Nyngan NSW SHOWGROUNDS CAMPING CLOSED

jetj · Guru

Nyngan NSW SHOWGROUNDS CAMPING CLOSED

Baz421 · Guru

moamajohn wrote:
As My name implies I am clearly from Moama NSW .For 12 years I have owned a holiday unit here as an investment, My occupancy rate for all those years has been less than 50 p/cent per annum and as I was on the local commitee let me tell you that all, and I mean all of NSW is suffering a massive downturn in tourism in the past 4 yrs .I don,t give a bugger what the media says ..just ask the shopkeepers .Plus .my unit has had no capital gain in the said 4yrs also. Plus for what its worth tell me any buisiness that takes the same turnover 52 wks a year ? I am not sooking ,but lots of things always look rosy on paper .otherwise why wouldn,t we all be out buying C/Parks ?

I guess you are repeating one of the key things I said in my rather long previous post,,,,yes the shopkeepers are doing it tough.

Of couse business turnover varies ie seasons, economy etc but isn't it better to spread the $ around??????

Business turnover also varies considerably due to the attitude of staff,,, we nomads pass on good and bad points about towns and businesses,,, usually without fear or favour.

Sorry your occupancy rate is down, I had a non profiting unit in Darwin for a few years as well,,,,, pi%%ed me off too.

-- Edited by Baz421 on Monday 10th of June 2013 09:33:19 PM

herbie · Guru

The show grounds at Nyngan NSW has been closed to camping,due to the two caravan parks in the town ,taking their complaints to the council.In the article it stated why should local pensioners paying rates ,be subsiding (The Most Affluent Visitors ) to stay in the town in their $250.000/$500.000 set ups were hardly classed as needing free camping/service.It also went on to say the council would be exluding it self from CMCA's nation wide scheme as a friendly town....

jetj · Guru

Not good for the other businesses when people avoid the town.

kandagal · Guru

Just crossed Nyngan off my list

neilnruth · Guru

Well that's a pity kandagal because Nyngan is a nice little town. We've enjoyed being there many times. But I do understand - the owners of one of the CPs has poured a lot of money into improving their facilities and they would like to have some people use them.

NeilandRaine · Guru

I liked Nyngen and the C/V park by the river was worth the stay, didn't even know about the showground. Wonder if the CMCA will take their dump point away.

Weedy Pigeon · Senior Member

I can fully understand the council's reasoning. In Cairns the tourism companies want us ratepayers to subsidise them when things get tough. Naturally we shouldn't have to pay for free camping for travellers PLUS pay to keep tourism bodies operational.
Rates are for roads rubbish etc. not to prop up struggling CPs, if closing free parks helps to keep rates down then so be it.
One factor sometimes missed is that Nyngan residents will also want to holiday and maybe use free parking or cheap parking in other places around the country, they will be faced with the same situation as what they have just decided for travellers coming to their town.
There's 2 sides to the story and lately rates are starting to hurt people more than ever.
Just my 2c worth.

GaryKelly · Guru

Well, there's only one side to my story. If a town is too expensive to stay in, I won't be there to spend my pension.

moamajohn · Guru

Yo Gary .Sometimes we have to be fair dinkum.That is to say,if you are freeloading on a town for 24 hrs or so ,just how much of your pension are you going to pour into that town ? 1 slab of beer ?$ 40 at the IGA ?A meal at the local club ?
Or ?and I am not saying it is you but.... do you pull up at the local tap and fill your tanks ,then find the local dump point and use the park and dunnies and then bugger off to the next site that can be bludged on ?
I only say this cause I hear this from some folks that proudly inform me of how cheap they travel around OZ ! Then at happy hour they tell you about the Boat people that exploit our system ! OH Please .Am I missing something ?

neilnruth · Guru

Welcome to the forum moamajohn. Hope you enjoy the forum as much as we do.

moamajohn · Guru

Ullo NeilnRuth Thank you for the welcome.I do enjoy a good debate .So long as we are civil it is exactly that.. a forum ...ergo..we sez our piece and move on !!

Baz421 · Guru

moamajohn wrote:
Yo Gary .Sometimes we have to be fair dinkum.That is to say,if you are freeloading on a town for 24 hrs or so ,just how much of your pension are you going to pour into that town ? 1 slab of beer ?$ 40 at the IGA ?A meal at the local club ?
Or ?and I am not saying it is you but.... do you pull up at the local tap and fill your tanks ,then find the local dump point and use the park and dunnies and then bugger off to the next site that can be bludged on ?
I only say this cause I hear this from some folks that proudly inform me of how cheap they travel around OZ ! Then at happy hour they tell you about the Boat people that exploit our system ! OH Please .Am I missing something ?

