-ford-maverick-11/diesel-specialists-perth-40213/

Question for blaze which may help us both. I was over at Supercheap looking at fuel and injector cleaner (fuel additive).

One of the staff there told me he had worked for BP and although you pay a bit more for their diesel it has some of these additives already included and could save you buying them. I have heard that you should only buy diesel from the major fuel companies as it is better quality etc. Do you know if there is any truth in these comments please?

-- Edited by Duh on Wednesday 28th of August 2013 06:23:30 PM

spida · Guru

fuel usage went up and black smoke - but that has gone since the service and new fuel filter. Hasnt stopped the knocking noise when cold from injectors though. Bought the ute at 70,000km - ex pilbara fleet vehicle so who knows what it has been through from new :)

bill12 · Guru

Injectors are mechanical, and do wear out, I'mafraid. Try putting some good injector cleaner thru them in your next couple of tanks of fuel. It really makes a difference.To test and/or replace them takes specialized equipment , and should not be undertaken by anybody who is not trained in high pressure fuel delivery.I hate to say it but shop around, and you have to pay the piper.Diesels are great when going, but more expensive to fix. Bill

spida · Guru

thanks Bill. I was concerned about the local garage doing the job after talking to the injector people.

blaze · Guru

The local garage wouldn't have done the service/testing of injectors, they would outsource the work to a specialist. The normal procedure is to test spray pattern and crack off pressure. If the spray pattern is bad or the injector dribbles after injecting fuel the nozzles will be replaced which includes a valve and seat that does wear and are only able to be replaced as a unit. I have at times recut/reseat the valve and seat but time consuming and wouldn't be econimcally viable today. If the valve and seat are ok and the crack off pressure is down that can be corrected by adjusting spring pressure. If its just a diesel knock when cold its got another million km left. I think you most likely had a partially blocked air cleaner causing the black smoke and excess fuel. Your noise maybe your tappets but without hearing it I can not diagnose.
cheers
blaze

spida · Guru

Thank you Blaze - just what I needed. Will go to nissan anyway and get the diagnostic just for peace of mind.
Thank you also Duh.

beiffe · Guru

My bus was blowing large amounts of black smoke and also getting hot after I bought her but I found that the air filter was nearly completely block. Changed the filter and it removed most of it and the heat problem went away.
I still have a bit of black smoke if I am working the bus hard. eg under hard acceleration or pulling hard up a steep hill or when braking hard with the exhaust brake.
I have been told that this is caused by the pump rack being slightly out of tune but will do no harm just use more fuel.
I suggest you look at your air filter and replace if it is dirty and start again and if you have not already replaced it yourself then do it anyway.
Other suggestions are good. I would always use a large reputable person before a back yard or small town mechanic for these types of problems. Most quotes I have had to fix the rack problem was about $5 - $7K as they say they must do a full rebuild of the pump and also do the injectors at the same time.
Regards
Brian

Jaybird · Veteran Member

Have a look at the Navara Forums on this site

http://www.navara.asia/

They are a great bunch of helpfull blokes. I have the ZD30 D22 diesel this model rattles its head of when cold and has done so since new 140,000 now, maybe your is the same. They will tell you if that is normal or at least give you some suggestions if you ask.

spida · Guru

Thank you everyone - much appreciated. I understand more stuff now.

PeterD · Guru

spida wrote:
Nissan navara 2006 D40 (not a common rail)- had serviced last week, 120,000km.

Well that's interesting. How come your engine is different to the others. My Navara has a common rail motor.

spida · Guru

No idea - Allied diesel said it was, Nissan said it was not that year......... dont have the hand book. Boy - this old girl sure could do with less confusion confuse disbelief doh evileye confuse

cultana · Senior Member

Sorry but somewhat stumped by noisy injectors that quiten down when warm. Sonds more like tappets. Also as suggested injector cleaner with each fuel fillup.

120,000km sounds a bit low for injectors to go, irrespective of past life.

If you vehicle is electric the resting the computer is a simple case of disconect all batteries for about 20 mins. The onboard computer rests back to factory settings.
Do that after each service with my Patrol. Runs better for some odd reason.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

I throw myself on the mercy of others on here who would know more than me ... but I would interpret the notation "'noisy injectors may need servicing" as "advice" that some time in the future the injectors may need servicing" [which in itself is not prophetic, just normal - injectors will always need servicing sometime in the future ] ... and as others have already stated 120,000km seems a bit "young" for injectors to need "servicing" ... I'd file it away as advice and wait until the next service.

Regarding "noisy injectors" ... in my limited experience, I doubt injectors would be 'noisy'. Have you noticed a 'louder than normal' "diesel rattle" when you start it up ... particularly on a cold morning? If not, then I would dismiss the "noisy injector" advice ... again as others have said - more likely to be tappets.

