Hi there, I have a few questions (don't we all?!) I was hoping you may help us with.
We just ordered our new van yesterday, its a 20ft 2.6t New Age Oz Classic. We are really happy with the van and all, but now Im worried that my little 04 sti TD Navara wont be up to the task of towing it efficiently and effectively. Its breaked tow weight is 3000kg, which is all well and good, but this only leaves us 400kg, for food, water, clothes, genny etc.
What are peoples thoughts on the Navara as a tow vehicle for a van of this size? Is there anything we can add to allow it to tow more? Even another 200kg would make me feel better. We have a heavy duty clutch already installed, a brand new (nearly)3inch exhaust system and a Nissan towball, with a weight of 3.5ton. What are your thoughts on this...good, bad or ugly??
Also, with the New Age vans, apparently the draw bar thingy (I know, Im clueless, I've no idea what its called lol) doesn't just go halfway through the van, apparently it goes all the way to the back axel (according to hubby) but I thought they said all the way to the back of the van. Either way its really long. So would this act as a kind of stabiliser or do you think we would still require sway bars (I think that's what they're called lol)?
I know a LC would likely be a MUCH more appropriate tow vehicle, I've owned a 60 and 80 series so I know how awesome they are. But Im also worried about fuel economy of a 4.2lt diesel as apposed to my little 3.olt TD (which is fab for my horse float, but perhaps not our caravan????). Even though the LC is much more thirsty, I was kinda thinking perhaps because it wouldn't have to work as hard as the Navara perhaps it would deliver similar economy? Or am I barking up the wrong tree with that little theory? Also, as much as I'd LOVE a LC, money is an issue. We'd have to sell our Navara and we'd probably only get 13-15k for that and this wont buy us much of a LC...unless we dip into our savings (aka house deposit) or fuel money for our trip.
Im really keen to hear what you guys think. Consider me a great big sponge, we have so much to learn and Im really keen to learn it ALL!!!
Thanks again R&J PS: a question regarding water. We are planning on free camping as much as possible. What are peoples thoughts on how much water we will need and whether we'll need a socnd battery? Our van comes with about 130lt combined water tanks, one battery and we are getting solar fitted and will have a 2kva genny.
Also...what are WDH's and will I need them? lol. Sorry, Im a complete dunce when it comes to this stuff! On the upside, I love to learn, I learn fast and generally only need to be told things once!
Just as a word of caution and I do not know if it applies to your year but the three litre moter in some of the Nissans has got itself a bit of a reputation for melting pistons when worked hard. I am told the fitting of an EGT (exhaust gas tempriture ) and driving by it is a wise precaution. This is only what I have read but I have read it a few times.
Landy
__________________
In life it is important to know when to stop arguing with people
and simply let them be wrong.
400Kg payload is insufficient for a 20' Ensuite New Age Van. Without having the correct details on reservoir capacity, I'll take a punt.
2 X 95 lt water tanks = 190Kg. 2 X 9Kg LPG cylinders = 18Kg. 22Lt Hot Water Service = 22Kg. That's 230Kg of the 400Kg already used before your add power leads, hoses, bucket, broom, tools, outdoor chairs & table, food & drink plus what you put in the large fridge (?), cloths, bedding, pots/pans, cutlery, crockery etc etc, etc. Plus weight of fluids if any jerry can holders are attached and water in ther tiolet header tank if applicable.
I reckon you'll need at least 500Kg to keep legal or travel extremely light. Cheers, Ozjohn.
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Retired Engineer, Ex Park Owner & Caravan Consultant. Holden 2.8 Colorado - Roma Elegance 17'6" Pop Top. Location: Mornington Peninsula Vic.
What is the tare and ATM figures of the van? You should be able to ring your agent and find that out. We really need to know those figures to give you a meaningful reply
Also...what are WDH's and will I need them? WDH stands for weight distribution hitch. Some people call then load levellers or even worse, sway bars. When you couple a van to the tug you will notice the front end of the tug rise a bit. The effect is to remove some weight from the front wheels. This gives you reduced steering traction and you can also lock your front brakes more easily under those conditions. The WDH is used to restore the weight back onto the front wheels.
