new agm batteries

musketeer · Veteran Member

new agm batteries

musketeer · Veteran Member

hi

we bought our 2 new agm fullriver batteries which are fully charged ,we have changed the charger over to gel and we have adjusted the steca controller to gel as well but the regulator is saying that the batteries are on low voltage ,any ideas as we know the batteries are fully charged.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Fullriver AGM batteries are NOT GEL batteries, they are AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat), as the name says.
The charge requirements are different. Google Fullriver, they have excellent information on their web site.

Cheers,
Peter

Cruising Cruze · Guru

Hi there you lucky pair

Just go to a battery world place and get yourselfs an digital or analog volt display

or spend 16 dollars at Bunnings and get an digital volmeter

I Hope this will help you

regards John

wasn_me · Guru

Hi Musketeer,

You adjust the steca to gel for agm or gel,you have done the right thing there. Is your 240 volt charger adjustable to agm? What makes you say the batteries are low on charge? A "state of charge" meter (S.O.C.) as in the steca is a more accurate indication of the batteries charge than a voltmeter. It can take 12 hours to get a battery from 90% to 100% as a smart gharger will go into float around 90% S.O.C. I'm not knocking using a voltmeter, I use one all the time.

Cheers Pete

musketeer · Veteran Member

thanks guys
we adjusted the steca and the battery smart charger amd we have a volt meter ,we know the batteries are working but the steca keeps flashing an error of low voltage ,we have tried disconnecting the batteries and starting all over again but still the same problem,its like it the steca isn't recognising the agm batteries

wasn_me · Guru

I had the same problem with a van. It occured after the battery had been totally discharged. The steca showed low voltage & wouldn't input any solar charge, even after charging the battery with 240 volt ctek. I disconnected the steca & reconnected in the correct sequence (as per instruction manual), make sure there is no solar input during this procedure, (cover the panels with something). All was fine after disconnecting & reconnecting. It is esential to use the correct sequence of connecting to the steca, otherwise the steca doesn't know what voltage it's dealing with.

If this fails to rectify the problem maybe the steca has failed.

Pete

wasn_me · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
I guess the message is get a better charger then, because GEL and AGM typically need different treatment to get the best from them.

And I have never heard AGMs described as "wet" before. That term is usually reserved for batteries containing liquid electrolyte, whether open or sealed. Neither AGMs nor GEL batteries have liquid electrolyte.

AGMs are not quite "fully sealed" either. They are generally referred to as VRLA, which means Valve Regulated Lead Acid. They have a pressure release valve that opens if they get over pressured so they can release excess hydrogen.

Cheers,
Peter

Peter,

You are correct on all points. There are better regulators out there, steca are well priced, easy to use, reliable & give good information. Batteries seem to last OK. There is a Chinese copy around which are very unreliable.

To refer to AGMs as "wet" is confusing from the point of charging. They are NOT a wet cell flooded battery.

I just had a look at an "OZ charge" 240 volt charger I just fitted to a van. It has calcium, wet cell & gel, charge settings. This brings up an interesting point, how does a Ctek 240 volt charger know what type of battery it is charging?

Cheers Pete

-- Edited by wasn_me on Monday 31st of December 2012 05:02:16 PM

musketeer · Veteran Member

thanks guys ,we will keep trying

musketeer · Veteran Member

hi
ok we disconnected the steca and reconnected it as advised by our brain trust on here ,we have set the battey charger to flooded as advised by the charger maker{solarforce} and have set the steca to Li as advised by steca as it IS a lead acid sealed battery AGM not a gell {as we were advised to set it on by the battery retailer} and voila!!!!!!! all is fine here in culburra, another happy camper with a lot of help from our friends
thanks guys

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

musketeer wrote:
hi
ok we disconnected the steca and reconnected it as advised by our brain trust on here ,we have set the battey charger to flooded as advised by the charger maker{solarforce} and have set the steca to Li as advised by steca as it IS a lead acid sealed battery AGM not a gell {as we were advised to set it on by the battery retailer} and voila!!!!!!! all is fine here in culburra, another happy camper with a lot of help from our friends
thanks guys

Still a lot of confusion here....

It is NOT a Li battery (which are NOT lead acid).

AGMs and GELs are both sealed lead acid batteries, but with different construction.

Cheers,

Peter

Bucko · Senior Member

Who says we are on own own out here???? well done all you guys, I know where to look next time I stuff up or some smart a*se shop assistant gives me advice on what he's selling me, who do you trust these days?? "The brain trust" that who.

Bucko (Kevin).

musketeer · Veteran Member

hi guys
boy are we glad you are here to help us amateurs ,what would we do without you ? thanks again

wasn_me · Guru

Peter, Li on the steca stands for Liquid.

Musketeer, you must set the steca to gel for AGM batteries. (If you use a Gel or AGM battery, then you must set the battery type to Gel. An incorrect battery type setting can damage the battery) Quoted directly from the steca instruction manual.

AGM batteries are wet cell, the liquid is absorbed in a glass mat, hence the name. AGM batteries are fully sealed, this is one of the reasons for a different charge setting. AGM & Gel batteries are typically charged at 13.8volts. Wet cell batteries or lead acid batteries are typically charged at 14.2 volts. If fully sealed batteries are charged at the higher voltage damage to the battery can occur, & possibly personal injury.

240 volt chargers should be set to AGM or Gel, for AGM batteries, for the same reasons.

The problem with the steca would have been in the connection sequence. altering settings will only alter the charge voltage & shouldn't affect the operation.