There are 2 sides to everything.

Example 20 vans per night pay $30 per night for a month in a small town = $18000 per month gross to CP owner, CP owner makes say $6000 profit per month after tax. CP owner stays in town and earns $360,000 profit over 5 years. CP owner works 7 days per week but spends $300 per week in town and buys bulk supplies (toilet paper, hand towel and cleaning products out of town to get better price). So out of the $360,000 profit over five years CP owner spends $300 per week for 5 years = $78,000 spent in town. CP owner then sells up and moves with $282,000 in his/her pocket or spent purchasing bulk products elsewhere.

20 grey nomads free camp but spend the $30 in the friendly town, fuel, bakery, IGA, a can of WD40 etc etc. So they are spending $600 per day ACROSS THE DIFFERING BUSINESSES ie $18,000 per month. Assuming 33% tax rate the businesses are profiting by $6000 per month OR the whole $360,000 over the same 5 year period.

I would suggest that most of that $360,000 would not leave the town in one hit and the benefit to the community would be spread around to BENEFIT THE COMMUNITY NOT JUST ONE OPERATOR.

Another example when in St George QLD we spent over $400 in a fantastic community in 4 days.

At Surat QLD (best lamb chops I've had for ages) we spent another $200 AND NEXT TIME THESE 2 TOWNS WILL AGAIN BENEFIT AS THEY ARE VERY FRIENDLY PLACES TO STAY.

I ask,,,, what is the better benefit to the community????

Please note the above figures are an example only so need to pick the maths to pieces (unless I've stuffed the maths calculations),,,, ta

moamajohn · Guru

As My name implies I am clearly from Moama NSW .For 12 years I have owned a holiday unit here as an investment, My occupancy rate for all those years has been less than 50 p/cent per annum and as I was on the local commitee let me tell you that all, and I mean all of NSW is suffering a massive downturn in tourism in the past 4 yrs .I don,t give a bugger what the media says ..just ask the shopkeepers .Plus .my unit has had no capital gain in the said 4yrs also. Plus for what its worth tell me any buisiness that takes the same turnover 52 wks a year ? I am not sooking ,but lots of things always look rosy on paper .otherwise why wouldn,t we all be out buying C/Parks ?

Wombat 280 · Guru

Like all stories there are a number of sides not just two. My local council spends a small fortune on promoting the area and selling this back to the ratepayers as it's good for the community.. This good for the community line is hard to swallow for a rate payer seeing his rates been spent on tourism promotions . Council rates from all properties is based on the UCV hence, all owners pay rates and the council collects same irrespective of the use or non use as the case maybe . Obviously the shops occupied or not in the CBD have a higher rating as they have a higher UCV and someone owns the property so they pay and write it off come tax time . So now we have established the council base line revenue stream tell me how buying in sporting events brings any more money into a town from the land owners, all that comes out of such deals is over booked accommodation normally owned by out of towners , further strain on local infrastructure but NOT ONE CENT more goes into Council coffers. Yes it can be argued that they provide local jobs but not one more dollar to council to defray it's tourism costs. When time are good I've never seen a CVP put on free nights accommodation for travelers but when time are a little difficult they want to compel travelers to stay in their parks at inflated prices ..

Also take into account that most of the business people complaining about Nomads also serve on local councils and there in lies a problem strangling meaningful discussion on the matter of free camping.

I don't support the theory that free campers spent a lot of money locally , most carry there own supplies and stay a few days and spend very little, certainly nothing like the figures quote here

barrie · Guru

Maybe next time the council should ask the shopkeepers what think about it when people bypass the town and shops close down ,will the CP support them ??????????

sandsmere · Guru

Nice little town , Nyngan .

However , we wont be staying there anymore . There has been a lot of publicity about

this council decision , and judging from a couple of other forums , a hell of a lot of other

travellers wont be staying there either .

We will stop there to leave our **** in the dump point . Being a CMCA member , I helped pay for that . smile

-- Edited by sandsmere on Tuesday 11th of June 2013 07:14:28 AM

Golddetectornomad · Senior Member

Moamajohn....asked are you missing something?....yes mate...might I suggest a good holiday....a Car and Caravan...an open road and an open mind...what a great combination I find...my toleration of others also improves markedly, the further I go......live and let live.....and an independent free park for a few days is sheer bliss.....Hoo Roo

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Many know me and may remember my lifestyle is usually "free camp" (hate those two words together). However, a bit of my recent history.

