New start for Tassie-Maybe?

Bucko · Senior Member

New start for Tassie-Maybe?

Gerty Dancer · Guru

www.abc.net.au/rural/tas/content/2013/02/s3689404.htm

I copied and pasted it Bucko, and all I did to make it active was click on the space bar at the end.

These sorts of arguments seem to pop up everywhere of late,and have been the subject of much discussion here, as well as around a lot of campfires, and at council meetings.... will see what happens.

-- Edited by Gerty Dancer on Saturday 16th of February 2013 01:17:07 PM

herbie · Guru

In my oppinion,if they close the free camping in Tassie they may as well close the place,we were there for 6 months and in that time we did stay in some c/ parks, but wow were they average for what they make you pay. We felt guilty paying forking out out hard earned chash to stay in some of them.When we knew how beautiful some or most of the free camps had to offer.Sounds strange that c/ park owners can dictate about fair playing field ...when what they charge for what they offer is way under par.Most c/ park owners was all profit and no out lay to up date facilities .So if a Coles is located in a town we will not have the choice to go to the little owner operated shp in the same town ( not a lot of difference in my way of thinking both shops sell groceries ) or another point will they end up closing all the farmers markets down because Coles sell fruit and vegies. The bottem line to all this huff and puff is if c/ parks get there way and close down free camps ( and it wont end just with Tassie IF THEY GET THERE WAY )..c/ parks will just increace the prices even more as we wont have a choice left if we wont to travel this supposedly free country. thats my rant for the day. Gee i feel better already.

-- Edited by herbie on Saturday 16th of February 2013 04:07:10 PM

Bucko · Senior Member

Hi Jules,

NO, I'm not in Tassie unfortunately, not until things change. If I was in Tassie, I would have been at John's camper waiting with my blood presure monitor for when he came back from walking up Mt Roland!!! my blood presure goes up just thinking about it.

Kevin.

-- Edited by Bucko on Saturday 16th of February 2013 04:25:32 PM

-- Edited by Bucko on Saturday 16th of February 2013 04:27:27 PM

briche · Guru

Having just listened to the interview I was encouraged to hear the outcome that looks like it might turn around to some sensible decision. As an Tassie boy it just makes me so angry that the powers to be can be so one eyed and allow the money hungry CP owners call the shots. One thing that so many people seem to have forgotten or chose to forget is that the CP scenario is moved on from what it was years ago. People in the past used CP's to be their holiday base and just chill ofrom the there with the family and friends. As we all know that's all changed but the CP's just seem to not reconize that but it just does not work anymore. From what we saw in our trips around NSW and QLD last year many of the CP just cannot accommodate the modern Motorhome or Caravan and so it's to their own end that they will miss out. Having see some of the CP's in Tassie they need to upgrade their facilities to meet the new traveller or they are just going to lose out. I know that means $'s but that's the way it is. When you go to some of the towns in NSW and QLD that have moved outside the box you find the whole town / traveller just works like a dream. The other thing that makes me more than a bit angry is why the cost to Motorhomes and caravans on the Spirit of Tas is so high. I just think it should be the same off peak value across the whole year. When you sort all these matters out the Tassie economy thing will just explode to levels that they have not seen before but maybe that's asking too much for any government to understand. Sorry to take up so much room but it's a close to the bone issue with me.

Take care

Brian.

-- Edited by briche on Saturday 16th of February 2013 10:02:07 PM

jules47 · The Happy Helper

So Bucko - are you in Tasmania at the moment????

Yuglamron · Guru

Democracy out the window.

I was under the impression that councils are supposed to be elected to run their local areas for the benefit of all the residents and ratepayers.

To kowtow to the vocal minority (Caravan Park Owners) seems to me to be democracy out the window. Is this democracy at work. What about all the other businesses who lose out when travellers bypass the area?

CP's have their place and some prefer them, but to deny others the right to do their own thing smacks of big brother.

Pete in Gisborne · Veteran Member

Yuglamron wrote:
Democracy out the window.
I was under the impression that councils are supposed to be elected to run their local areas for the benefit of all the residents and ratepayers.
To kowtow to the vocal minority (Caravan Park Owners) seems to me to be democracy out the window. Is this democracy at work. What about all the other businesses who lose out when travellers bypass the area?
CP's have their place and some prefer them, but to deny others the right to do their own thing smacks of big brother.

Sadly most local governments have been hijacked by political parties and specific interest groups. I remember the current premier in Qld boasting how he was the most senior Liberal in the country once when he was Mayor of Brisbane. So much for rate-payers interest. I have always wondered how much the placement of cabins in caravan parks have affected the local motels. Not much fuss when that all started to happen.