Cheers Pete

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

I guess the message is get a better charger then, because GEL and AGM typically need different treatment to get the best from them.

And I have never heard AGMs described as "wet" before. That term is usually reserved for batteries containing liquid electrolyte, whether open or sealed. Neither AGMs nor GEL batteries have liquid electrolyte.

AGMs are not quite "fully sealed" either. They are generally referred to as VRLA, which means Valve Regulated Lead Acid. They have a pressure release valve that opens if they get over pressured so they can release excess hydrogen.

Cheers,
Peter

Bucko · Senior Member

It all gets very confusing, I have a solar system in the camper that is lead acid and one at home that is AGM, the solar charge regulator on the AGM is a Morningstar, the manual clearly states that AGM batteries are to be considered "wet cell" because the electrolyte is retained in fibreglass mats between the plates and these instuction are in the sealed battery section of the instructions and as " Peter" has said they are not sealed so have a release valve, some newer AGM battery designs recommend constant voltage charging to 14.7v, for cycling applications, charging to 14.4 to 14.5 is often recommended.

AGM batteries are better suited to low discharge applications than daily cycling, these batteries should not be equalised, other than that, they should be considered "wet" for charging purposes, AGM are affected by heat as well, the optimum charging temperture range is 5 degC to 35DegC, they can lose up to 50% of their service life for every 8DegC above 25DegC, It gets more confusing doesn't it?? Whoever writes the manuals should all get together and have one story, don't you think???

Kevin-Bucko

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

The best advise is to refer to the battery manufacturer's data.
The most appropriate Fullriver AGM for RV use is the DC Series (they also make other variants suited for stand by power supplies and for cranking and traction applications, so it is important to buy the 'right' AGMs)

Luckily, Fullriver publish very good data on their batteries.
This is a pdf on the DC Series, but a quick search will find lots of other information too.
http://www.fullriver.com/products/admin/upfile/DCseriesbrochures.pdf

Cheers,
Peter

musketeer · Veteran Member

wow this is mind boggling,the guy from solarforce where our charger is made ,told us to put the charger on flooded ,I gave him the exact make and model of the battery and he said that flooded was the setting not gel,I am even more confused now. On the box that the batteries came in it says agm deep cycle valve regulated lead acid battery,so you can see where us novices can get confused as it is saying it is an agm but also lead acid and on the fullriver website this model DC105-12 comes under a table as gel batteries confuse mind blowing ,yes

-- Edited by musketeer on Tuesday 1st of January 2013 08:04:32 AM

Happywanderer · The Master

I will be buying a new house battery in the next few days. My little century is not doing the job at all.

Now, I know I have to get, from advice of so many, a Marine? AGM? Deep Cycle? Battery. Everyone gives different advice, not sure if that can all be got in the one battery and what size do I get, and where will I find one at the best price?

Forgot to mention I have solar panels 120 wtt.

-- Edited by Happywanderer on Tuesday 1st of January 2013 01:51:10 PM

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

A DC105-12 is definitely an AGM, not a GEL battery.
It is NOT wet.

Cheers,
Peter

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

"Marine" is a nonsense description. It is supposed to mean 'tough' to take the vibration, but it can be mostly sales talk.
Both AGM and GEL will take lots of vibration because the plates are held well inside.
AGM is more tollerant to electrical abuse (charging / discharging) than GEL and would be my recommendation.

I have heard that AGMs are intollerant to high heat (like found in engine compartments) but have no personal experience with that.

Then there are different types of AGMs for different applications. The best for RVs are those designed for deep cycling. Others are designed for standby or starting applications (although I am currently using a standby AGM for starting the OKA).
The Fullriver deep cycle AGM is the DC series, available in a large range of sizes and voltages (see the link I posted earlier).

Cheers,
Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Tuesday 1st of January 2013 07:49:33 PM

03_troopy · Guru

musketeer wrote:
wow this is mind boggling,the guy from solarforce where our charger is made ,told us to put the charger on flooded ,I gave him the exact make and model of the battery and he said that flooded was the setting not gel,I am even more confused now. On the box that the batteries came in it says agm deep cycle valve regulated lead acid battery,so you can see where us novices can get confused as it is saying it is an agm but also lead acid and on the fullriver website this model DC105-12 comes under a table as gel batteries mind blowing ,yes

-- Edited by musketeer on Tuesday 1st of January 2013 08:04:32 AM

You may have been viewing the wrong page or site. Fullriver DC-series lists them as an AGM battery. Their Gel Cells have a "G" in the part number.

allinone · Senior Member

Happywanderer wrote:
I will be buying a new house battery in the next few days. My little century is not doing the job at all.

Now, I know I have to get, from advice of so many, a Marine? AGM? Deep Cycle? Battery. Everyone gives different advice, not sure if that can all be got in the one battery and what size do I get, and where will I find one at the best price?
Forgot to mention I have solar panels 120 wtt.

-- Edited by Happywanderer on Tuesday 1st of January 2013 01:51:10 PM

Wow so confusing....perhaps you can tell us what you get and how it goes so as I can take this on board when I need to upgrade my batteries too. Currently have 120w solar and 2x105AH marine deep cycle wet cell batteries. But would consider 1x200+AH wet cell battery so as to minimise connections etc....

Happywanderer · The Master

Son in law has told me to go for a Marine, the bigger the better. Says he was advised by two different companies Deep Cycle should not be run down and will never charge back up with the alternator while travelling.
He also said a Marine AGM would be very expensive.