Seeking Tug Advice

jimricho · Guru

Seeking Tug Advice

Plendo · Guru

I am almost afraid to ask, given the recent emotions on the forum about this topic, but it is a topic I want to learn more about, and I recognise there is a huge amount of experience reading this very post.

Carol and I are planning to set up our rig in the next year, to get on the road for trips of ever increasing length. We are planning to use a van around 21ft, with a tare weight around 2,100 kg. We plan to have the manufacturer give it a high payload (abot 800kg), thus we would never need to worry about overloading, and if we find we want more solar then we just add it.

We are about 90% sure of the van we will use. The tow vehicle is another story, we have lurched from one direction to another based on what are probably not relevant reasons.

We started thinking the Ranger or Colorado were the right answer. Large storage, bags of all important torque, and drive more like a car than a truck. Then I realised the tug would be used to get to and from work in the city for a while, and the size of the big dual cabs ruled them out.

I then focused on the Jeep Grand Cherokee, great for towing, good space, good price, but that nagging reminder of it being a Jeep, and memories of the horror stories of the Jeep lemons. OK, so buy new, and keep it under three years. Hmm, still that nagging worry.

I then looked at the good old Toyota, and unfortunately price is an issue, and they hold there value, so they are very old with a lot of kilometers on the clock before they become affordable.

Recently I have looked at the new Colorado 7, and it looks like a "sensible" if not terribly satisfying choice. Initial reviews indicate that it is closer to the truck than the car.

Even more recently I have stumbled across the Land Rover family, both the Disco and the Range Rover start off expensive (just as expensive as a Toyota), but they depreciate quickly, and it is possible to buy a three year old Toorak tractor with not very many kilometers for about the same as a new Jeep or Colorado7.

There you see my dilema, and I would love people to allow me to benefit from their experience either good or bad.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Plendo · Guru

Thanks Jim, I like the Pajero, rented one for four days recently, and it performed well.

I was actually dissapointed when I discovered how the ball weight drops when your trailer weight exceeds 2500kg. Since then I have been observing rigs with Pajeros as tow vehicles and many appear to have too much weight on the ball, with the back of the vehicle sagging noticably.

I am lead to believe the correct ball weight is between 8 and 15% of trailer weight, thus I had effectively removed the Paj from my list.

deb-gary · Senior Member

i have a yr old isuzu dmax and love it(auto) going to townsville in 2 weeks so it will be tested but i am a car dealer and buying the right vehicle is not easy i spent hours studying vehicles and was set on a 100 series v8 cruiser (on gas) but am very happy so far with dmax (3000kg tow capacity) caravans and tow vehicles are a nightmare to choose but one thing i would say is pick the van FIRST then the tow vehicle

Sue - Steve Gazel · Veteran Member

Hi, I'm glad you asked this question again, We're in the same boat, only our vans very small but looking at an upgrade in the future. I've been tossing up between Nissan Navara, Toyota Hilux utes with canopy etc, Colorado gets a mention as well, now I hear the D Max is worth a good look at, so now I'm back scratching my head. The same with you guys is that it will also be used for the run around vehicle so economy is a factor. I'll stay watching and see what the verdict is , good luck and I hope we both end up with the right one.

Regards

Sue & Steve

justcruisin01 · Guru

Looking at this from a different point of view;

It sounds like your main concern is the running of a suitable size tug to & from work for a little while, why not wait untill work is finished & then buy the tug of choice, then just hit the road.

As you have not fully decided on the particular van as yet there maybe a waiting time for this so the two may fall into place at the appropiate time.

JC.