Without WDH the load the van imposes on the rear axle is equal to the ball weight plus the weight removed from the front wheels. People that do not realise that just think that the rear wheels carry only the ball weight. Most of them that carry a bit of a load in the tray will probably have the rear axle overloaded.
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PeterD Nissan Navara D23 diesel auto, Spaceland pop-top Retired radio and electronics technician. NSW Central Coast.
Like said above the three ltr will self destruct pistons when worked hard towing,iI've seen two already on this tripsThats a big van for a navara as they have a habit of bending chassis when heavily loaded. This is now becoming a problem with all the dual cabs, particularly when the tub is removed a replaced with a tray a canopy decause people are fitting longer trays trying to gain note loading space a the amount of overhang is bending the chassis.
Navara has had this problem for years,triton as well.I have seen new hilux bent a recently heard the new ranger doing the same so the Mazda will be a problem as well as they are the same vehicle.
Go the cruiser.
JC.
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Be your self; there's no body better qualified ! "I came into this world with nothing , I still have most of it"
we noted your reply here and as we have a Bt 50 and will tow a 22ft caravan when it is completed, we were interested to know where the chassis bent and was this under extreme conditions, off road or bitumen ?
The 3 litre Nissan motor problems were with Patrols in the early 90s. That problem was fixed and the later ones did not suffer the same fate. There was no problems with the Navaras only the patrols.
The twin cabs with the broken backs were caused by the fitting of airbags or having loads like slide on campers which overhang the tray or tub (and mostly accompanied with overloading.) The air bags carry the load on parts of the chassis that was not designed to carry any load. If you must strengthen the rear suspension do it by upgrading the springs.
I have not heard of any chassis breaking where WDH was being used. This would counteract any heavy loads in the rear of the truck. Remember all the bent chassis have been bent in the downward direction, not upwards.
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PeterD Nissan Navara D23 diesel auto, Spaceland pop-top Retired radio and electronics technician. NSW Central Coast.
we noted your reply here and as we have a Bt 50 and will tow a 22ft caravan when it is completed, we were interested to know where the chassis bent and was this under extreme conditions, off road or bitumen ?
As stated by PeterD, air bags will cause this problem when they have a high air pressure,these are only to assist with the load, not carry the bulk of it.
The other problem is they will bend between the rear cab mount a the front of the tray mount, this is on dual cabs.The problem is made worse where the tub is removed a replaced with a longer tray,too much overhang a the weight of towing a they bend upwards in the centre.
A friend just broke the chassis of his ford f250 ,combination of overloaded a air bags a that was with the standed tub,canopy,boat a caravan.
Travell over a speed hump a little to quick is one of the common causes.
JC.
Edit for spelling; tried to do this on the girls new tablet, too small for me.LOL
JC
-- Edited by justcruisin01 on Sunday 9th of June 2013 12:53:02 PM
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Be your self; there's no body better qualified ! "I came into this world with nothing , I still have most of it"
The 3 litre Nissan motor problems were with Patrols in the early 90s. That problem was fixed and the later ones did not suffer the same fate. There was no problems with the Navaras only the patrols.
The two i saw a few weeks back were both navaras.
JC.
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Be your self; there's no body better qualified ! "I came into this world with nothing , I still have most of it"
we were only talking about this this morning the difference between the 06 navara and our new colorado . the nav didnt go down on the sprins when the van was hitched up but the colorado goes down 28mm . makes night driving bad cause on coming traffic gives you the high beam flick all the time . well we got rid of our navara but it did tow our 2.700 tonne van with ease . on the sti you cant get 300 kgs of towbar weight its only the stx . as jim said air bags arnt a good thing for heavy loads unless you have coil rear end .
