I personally don't begrudge anyone making use of designated free camping facilities. I respect that some gn's are on a pension and or very limited budget. I think most people would think the same.

However, what annoys me and apparently quite a few others are when gn's do start asking for more. It has been mentioned many a time on here requests for wider streets, larger parking, parking closer to facilities and many other requests without regards to costings of these. It seems those councils who don't offer these services are labeled cancerous, greedy, thieves and many other such derogatory names. Why is there a need for such negativity towards councils who cannot afford to do this? Why are there threats of boycotts and other such nastiness?

There have been council members that have posted on here in response to some of these requests, clearly stating why some of these requests cannot be met and then chided for their honest answers. Some on here are very narrow and close minded and just refuse to see other points of views.

I've seen too many times on here a basic statement of 'i paid my taxes and now want what's owed to me'. I fully understand the common view on here that 'most gn's are fair people. However, it's much like the preacher preaching to the choir. As soon as someone poses an opposite view they are attacked via pm's, personal insults and or both.

I also firmly feel that more than just a few gn's overrate themselves as a collective group. Whilst this forum may have 5000+ members, there are very few that actually post on a regular basis. You're not as big as a group as you think you are, and thus overrating the amount of money thinking is spent in these places.

My point with that statement is that there seems to be a general consensus that gn's are spending a lot of money in these towns. I just don't see that there really are that many that do spend up. I've personally seen people group up for one very big shop in a neighbouring town just to save money. Whist I don't have an issue with people doing that, it does negate the spending of money in smaller local towns.

I live in a very caravan friendly town. Yet on a daily basis I see gn's, not overseas backpackers, staying in sites far longer than the council approved limits. It's not just a few, it's many. I'm going to presume most on here will not believe this or just think I'm being negative for these comments. I'm not, I'm only being honest. But because so many gn's refuse to have a honest look at themselves, they just refute these type of statements.


So, whilst the majority on this site probably do do the right thing, sadly this forum is only a very small sample of all gn's out there. I really think GN's need to clean up their own acts before going on such an offensive against councils and caravan parks.

Yuglamron, my post is a NOT response to you directly, nor is it meant as any type of a personal attack on you either. It is just a general response to GN's as a whole.

 

Oops, edited because I meant to type 'not a response' in my last sentence.

-- Edited by gordon_adl on Sunday 28th of April 2013 03:34:28 PM

I agree, "free" is something different to Independent or self sufficient.

I don't see how it's related to anything regarding this post? It's a very small minor web site that is just basically saying they want free camping? In fact if you actually go to their facebook page, they have all of 771 likes. That's nothing. Seemed to me they state facts but don't actually give verification of any of their facts. Anyone can write anything and say it's a fact.

Btw, slightly off topic, but on Q&A the other week, a statistic was noted that 80% of all quoted statistics are made up :)

Duh wrote:

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Apologies to johnq for reposting a link he put on another thread which I think is worth reading and is very informative and relevant to this subject;

http://www.freechoicecamps.com.au/studiesstats.html 

 

 

-- Edited by Duh on Sunday 28th of April 2013 02:17:45 PM

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I agree... Gordon raises valid points. So does Yuglamron with "independent" camping. I like bush camping too. The word free has too many negative connotations. As to some GNs demanding more than their fair share, I was sitting in the dentist's waiting room the other day when there was a story on the telly about a B Double crash blocking the Pacific Hwy. One little old lady complained about trucks travelling too fast, and then another little old lady said, "Yes, they should have their own roads." Hehe. How much would it cost to build a second Pacific Hwy? Oh well... little old ladies can be forgiven, I suppose.

We are one of those that love to bush camp, independent, free camp.

Our reasons are, We love to fish the outback rivers of Australia where there are no towns as such.

                         We are also aged pensioners and have a limited income so Bush camping for us saves some  $s for other items.

                         We  have found over many years that bush campers also make great companions around the campfire.

 

There are many small towns in Australia that have Caravan parks Camping areas that are very modest in their charges and we visit these where we can.

We also stock up on food at these places plus fuel etc and when we have done the sums the extra we pay at their shops comes out at very little extra cost for us.

Even camping on a river one has to still buy bread, milk, fuel and other necessities in the local town.

One such town is Isisford in sth west Qld where the camping fee is $1.00 per day at the local council chambers, and I should add that the town is looking up because of the Grey Nomads that come and visit.

We camp out of town at Omah waterhole and do a trip into town at least twice per week to stock up have a coffee or ale.

 

God it's good to be an Aussie.