Wizardofoz · Guru

I have a petrol Toyota Landcruiser Sahara that is just 3 yo and has about 50,000 kms on the clock and in top condition, I am about to sell it and it may be a suitable tug for someone as I am going to buy a 5th wheeler, any ideas as to what it is worth, I thought maybe $65,000 to $70,000

-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Friday 7th of December 2012 11:32:56 AM

jimricho · Guru

Plendo wrote:
Thanks Jim, I like the Pajero, rented one for four days recently, and it performed well.
I was actually dissapointed when I discovered how the ball weight drops when your trailer weight exceeds 2500kg. Since then I have been observing rigs with Pajeros as tow vehicles and many appear to have too much weight on the ball, with the back of the vehicle sagging noticably.
I am lead to believe the correct ball weight is between 8 and 15% of trailer weight, thus I had effectively removed the Paj from my list.

I fitted after-market suspension (ARB) for that very reason. Also air bag helpers. As with a van of that size you'll be needing a weight distribution hitch (unless you go with the later model Discos) I don't think 180 kg ball weight will be a problem. I don't have a WDH as one is not needed with my rig (ATM 1350kg). If the rear of any tug is sagging it probably means that a WDH is needed or if there is one it is not set up properly.

For a 2900 ATM van you may prefer something with a little more "grunt" than the Pajero anyway.

I have heard Colorado owners complain about a poor turning circle but treat this information as second hand.

Jim

Nomad246 · Senior Member

deb-gary wrote:
~~ pick the van FIRST then the tow vehicle ~~

Hi Plendo,

Like you we were focused on a 21ft van, however when purchased it was a 23ft due to many considerations that led us to a heavier van. For us putting the "cart before the horse" proved to be the only way to go as it eliminated some vehicle choices that could have suited a 21ft van. In fact for us it made the vehicle field smaller and a far easier job to decide. I've also heard of van buyers having to trade-up their very new vehicles due to being under capacity.

Good advice Deb-Gary, settle on a van first.

Cheers

vanman · Senior Member

I went down a similar track recently as I wanted to update my 2002 Landcruiser TD. I needed a vehicle that would have a towing capacity of 3500kg as my Manhattan Crusader has a tare weight of 2500kg. The vehicle that I chose was a 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee and am delighted with it. The model Jeep that I have has the V6 3lt. Mercedes Diesel motor with 525nm of torque. The engine has more torque than the Landcruiser and uses less fuel. I have just travelled 475k's towing the van and have averaged 12.7lts per 100ks. this is with the aircon working as the temps. were in the high 30s. I also thought about the utes that are around now that will tow 3500kg but the Jeep is far more comfortable.

Hope this helps

Regards Chris

mr glassies · Guru

we have the latest colorado and love it .comfy tows gr8 our van is 2700 gks and towed like a bullet . yes its a bit bigger than the older model duno about the turning circle i own trucks so it dosnt worry me della prefers her getztuffed haha its a manual as well i like to do the driving .

down side and this i have found to be with all late model utes in this category till you get used to it first gear seams to low stalling and the such but iv talked to m8s with tritions and rangers and they all do the same so we have come to the conclusion it because they dont make power till rolling and all these new 4x4s have electric 4wd selector so you cant do the old low rang take of and sometimes they seam hard to pull out of 4wd but all seam to be the same.

on the trip out to nindy gully i was more than impressed with it following a m8 in an old protroll he did leave me behind but he was only towing a camp trailer and i was still concerned about the trucks ability but i got over that real quick it was like you didnd know it was there but were vigilant of it . even at one stage i looked down and realised i was doing 120 ks bit scary really when you think it was that comfortable you could creep up on speed like that.

something for all to think about is the new brake controller now correct me if im wrong this bits right hehe when you get a towbar the cars computer has to be told it has one fitted the controller we have works (the harder you push your foot down the more it brings on the trailer brakes keeps you straight in heavy braking and it does just that) i tried that out.

only other thing that really makes a few of us think is how hard these new trucks ar going to be to fix ( my sparky told me to get a diagnostic for it when we leave so at least we can tell the road assist what to bring ) and how long will they last i mean how can you squeeze that much power out of a 2.8 motor ???????????????? and i just dont mean the holden

well thats my thought for the day but then im a holden man cept if they made a subaru with the tow ratings id have one of them

dibs

deb-gary · Senior Member

deinitely would buy a subaru if it had the capacity by far the best cars i have ever sold as far as fixing these new trucks treat them like a woman have them serviced regular(the truck that is) and you will get a long life from them.nb did you know as i only found out the other day you can get caravan coverage for towing if you break down with the racq?it is part of your vehicle coverage at an extra cost.