Although, as stated in my post, I have no personal experience with the three litre motor problem, one of the posts I have read is from a mechanic at a Nissan dealership who stated that, although the problem was not as prevelant in the Navara as the Patrol, they still had them come in fairly regularly with the same problem. He put the reason down to the Patrol being a bigger vehicle.
Please don't think I am trying to rubbish the Navara, I am purely trying to make sure Fick9736 has all information so as they can do some research and make an informed decision.
Landy
__________________
In life it is important to know when to stop arguing with people
and simply let them be wrong.
Hi there, I have a few questions (don't we all?!) I was hoping you may help us with.
We just ordered our new van yesterday, its a 20ft 2.6t New Age Oz Classic. We are really happy with the van and all, but now Im worried that my little 04 sti TD Navara wont be up to the task of towing it efficiently and effectively. Its breaked tow weight is 3000kg, which is all well and good, but this only leaves us 400kg, for food, water, clothes, genny etc.
What are peoples thoughts on the Navara as a tow vehicle for a van of this size? Is there anything we can add to allow it to tow more? Even another 200kg would make me feel better. We have a heavy duty clutch already installed, a brand new (nearly)3inch exhaust system and a Nissan towball, with a weight of 3.5ton. What are your thoughts on this...good, bad or ugly??
Also, with the New Age vans, apparently the draw bar thingy (I know, Im clueless, I've no idea what its called lol) doesn't just go halfway through the van, apparently it goes all the way to the back axel (according to hubby) but I thought they said all the way to the back of the van. Either way its really long. So would this act as a kind of stabiliser or do you think we would still require sway bars (I think that's what they're called lol)?
I know a LC would likely be a MUCH more appropriate tow vehicle, I've owned a 60 and 80 series so I know how awesome they are. But Im also worried about fuel economy of a 4.2lt diesel as apposed to my little 3.olt TD (which is fab for my horse float, but perhaps not our caravan????). Even though the LC is much more thirsty, I was kinda thinking perhaps because it wouldn't have to work as hard as the Navara perhaps it would deliver similar economy? Or am I barking up the wrong tree with that little theory? Also, as much as I'd LOVE a LC, money is an issue. We'd have to sell our Navara and we'd probably only get 13-15k for that and this wont buy us much of a LC...unless we dip into our savings (aka house deposit) or fuel money for our trip.
Im really keen to hear what you guys think. Consider me a great big sponge, we have so much to learn and Im really keen to learn it ALL!!!
Thanks again R&J PS: a question regarding water. We are planning on free camping as much as possible. What are pidn;t like hilleoples thoughts on how much water we will need and whether we'll need a socnd battery? Our van comes with about 130lt coned water tanks, one battery and we are getting solar fitted and will have a 2kva genny.
Hi R&J
I owned a 2005 Navara 3.0 STR with a ZD30 Engine and can speak from experience towing a Jayco Flamingo Outback Off-Road Camper Trailer that weighed in at 1670Kgs.
Forget it!! The Navara didn't like hill starts, and it was a constant push between 4th and 5th even on the flat!! Show it a hill and ytou could hear it start wheezing before we even got there, I miss old Bessie though she was my first new vehicle in Australia it was great for what I wanted it for, but as a tug, no way. Fuel useage was unreal, (bearing in mind when the camper trailer is wound down, it was no taller than the Navara) we even played with aerofoils on the roof to lessen the drag, a shocking tow vehicle for something so small and well within the tow capacity.
As for the melting piston scenario, this was rectified on all production models from 03 onwards and was more to do with the Nissan Patrol, a very underpowered engine for aush a large vehicle.
You have answered the question for yourself but I think you just need others to reassure your decision, I went through EXACTLY the same scenario when I bought my Cruiser, in fact a friend in the caravan industry told me in no uncertain terms that if I bought anythimng else other than a cruiser our friendship would end. I took his advice and will be eternally grateful. My rig is heavy though so there is nothing else. Have you explored other options? There are a few alternatives, but, not many.