I can see the day when we will all have to free camp as the caravan parks will have changed to cabin parks, or local developers have got the council owned parks land for a pittance and built "Condominiums" for us well heeled travellers to rent. wink wink

jetj · Guru

They're already complaining about the lack of travevellers down there I believe. Tough!

DandS · Senior Member

Thanks Kevin,

It appears that some have no idea where their bread and butter comes from.

We have probably used more van parks than free camping over the years. Its been good to be able to have that choice.

If they get their way, chances are, in a couple of years, there may be some real cheap van parks up for sale, as a result of their own economic greed.

I remember many years back, (maybe close to 30 years), some service stations were having tyre guages installed that you had to put money in to and buy the air for your tyres.

I and others stopped going to our local servo to buy fuel and air. Wasnt long before he had free air available again. The extra quid he initialy made, he lost, and more.

Does any one remember these or know if there is still about??

If people abandon your business or service, you have no business.

Regards

Daryl

(edited because I forgot to add my name, I'm tired)

-- Edited by DandS on Sunday 17th of February 2013 02:56:09 AM

Sheba · Guru

Bucko wrote:
Hi All,
my apoligies to Sheba in advance, I still can't get it to go active. Listen to the radio interview.
www.abc.net.au/rural/tas/content/2013/02/s3689404.htm

Kevin.

Hi Kevin. I couldn't get it to go clickable either. Had to type the whole thing out to make it work. Did it on the last page, so have copy/pasted to here.

www.abcnet/rural/tas/content/2013/02s3689404.htm

Cheers,

Sheba.

jules47 · The Happy Helper

Bucko wrote:
Hi Jules,
NO, I'm not in Tassie unfortunately, not until things change. If I was in Tassie, I would have been at John's camper waiting with my blood presure monitor for when he came back from walking up Mt Roland!!! my blood presure goes up just thinking about it.
Kevin.

-- Edited by Bucko on Saturday 16th of February 2013 04:25:32 PM

-- Edited by Bucko on Saturday 16th of February 2013 04:27:27 PM

Just sent you a PM - but yes John was exhausted after Mt Roland - we couldn't get on to him and had to get someone to go and see if he was ok - but he had moved on to Kentish Park with no phone or internet access - found him eventually though!

jimricho · Guru

The principle of competitive neutrality is a part of national competition policy and is a reqirement that to the best of my knowledge applies across all three levels of government.

It requires that when a government body (including local government) supplies goods and/or services in direct competition with private enterprise it does so on a competitively neutral basis and does not take advantage cost savings (rates, taxes, insurances, cost of capital, etc) that are not available to a private competitor.

Caravan Park operators invest a lot of time and capital in their businesses and are subject to very significant costs including rates and taxes and plethora of other direct and indirect regulatory costs that are imposed on them by state and local governments. Seeking to cover these costs and to get a reasonable return on their investment in time and money is not being money hungry any more than you or I doing likewise when we invest our "hard earnt" or supply our services. Nor is seeking to be protected from having their businesses made unviable by councils providing campsites at little or no charge.

Much of the fees paid to caravan parks is injected back into the local economy by way of rates, wages, and the purchase of many goods and services and in that regard the CP customers inject more into the local economy than the free campers. CP customers also directly spend as much locally as do the free campers too.

I consider the provision of free/low cost camping in places where facilities otherwise don't exist or are inadequate, or are a part of fatigue management on highways, to be a good thing and beneficial to all Caravan/RVers whether we use them regularly or not. Time limits at these sites is a fair compromise, not only to the in-town park operators but to fellow travellers to stop the early arrivals from hogging sites for extended periods.

Jim

GaryKelly · Guru

It's all very well for CPs to make a reasonable return from their investment. That's a no-brainer. On the other hand, an age pensioner like me has about $350 a week to spend. That's about $50 a day for accommodation, food, fuel, repairs, clothing, maintenance, etc. If it weren't for free or cheap camping, the dream of travelling Oz would remain just that... a dream. There are already many activities and pleasures that are beyond the fiscal reach of people on fixed incomes. Should we be denied yet another?

beiffe · Guru

I have no problem with caravan parks or the people that utilise their facilities but I do object to the attitude that I must use them because they are there.

I bush camp because that's the way I want to spend my last days, seeing the Australia that my ancestors saw (or a bit of it) and as an avid photographer I can not get the shots I want in a caravan park.

If I cant stay in a camp site in the area then I move on to another town/area.

I also take the same option for my supplies etc. If I don't stop in the area I don't buy product there either as I consider the town that allows me to camp in their area deserves my patronage.

I also select these same areas for doing my volunteering as I travel.

I could give more details where this idea of travelers MUST use the Caravan parks is hindering the recovery after the floods etc in QLD as towns that have succumbed to the lobby can now not allow volunteers on the show grounds and ovals etc. Might upset the caravan park??? Will be interesting to see the outcome.