Gin Gin QLD - showgrounds. stayed 9 days. About 7 to 10 vans each night. Local van park less than half full.

Eidsvold QLD - van park. stayed 12 days. Except for one of those nights, I was the only van there. At the "free" camp just out of town each afternoon there were between 4 and 7 vans.

Biloela QLD - van park. stayed 2 nights. park was less than half full and the majority stayed only overnight.

Duaringa QLD "free" camp - I lunched only. There would have been at least 40 vans there.

Bedford Weir QLD - "free" camp - it was chockers ... at least 80 vans. Had trouble finding a spot. I have stayed there before and enjoyed it - not this time as it was worse than staying in a van park. It was claustrophobic. Only stayed overnight.

Emerald QLD - lunched at the info centre. On the way through the "free" camp at Botanical Gardens, under the bridge, had at least 12 vans/vehicles/tents(yes tents) at this was still at lunchtime. Talking to the bloke in the info centre about van parks and the "free" camp and he believes the van parks are struggling to get half occupancy even during this peak season.

Sapphire QLD - drove through on the way to Rubyvale. Van park looked about half full - "free" camp" had 7 very crowded in vans.

Rubyvale QLD - in the van park. I booked because I had always heard this place is full and buzzing with GNs. Been here 2 nights and the park is less than half full (about 7 vans)

The moral of this story is that there are still many GNs on the road and the "free" camps are attracting a lot of 'business' and it does seem to be at the expense (sorry about that word) of the van parks.

I do not know the solution, but this trip has made me rethink this whole "vanpark/camping" thing. This short, recent scenario above would indicate van parks are definitely not getting their share of the market. There are a myriad of reasons for sure, not the least that they charge too much (?) and provide services we don't want.

I do know that the general travelling public (GNs?) seem to put up with being overcrowded at a "rest area" they love to call a camping spot, and get it at the cost of the local ratepayers but will not shell out a $ to stay in a van park where at least they can have a bit more space - and given the size of most van parks - fewer neighbours.

Again, I don't know the solution but I know I find this so-called 'camping' at rest areas far too off-putting.

Cheers - John

Robert and Karen · Member

As someone who has a preference to stay in caravan parks, what happens when all the parks start to close due to low numbers?
I can understand wanting to free camp somewhere by a river with some peace and quiet, but to park for days at a rest area has no appeal what so ever for me,especially surrounded by 30 other vans. To say nothing of having to drive like a bat out of hell to get to the rest area first.
Maybe the solution is to limit the number of days in rest areas to one day? If it's outside a town then you have one night free and then use the local caravan park. It saves you some money but also supports the local caravan park. It also would mean in those areas where an overnighter is needed due to distance between parks, there will be a spot! If it is not near a town or caravan park then maybe 3 days?
I don;t know what the answer is but would hate to see the money spent by hard working van park owners go to waste. Maybe a little bit of balance needed?

Baz421 · Guru

Wombat 280 wrote:
Like all stories there are a number of sides not just two. My local council spends a small fortune on promoting the area and selling this back to the ratepayers as it's good for the community.. This good for the community line is hard to swallow for a rate payer seeing his rates been spent on tourism promotions . Council rates from all properties is based on the UCV hence, all owners pay rates and the council collects same irrespective of the use or non use as the case maybe . Obviously the shops occupied or not in the CBD have a higher rating as they have a higher UCV and someone owns the property so they pay and write it off come tax time . So now we have established the council base line revenue stream tell me how buying in sporting events brings any more money into a town from the land owners, all that comes out of such deals is over booked accommodation normally owned by out of towners , further strain on local infrastructure but NOT ONE CENT more goes into Council coffers. Yes it can be argued that they provide local jobs but not one more dollar to council to defray it's tourism costs. When time are good I've never seen a CVP put on free nights accommodation for travelers but when time are a little difficult they want to compel travelers to stay in their parks at inflated prices ..

Also take into account that most of the business people complaining about Nomads also serve on local councils and there in lies a problem strangling meaningful discussion on the matter of free camping.