signwilson · Senior Member

the only vehicle worth owning is 100 series landcruiser 4.2 turbo diesel I love mine pulls the van like its not there economical can get parts anywhere in australia for servicing. The ball weight is 350kg rated at 3,500kg. good solid chassis mine is 2004 model it replaced a pile of rubbish jeep grand cheerokee which because they have no chassis fall apart in the rear subframe and the after sales service is none existant. Parts for mine on failure during warranty took 3 months to get from over seas

Nomad246 · Senior Member

WizardofOz,

www.carsales.com.au

for the information you seek

Cheers

Plendo · Guru

Wow so much good advice, and the odd conflicting view. Thanks folks.

I can tell that people appreciate the positives of their current vehicle, and it is certainly difficult to compare, but hearing other peoples experiences certainly helps me to sort things out for myself.

Yes, I recognise that selecting the caravan first makes a stack of sense. BUT understanding the tow vehicle field first means that I can make the caravan selection knowing what I can tow it with, and also who I can sell it to when the time comes to upgrade. I mentioned earlier about having a high payload on the van, but if we choose wisely then we can do that, and have the van re plated to 2,490 atm when it comes time to sell, thus opening up the Prado market. So Yes I will order my van, before my tug, but I intend to do it knowingly.

The big dual cabs appear to be well liked by the people who use them, unfortunately there bulk does not work for me while I am still working, and just taking extended holidays. Maybe when we upgrade to go on the road full time.

Having driven both, I do not want to tow with a petrol again, the torque of the diesel just makes the job so much more comfortable.

Yes I agree it is a shame that Subaru do not make a decent sized tow vehicle, also a shame the Hyundai Santa Fe has such a low towing capacity, as both companies now make great vehicles.

I feel this market is going to change over the next couple of years, as the Colorado7, and the Ford TP6 wagon come on line, and mature as vehicles. I suspect Isuzu will do something similar with the Dmax. All of these vehicles will then provide a viable alternative to the ageing Toyota fleet at an affordable price.

Thanks again for your input. more welcomed.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Landcruiser 70 series.
Which one depends on the toys you want to carry

http://www.toyota.com.au/landcruiser-70-series#range

Cheers,
Peter

justcruisin01 · Guru

In the meantime we will just keep plodding along with the old HJ75, No computors or fancy gear & if it does stop I'll be able to find what is wrong with it.

JC.

leevin · Senior Member

Isuzu Dmax, 4 speed auto, extra leaf in rear springs, 130L "Long Ranger" fuel tank.
Removed tub & fitted Tradies back.
Towing 22'-6", 2.6t 'van.
Following coast from Brisvegas....currently in Port Lincoln.
Not a fault with Isuzu (or 'van).
Isuzu......bullet-proof!!

Sue - Steve Gazel · Veteran Member

Hi Leevin, I'm considering buying a D-Max, what year is yours? We'd be towing our small 13ft van so I would think that it wouldn't even know it's there. Have been researching and comparing and it ticks all the boxes for us. It's good to hear that it's faultless so fa, how many k's has it done?

Thanks for the comment.

Regards

Steve

leevin · Senior Member

G'day Steve,

Ours is a 2012 "run-out", before the new shape.

Purchased new in April, has done 17951kms.

Baz421 · Guru

Plendo

there is a solution that you can work to. You seem to have the knowledge as to what is needed and finding the solution is not hard.

The secret is to formulate a series of questions as to what you EXPECT of the vehicle; ie what do you want it to do FOR YOU.