 

 

gordon_adl wrote:

---

I don't see how it's related to anything regarding this post? It's a very small minor web site that is just basically saying they want free camping? In fact if you actually go to their facebook page, they have all of 771 likes. That's nothing. Seemed to me they state facts but don't actually give verification of any of their facts. Anyone can write anything and say it's a fact. Duh wrote:

---

Apologies to johnq for reposting a link he put on another thread which I think is worth reading and is very informative and relevant to this subject;

http://www.freechoicecamps.com.au/studiesstats.html 

The title of this thread is Free Camping, not Independent Camping, so to me free choice camps is indeed related.  We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, how many statements on here are said or alluded to be fact too ????

 

 

 

-- Edited by Duh on Sunday 28th of April 2013 02:17:45 PM

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I did look at it but to be fair, only for about 10 minutes. I found it to be very inflamative. Perhaps I should reread but I saw a statement where it suggests the average RV spends 600 a week in these small towns. To me, that doesn't seem like a GN, more like a cashed up family on extended holidays. As such, I didn't really relate it to the gn's needs for free camping. 

Just to reitirate, I'm all for free camping and also for good constructive dialogue in regards to obtaining more free camp sites. What I don't like is inflamitive remarks, threats, boycotts and insulting name calling towards caravon parks. I think it actually 

goes against furthering the agenda of opening up more free camps. People just don't respond to threats I find. Open and constructive dialogue is the way to obtain positive results.

Below is from their home page...

'The very same industries that got rich on the back of the traveller - the caravan parks together with the caravan and motorhome manufacturers -  are funding a nationwide campaign to take away our right to choose where and when we can camp. They are using the profits from the sales of RVs and campsite rentals to us to wage war on us. 

One of the traditional freedoms enjoyed in Australia has been the right to pack up and head off into the wide blue yonder, pitch camp and watch the stars. Many of us RVers can remember the "old days" when our families camped in tents, delighting in the wide open spaces that Australia has to offer.

Later, many families graduated to a caravan with more mod cons, but they still appreciated the feeling of adventure. They holidayed in waterfront caravan parks and in outback bush camps; they travelled this vast land drawing pleasure from the great traditions of Aussie mateship and the warm welcome extended to travellers - attributes which still make travel in Australia a pleasure for residents and tourists alike.  And, best of all, many of us developed lifelong friendships with the new mates we met on the road.

In the 21st century, our self-contained homes on wheels have kitchens, toilet/showers and wireless broadband - in caravans, campervans, motorhomes, fifth-wheelers and camper trailers. We contain our wastewater and endeavour to "Leave No Trace". The spirit of adventure we enjoyed in the '40s, '50s and '60s is the same, though updated with modern furnishings and technology.

We don't expect to camp in the middle of the MCG, in the main street of every town or along the tidelines of beaches, but travellers in Australia should not be forced by business or legislated by protectionist government policies into spending every night in a caravan park - which is the stated aim of the industry association campaign. They are using highly paid lobbyists to approach government at all levels in an attempt to close down all freedom camping sites, bush camps and showgrounds and/or impose restrictions that make their use impracticable. They are using the profits from the sales of RVs and campsite rentals TO us to wage war ON us. 

Yet another issue is the impact on the economies of hundreds of small towns where RVers' expenditure contributes to the viability of small businesses. The well-known Balfour Consulting statistic is an average $600 pw per RV, resulting in a significant effect on the economy of a town with a nearby campsite or rest area.

We, the recreational vehicle (RV) travel public of Australia - currently numbering over 400,000 RVs on the road or approx 700,000 people - are an ever-increasing voting force. (Note: the caravan park industry association's own statistics show continued strong profit growth of 8-10% p.a. each year of the past 10 years.)

If we want to preserve our freedom to choose where and when we camp we must make our voices heard - and heard by every business owner in the RV trade, every local councillor, every state politician and every federal Member of Parliament.'

johnq wrote:

Gordon,

You may have had a cursory look at the face page.  I posted the site because it has links to a number of authoritative reports of interest.  It is well worth scrolling down a bit to open the links. Thanks to Duh for posting it again.

I can't claim any credit for the site, but those responsible have done a service to all by listing and linking to industry, government and university reports that many of us never see otherwise.

There is often no need to reinvent the wheel in gathering data.  A lot of solid information is already there because thoughtful university, industry and government researchers have been there first.

Cheers,

johnq

 

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Yuglamron - agree with you - Independent camping would be a better term. I think that's what your original post was about.

msg wrote:

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When I am travelling, I usually stop about 4-5 o,clock for the night. I am tired after a long day. I may make a quick meal and a cuppa and usually will watch TV and then go to sleep. I quite often don't even leave the van.

I get up and leave early the following morning. I use no facilities except to park there. I find for me it is not good value for the asking price of $35.

I prefer to stop along the road somewhere where it will not cost me anything. Can some CP operator tell me why I should stop at a CP?