Bottom line for me ... file it under "useful advice", if there is no black smoke when you give it a footfull (let it idle for a while, get someone to watch exhaust pipe, give it a footfull of throttle. No black smoke - get on with life). Or get someone to follow you on the road, without changing down just give it a fair bit of throttle, as if ya gonna pass someone, and if it blows black smoke it MAY need some attention ... no black smoke during normal driving - relax. It is not unusual for a non -turbo 'earlier' diesel to blow black smoke as there is no turbo to force the air into the fuel to make sure it all burns ... therefore excess fuel under load (even if injectors are OK) will always appear as unburnt at the exhaust pipe - ie black smoke.

Regarding the "noise" - listen when you start the motor on a cold/cool morning, if it seems noisy, keep an "ear" on it until next service. I am assuming you will be having a service in the next 5,000 to 10,000 km?

All the above assumes these blokes who did the "service" and provided the prophetic advice renewed the air filter, as a dirty filter will affect the black smoke situation - not enuff air with the fuel therefore excess fuel is blown out the back as black smoke.

Cheers - John

-- Edited by rockylizard on Sunday 1st of September 2013 03:17:38 PM

spida · Guru

maybe my 'take' on the thing - dont know what noisy injectors sound like - others have suggested it is tappets making the noise. Just going on a note on the invoice from the garage saying 'noisy injectors may need servicing' so I am probably confusing all sorts of things - as one does from time to time - but then I get to learn all sorts of stuff from the responses also.

spida · Guru

Thank you John. I do get in a bit of a tizz when I get landed with things I know nothing about - great learning experience though! Will do the $90 diagnostic at Nissan and see what that says.

Baz421 · Guru

I'm just pondering this question and wondering -

if the noise of "injector rattle when cold" is indeed a "rattle",,, then it is possibly "piston slap" when the piston is hitting the cylinder wall at start up.

As the alloy piston expands with heat inside the cast iron block/steel sleeve bore, the noise lessens considerably.

If you have a rattle on start up,, increase revs to say 1200-1500,,, is it still there????? Chances are it will disappear and indicate no problems.

Just a thought!!!!

Mark · Senior Member

Just P1553d myself laughing Baz421,

Not at your suggestion of a possible problem with piston slap, although I think it is unlikely, my ZD30 rattled like a B45t4rd on start up but never used a drop of oil and when warmed up sang like a bird, no, after 17 posts, the last one being a decision to get a $90 diagnostic check and then you have suggested what else it could be after SPIDA wrote;

"I do get in a bit of a tizz when I get landed with things I know nothing about"

I can picture the whisky bottle out now!!

LMAO

Mark

Baz421 · Guru

Mark wrote:
Just P1553d myself laughing Baz421,
Not at your suggestion of a possible problem with piston slap, although I think it is unlikely, my ZD30 rattled like a B45t4rd on start up but never used a drop of oil and when warmed up sang like a bird, no, after 17 posts, the last one being a decision to get a $90 diagnostic check and then you have suggested what else it could be after SPIDA wrote;
"I do get in a bit of a tizz when I get landed with things I know nothing about"
I can picture the whisky bottle out now!!
LMAO
Mark

Yeh wellllllllllllll,,, it seems injector knock, rattle, noise is on everyones lips,,, so whisky would be a good tonic,,,,, or even whisky and tonic,,lol.

Maybe people want a whisper quiet diesel, personally I like to hear mine,,,,, and the sound of the turbo is music to my ears.

So in short we could have whisky and tonic and music for everyone,, lol.

I'll be castigated for this on this forum section,, should be I digress,,, ahhhhhhhhhhhh.

spida · Guru

Love it - thank you all for puting a smile on my dial!

spida · Guru

update - had 'on-board injector clean and flush rail and engine with solvent cannister' at Nissan dealer smile Engine running so much quieter now!!!! Yeeha! Replaced cracked drive belts also. Raring to hitch up and hit the road again!!!!

So all that panic and confusion for nothing - AGAIN!!!! biggrin biggrin biggrin

Will probably get the additive and remember to use it from now on - and have another flush after 40,000km.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Cheers - John

nallingtoon · Senior Member

Spida i m pretty sure you have a CRD engine in your Navara as most of the navaras ihave driven also triton diesels have hell of a rattle when cold but this inot a mechanical rattle the ECU (engine control unit) advances and retards the injection timing on start up depending on temprature so is putting more fuel through the injectors when cold causing whats known as diesel knock, mechanical controlled engines tend not to have this problem, i am a soon to be retired Diesel mechanic and a hate to see people like you being scammed by work shops that know nothing about diesels, there are very few injectiion shops i trust these days as if you ask they will always tell you you have buggered injectors and you cant prove otherwise, i live in brisbane and only use i injector shop i know can be trusted they always give me a full report and if i want to see the test done i can

Neil