Regards
Brian

jimricho · Guru

GaryKelly wrote:
It's all very well for CPs to make a reasonable return from their investment. That's a no-brainer. On the other hand, an age pensioner like me has about $350 a week to spend. That's about $50 a day for accommodation, food, fuel, repairs, clothing, maintenance, etc. If it weren't for free or cheap camping, the dream of travelling Oz would remain just that... a dream. There are already many activities and pleasures that are beyond the fiscal reach of people on fixed incomes. Should we be denied yet another?

Sorry mate, but being on a limited budget (most of us are) doesn't give us an automatic entitlement to be subsidised to a lifestyle to which we would wish to become accustomed. The world doesn't owe us a living. There are many things in life that I can't afford but I don't expect them to be provided to me for free.

This may limit your choice of campsites but them's the breaks.

blaze · Guru

I think tassie will always have a lot of free/cheaper camping spots, its just the nature of the breed. We are a small population and understand how the dollar goes around. You will find that the tradional cp owner is also the one that goes to a free/cheap campsite for their time away. We spend a lot of our free time doing outdoor recreational persuits and that more often than not mears packing mun and the kids in the car or forby and heading to our favourite fishing spot and putting a tent/camper under the trees on the bank. I find most hystera about tassie free/cheap camping dosnt come from the locals but from media and mainland travels.
cheers
blaze

jimricho · Guru

A good point Robert, puts the debate into perspective.

GaryKelly · Guru

I don't mind the limitations, Jimricho, just as long as nobody reduces those limitations to zero.

Bucko · Senior Member

I have been traveling to Tassie for the last 20 years and the local people I have talked to, have complained about the loss of their free camping sites, the National parks are trying to take over the conservation areas and "protect" them,which have been free camps for as long they have existed and are some of the best maintained areas in Tassie and don't need "protecting", it's the freedom of choice camping in Tassie that appealed most to me, yes, I'm on a pension but I made a choice to go to Tassie because once I paid the fare across, which I'm not complaining about, I made it up with the free camps that the LOCALS have always enjoyed.

I got a message from Jules 47 last night, who is in Tassie at the moment and she told me that they are now charging a site fee for the Adventure bay camping area, collected by a ranger, it's only $5.00 to be sure but it was and always has been a free camp on Bruny for the locals every holiday period, they start low but where do they go but up, when you take away free camps in any area, you hurt the local population more than the traveling public, we can always go else where.

Kevin

jules47 · The Happy Helper

Re Adventure Bay (or The Neck) campground in Tassy - it is $5 per person -!

herbie · Guru

In my appinion,if they close the free camping in Tassie they may as well close the place,we were there for 6 months and in that time we did stay in some c/ parks, but wow were they average for what they make you pay. We felt guilty paying forking out out hard earned chash to stay in some of them.When we knew how beautiful some or most of the free camps had to offer.Sounds strange that c/ park owners can dictate about fair playing field ...when what they charge for what they offer is way under par.Most c/ park owners was all profit and no out lay to up date facilities .So if a Coles is located in a town we will not have the choice to go to the little owner operated shp in the same town ( not a lot of difference in my way of thinking both shops sell groceries ) or another point will they end up closing all the farmers markets down because Coles sell fruit and vegies. The bottem line to all this huff and puff is if c/ parks get there way and close down free camps ( and it wont end just with Tassie IF THEY GET THERE WAY )..c/ parks will just increace the prices even more as we wont have a choice left if we wont to travel this supposedly free country.

-- Edited by herbie on Sunday 17th of February 2013 10:30:00 PM

beiffe · Guru

So are they trying to stop families for visiting national parks now in Tas

Mum and Dad and the 4 kids works out to $30 a night for primitive camping.

Possibly cheaper in the local caravan park and let them spend all day on their computers and Ipad etc.

Regards
Brian

Old Crofter · Senior Member

Thought this may clear some of it up, 2 adults 3 kids $15.00

South Bruny National Park

National park entry fees apply to South Bruny National Park except for the Neck Reserve.

Contact

Parks and Wildlife Service - South Bruny Island National Park

Fees

The following camping fees at Cloudy Corner, Jetty Beach and Bruny Neck apply:

Camping (max 6 per tent site)	per night
2 people (minimum fee)	$10.00
Each additional adult (18+)	$5.00
Each additional child (5-17, under 5 no charge)	$2.50
Family (2 adults, 3 children)	$15.

National park entry fees apply, except for the Neck Reserve.

Cloudy Bay

There are two camping grounds at Cloudy Bay. The first one is The Pines on Cloudy Bay Road, very small, uneven sites, pit toilet. No fees are charged.

The second is Cloudy Bay Corner Beach campground, accessed via the beach (2 kms) - 4WD advised, boat launch from beach at Cloudy Corner. Pit toilets. Bring own water and firewood.