Longer term stopovers where I wish to have a look at the area use a bit of power for the heating and fill up with water, I would use a CP although if you look at it from a rental space point of view, I could probably rent a unit for a week for the same cost. [agree with all of the above 100% - except for the 'roadside rest area' sleeping, our lifestyles are very similiar]

What narks me is value for money and the fact that CP's are hell bent on forcing people into their parks by lobbying government to close off all choice so that they can make a dollar. [and you need to also acknowledge the other side of the emotive coin - so called "Traveller Organisations" (particularly CMCA) have declared ongoing campaigns badgering the same CPs and Shires to provide extensive free rest stops within, or near, towns or they will include the town/region on their list called "Avoid these unfriendly places". No wonder "travelling GNs" (or "travelling bank accounts" as CMCA call us) are often an unwelcome visitor to a lot of east coast towns. My answer is to continue as a camper and stay away from large towns - if you want to visit a large town for shopping or sightseeing activities etc then go to a van park, pay the going tariff and get on with life - it is much too short to get ya knickers in a twist over this issue]

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Cheers - John

-- Edited by rockylizard on Monday 29th of April 2013 11:35:43 AM

The moment " free camping " is mentioned on sites like this one , the same tired old statements

come out from the same people over and over again .

The OP was meant to start a discussion on whether we should use Free camping or independent camping .

That was soon changed back to the usual old argument .  . Some people don't think very far ahead .

 

Anyway the good bit was the article Tonyq originally came up with , and Duh brought up . Some very good stuff in that . Thanks guys .

Freedom camping, independant camping, free choice camping, free camping, never heard any of these terms used until forums like this made me aware that some forum members are sensitive to the fact that they may be percieved as free loaders or cheapskates, and to be honest some forum posters certainly give the impression that they would hang onto a 20 cent piece so tight that the Queens head would scream.

I have been a traveller and a camper for most of my life and never saw myself as anything other than a (camper)

Not sure why I'm bothering to reply to this, it's all down to semantics, I guess if it makes you feel better to claim that you freedom, free choice or independant camp then go for it, people love to complicate things, I will continue to simply camp for the night, and when I leave the following morning leave no trace.

Santa wrote:

---

Freedom camping, independant camping, free choice camping, free camping, never heard any of these terms used until forums like this made me aware that some forum members are sensitive to the fact that they may be percieved as free loaders or cheapskates, and to be honest some forum posters certainly give the impression that they would hang onto a 20 cent piece so tight that the Queens head would scream.

I have been a traveller and a camper for most of my life and never saw myself as anything other than a (camper)

Not sure why I'm bothering to reply to this, it's all down to semantics, I guess if it makes you feel better to claim that you freedom, free choice or independant camp then go for it, people love to complicate things, I will continue to simply camp for the night, and when I leave the following morning leave no trace.

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 Gday...

I'm with you Santa ... however, the problem seems to stem not so much from 'campers' (as you and I seem to define the term) but from those who travel the highways, wanna stop near, or right in, towns overnight (or longer) and then expect all mod cons for free and leaving behind 'evidence' of their stay.

I have held off from commenting on this thread (as it is really only a continuation of the myriad of similar emotive posts) but gladly quote you "Not sure why I'm bothering to reply to this, it's all down to semantics, I guess if it makes you feel better to claim that you freedom, free choice or independant camp then go for it"

Cheers and happy camping wherever ya park ya tent/camper/van/5th wheeler/slide-on/swag or sleeping bag

Cheers - John

When I am travelling, I usually stop about 4-5 o,clock for the night. I am tired after a long day. I may make a quick meal and a cuppa and usually will watch TV and then go to sleep. I quite often don't even leave the van.

I get up and leave early the following morning. I use no facilities except to park there. I find for me it is not good value for the asking price of $35.

I prefer to stop along the road somewhere where it will not cost me anything. Can some CP operator tell me why I should stop at a CP?

Longer term stopovers where I wish to have a look at the area use a bit of power for the heating and fill up with water, I would use a CP although if you look at it from a rental space point of view, I could probably rent a unit for a week for the same cost.

What narks me is value for money and the fact that CP's are hell bent on forcing people into their parks by lobbying government to close off all choice so that they can make a dollar.

rockylizard wrote:

---

---

 but from those who travel the highways, wanna stop near, or right in, towns overnight (or longer) and then expect all mod cons for free and leaving behind 'evidence' of their stay.

Cheers - John

---

One of my pet peeves are the people who expect councils to provide no cost facilities within city or township area's, it's simply not a realistic expectation.

There was a post a while back complaining that a council employee moved them on for camping in the Adelaide East Park Lands, seriously, this is 1 km from the Adelaide CBD, anyone who cant understand that this is not an appropriate place to camp has some issues that need addressing.