I don't support the theory that free campers spent a lot of money locally , most carry there own supplies and stay a few days and spend very little, certainly nothing like the figures quote here

I think the above is a bit convoluted and I agree with some of it. However if the town is doing it tough and say 50% of the shops close,,, people leave etc etc,,, properties in the CBD (if your small town has one) devalue, UCV falls, but you still need to raise x $ for services from less people/property values = death of some towns.

If you don't support/believe the theory of free campers spending money locally ring the butcher shop at Surat QLD,,,, they'll set you on the right track.

Other small GN friendly towns regularly acknowledge that GN spend heaps and keep the businesses viable.

You say most GN carry their own supplies,,,,, well where do they get their supplies?????

Many towns rely on tourism to survive,,, if yours is thriving and doesn't then that is a good sign.

Baz421 · Guru

Robert and Karen wrote:
As someone who has a preference to stay in caravan parks, what happens when all the parks start to close due to low numbers?

This is a real issue and there is no one fits all answer,,,,, but discussions with others indicates if prices were more realistic to the needs (not wants) of clients then more would stay at CP's.

If 80% of the clients don't want swimming pools, jumping castles, $120 pn cabins, being woken at 4 AM by shiftworkers, then as business person surely you would see this market power speaking.

herbie · Guru

sandsmere wrote:
Nice little town , Nyngan .
However , we wont be staying there anymore . There has been a lot of publicity about
this council decision , and judging from a couple of other forums , a hell of a lot of other
travellers wont be staying there either .

We will stop there to leave our **** in the dump point . Being a CMCA member , I helped pay for that .

-- Edited by sandsmere on Tuesday 11th of June 2013 07:14:28 AM

When you say your CMCA member fee helped pay re the dump point, I am under the understanding that most of these dump points through out Oz ,are located in certain towns/ area's through funding from different state/government funding departments,that are given to CMCA to distribute to towns who meet what the CMCA deems to be a RV friendly town.

Grams · Guru

The council our town is in, did surveys sent to every business and household in the town asking them what they wanted the council to do to encourage tourists and help the town itself. They have helped make the CP bigger, by adding cabins, across the road they have a gorgeous huge playground, surrounded by a fence and all under shade cloth, BBQ's, parking under the trees, toilets, there is even a skate park. It's great to know the council asked the town first.

As for the towns that close the camp grounds. No it won't stop me visiting the town or spending money, We may not stay in the CP, but we may. Just because the alternative camping area is gone, doesn't mean it's a no go area. It's a shame, but I still want to visit. It just means to us that we have to travel a little further before we stop for the night.

The dog lady · Guru

I also have only one side to this story. As a solo on a pension it just isn't possible to pay to park the campervan. So a town either gets my fuel and food money or nothing!

NeilandRaine · Guru

Before we get to carried away with our own impotence, it is not the lack of or abundance of the travelling fraternity that make a town boom or bust. It is all about industry and work availability.
Motor cars make the big cities closer and the young ones who would of happily worked on the land or the local shop or welding shop etc now move on to greener pastures looking for work that isn't available at home. So much of what used to keep small towns going has now gone off shore, we allow, thanks to both sides of government, so much second rate produce from third world countries into Australia the farms cant compete. The world is changing thanks to globalisation and it would appear rural Australia is changing for the worst.
Don't blame the C/V park owners. In their attempt to keep the area viable the local council up rates, we all know the cost of power and water has gone through the roof. (maybe full time nomads might not notice the big increase in water and power as they don't have to pay for it) All the park owner wants to do is make a good living. You must appreciate that usually buying a caravan park is a big investment with a lot of risk. Don't condemn someone for wanting to get something back for their investment.
Count the amount of caravans and motor homes on the road. Most of these at one time were sold by a dealer who made around $2000/$3000 profit per unit. Maybe we should stop buying caravans to teach those greedy dealers a lesson, and I know we won't go the the area the dealer has his yard.
These days the boom towns seem to be the ones who are supported by the mining boom, not grey nomads
Now what myself and SWMBO do is, we stop at every town we come to and look about, I would hate to think I missed something really interesting because the caravan park had the free camp closed. We might buy something we might not, after we have looked about we move on to the next town and our sight seeing is never determined by what is available in relation to camping. Sometimes we will pull into a rest stop, never more than a night, sometimes we might spend a few days in a nice free camp or by a river someplace and other times we spoil ourselves with a week in a caravan park, usually near a big town because there is more to see.
Anyway, I seem to be getting long winded so I will finish now with take off the blinkers don't miss whats going on around you because you don't like the politics.