Jetty Beach - Cape Bruny. Two pit toilets, non-treated tank water (seasonal only), picnic shelters, bring own firewood, safe swimming for children. Boat launch from beach. Caravan access is available.

The Neck Reserve

The Neck Reserve is outside the national park no park entry fees apply.

Pit toilet, day use shelter, open fireplace, bring own firewood, non-treated tank water (seasonal only). Caravan access is available.

additionally having just spent a week down there and talking with some locals and a Ranger,it would seem that the local hoon issue has albut disappeared from the camps as a result of the modest charge. Police were called to shift hoons from the north of the Island during the festive season. There are no camp sites in the North. As far as the toilets were concerned they were cleaned and a good supply of paper maintained during our stay. Fee were reasonable in my view.

Cowboy7307 · Senior Member

GaryKelly wrote:
It's all very well for CPs to make a reasonable return from their investment. That's a no-brainer. On the other hand, an age pensioner like me has about $350 a week to spend. That's about $50 a day for accommodation, food, fuel, repairs, clothing, maintenance, etc. If it weren't for free or cheap camping, the dream of travelling Oz would remain just that... a dream. There are already many activities and pleasures that are beyond the fiscal reach of people on fixed incomes. Should we be denied yet another?

Just what garry said , we are in same boat , but we have never gone free camping as yet would like to but we are not set up for it,

But also in the free site in Latrobe just now it is full of rigs that i would have to sell my house to buy $10000+, not saying you have not worked for that i worked hard as well to get what we have, but people see that rig an say why do the Bitch about $25 a night thy can well aford it, Do we realy spend more in town when we are on holiday ,when i go on holiday its to get away not walk round shops buying stuff, but i still have to buy food and petrol ,

-- Edited by Cowboy7307 on Monday 18th of February 2013 06:49:46 AM

beiffe · Guru

Some of us are on the road full time.

Many could not afford to pay the CP fees as it is often cheaper(especially in QLD) to hire a serviced apartment than stay at the park.

I would consider a serviced apartment would have a higher initial build cost and also a higher maintenance costs as they clean your apartment every day and you have lots of area and can often have visitors stay overnight as many have extra rooms. Programmers sent out for day or so would just use the extra room at no cost in places where I stopped.

While working I often stayed in serviced apartments as they were as cheap or cheaper than a cabin in the park and I could leave early in the morning and often when I returned My washing (done in the shower) was laid out on the bed and I had clean towels etc and the benches and tables were all cleaned so I could come back to the room and grab a bite to eat and then go to bed, get up in the morning and cook brecky and leave the dishes etc and it was all done when I got back. The management were happy with that as I usually arrived back in the room after midnight and was gone before 5 in the morning so sleep time was important.

On the spending part many of us stay away from large towns and capital cities are a definite NO NO.

I buy my produce and get my repairs services etc where I camp. This means if I can camp in their area then I don't buy food fuel etc in their town and I don't get work done there. Also I don't do voluntary work there and many of the full time nomads give considerable time to voluntary work.

A fare percentage of the volunteers for Blazeaid are full time nomads who often stay for several weeks to months in an area giving their time and work for free. Should we be forced to pay the CP fee and then work in their area for free after these disasters as well as other times. Don't laugh it has been suggested at some towns.

So as always there is horses for courses. When on holidays or at some times many use the parks but I cant see where we should all use them all the time as if the full timers were forced into the parks then there would be no room for the holidayers. Where would you stay and how much would the fees rise when/if there was that much demand when even now they are filling their parks with cabins in direct competition to the hotels and motels and I have not seen them claiming assistance or protection.

This is just the wedge, what about the public toilets and picnic grounds will they be next. Don't laugh as the senerio we are in now was suggested not that long ago and every one scoffed and now it is a serious threat to our way of life.

Some people put their lives savings into their rig and sell the house so should a person with the $100,000 house be also excluded from rest stops etc.

I like to walk around the shops, always have but I do it also where I am welcome. It is often my only contact with other people for a week or so.

Regards
Brian

Bucko · Senior Member

Well stated Brian, we don't claim privliage but spend where we are welcomed, if the welcome is not there then we will and do go elsewhere, the point made earlier about hoons at the neck on Bruny, if there are more responsible campers in these areas the hoons are less likely to take up residence and cause problems.

The free camp at preservation bay near Penguin is a good example of grey nomads providing a safer enviroment for existing buildings, the surf club there is in an exposed and fairly isolated position, in regards to theives breaking in, the fact that there are usually 5 or more vans or motorhomes there and people wandering around, provides a barrier to vandals and theives, we do more than just spend, we clean up after others and mostly leave the area better than we find them.

Kevin