Good luck
Mark
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Mark & Linda
A man who asks a question is a fool for five minutes, but ask no questions and your a fool for life!!
Today a customer had his 2006 Nissan Navara & poptop caravan towed in off the Gibb River Road (to Broome) at a cost of $3500, with a reported loss of drive when going up an incline!!!!!!
i took the gearbox out, the clutch is CACTUS'd and has overheated to the point where the ring gear (the tooth bit that the starter motor turns) has got so hot it has become lose on the DMF (dual mass flywheel), the pressure plate is bright blue (overheated) there is absolutely no friction material left on the centre plate, just a barrow load of dust, and the release bearing grease reached liquid form and is platered all over the gearbox, the front spigot bearing is rooted and the heat has melted the rear main oil seal, parts and labour around 2K all up 5.5K....... Caravan has been weighed and within specification of towing capacity.
PLEASE don't tow with a Navara............. PLEASE...........
Mark
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Mark & Linda
A man who asks a question is a fool for five minutes, but ask no questions and your a fool for life!!
Thanks so much everyone, for all the above advice, it has really given us a lot to think about, but at the same time, confirmed our original thoughts, as Mark said. So I'll be saying goodbye to the navara and Russ has decided to sell his prid e and joy (his commodore) as well so we've got more to spend on a tow vehicle. WeWe'll likely look at LC's, but would love to hear what other options people suggest? Also my next question will be re: WDH's (see, I know what they are now lol), electric breaks, after market water tanks and EVERYTHING else lol. Thanks again y'all.
My appologies, I was wrong about the weight, but not by much and the 2.6t was what the sales person told me. Here are the exact details. Approximate weights of an oz20e are: Tare: 2380kg ATM: 2780kg Ball: 140kg
As per my previous post:
400Kg payload is insufficient for a 20' Ensuite New Age Van. Without having the correct details on reservoir capacity, I'll take a punt. 2 X 95 lt water tanks = 190Kg. 2 X 9Kg LPG cylinders = 18Kg. 22Lt Hot Water Service = 22Kg. That's 230Kg of the 400Kg already used before your add power leads, hoses, bucket, broom, tools, outdoor chairs & table, food & drink plus what you put in the large fridge (?), cloths, bedding, pots/pans, cutlery, crockery etc etc, etc. Plus weight of fluids if any jerry can holders are attached and water in ther tiolet header tank if applicable.
I reckon you'll need at least 500Kg (600Kg better) to keep legal or travel extremely light. I would ask the manufacturer to increase the ATM for a greater payload allowance. Quite a few manufacturers have now increased their van payloads to a more realistic 500 - 600Kg.
The Ball weight of the Laden van will (Or should) be higher than the 140Kg quoted as that's for the van in its TARE condition (Unladen). Cheers, Ozjohn.
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Retired Engineer, Ex Park Owner & Caravan Consultant. Holden 2.8 Colorado - Roma Elegance 17'6" Pop Top. Location: Mornington Peninsula Vic.
How would they increase the payload? Is that likely to be costly exercise? I've discovered since my O.P that we do have only 400kg payload, which just doesn't seem enough. The bonus is, the van weighs slightly less than the sales person told us
How would they increase the payload? Is that likely to be costly exercise? I've discovered since my O.P that we do have only 400kg payload, which just doesn't seem enough. The bonus is, the van weighs slightly less than the sales person told us
As you're just ordered the van phone New Age and request the ATM be increased to a realistic figure. The GTM may also need to be increased. In most cases the increases are pretty straightforward as the van manufacturers GTM figure is quite often well below the chassis manufacturers certified GTM. If you already have the van then you can ask for a new VIN Plate to be issued, but if refused you could have an approved engineer upgrade the ATM and certify (Maybe a new Vin Plate) depending on state of registration. Ozjohn.
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Retired Engineer, Ex Park Owner & Caravan Consultant. Holden 2.8 Colorado - Roma Elegance 17'6" Pop Top. Location: Mornington Peninsula Vic.