Ask yourself things like this (in no particular order):

Do we need serious off road capability with manaul transmission with manually selected low ratio for hard going or is constant 4WD better; what is GVM/GCM of tow vehicle - will it take vehicle load plus caravan; can wife/partner drive manual transmission; will it take the ball weight (get a realistic idea from owners of similar vans when loaded NOT the manufacturer); economy - turbo diesel??? ( fuel is a major ongoing cost); what accessories do you need versus what you want (wants and needs analysis) eg uprated suspension/shocks are they necessary (it was for us in 79 series Cruiser Ute with GVM increased from 3300kg to 3700 kg).

Once you establish what you NEED go to desirable criteria.

It is important to write these ideas down and they either meet the criteria you set or they dont. Don't try to "keep up with anybody" but work towards what you need first and then what makes you feel safe and comfortable with a good rig. Just because you agree with MR XXX's view of say a Colorado (no offence to anyone just need an example name) DOESN'T mean it suits your needs, ie they may go off raod as we do say 60% of the time and really go bush OR vice versa.

Agree with JC in another post that your work issue should not be a hindrance to a good outcome for towing your van - ie could you wait awhile?

Rememeber you get what you pay for - cheaper isn't always the best. Work out if you travel say 30,000km per year what is the fuel cost at say $1.80 litre when one tug will give you say 15l to 100km and another gives you 20l to 100km. Fuel saving is obvious and this means more happy hours and more country bakeries to spend the $ on. Project this for say 5-10 years on the road (or whatever) and see the indicative fuel cost. So you can see that if you save say $2000 per year in fuel costs and you are on the road for say 10 years, it may be prudent to pay the $20000 extra for a tug up front (if you can of course - we all face the same constaints - well most of us ,,lol). All these figures are generalised but you get my drift I hope.

I hope this and the other advice you receive can be distilled into what suits you. Rememebr keep asking yourself during this whole process what do I want this tug to do for me, and DON'T impulse buy.

Cheers Baz

-- Edited by Baz421 on Wednesday 19th of December 2012 11:10:49 AM

-- Edited by Baz421 on Wednesday 19th of December 2012 11:28:22 AM

mr glassies · Guru

justcruisin01 wrote:
In the meantime we will just keep plodding along with the old HJ75, No computors or fancy gear & if it does stop I'll be able to find what is wrong with it.
JC.

amen to that jim scares the livin s*&t outa me if we ever break down

dibs

ken thomas · Guru

Hello
I have the new ranger 3.2lt T/D and tow a 22' van and 2800kg and it does it easily, good fuel economy and comfortable
The auto is the way to go, as it sorts itself out and if needed put into sports mode when hilly
Spare capacity is needed to keep the stress levels down

it beats the Prado hands down and is more comfortable as well
Ken

jack biggles · Senior Member

Theres alot of people out there these days with these new wiz bang 4 & 5 cylinder tugs, some of them with very impressive power specs & all that BUT, I really think some people are missing the point or just clearly have little understanding and experience regarding the dynamics of towing etc. I don't want to get into any biffo with people here, but if you are towing a biggish sized van - 2.5 tonnes upwards to 3, 3.5 tonnes, then you really need to look at the issues of the vehicles TARE weight, its payloads (the GVM & GCM) and get an idea of what you are going to need to tow safely, READ SAFELY! Theres no point having 60500 nm of torque & 45,000 kilowats of power if your vehicles overleaded weight wise. I have a Landcruiser 79 series, its had a GVM upgrade by Lovells, gives me a GVM of 3900kg. I have a box on it and its loaded up with goodies. The TARE weight of it is 2460kg (thats with all accessories) but no fuel, people or the crap that i carry. That gives me a MASSIVE PAYLOAD OF 1440kg. Loaded up with chairs, barbie, genny, chainsaw, rifles, fishing gear, torture equipment , poles, pipes, ropes, food, tools, spare parts, water in its water tank, and a couple of hundred litres of diesel and old jack (with the van on the ball (300kgs of downlaod), the trucks sitting around 3700kg. My van ALWAYS weighs less than this and considerable so, last time I weighed it full of water it was 3280kg.....there might be times it weighs 3300-3400 but that would be very rare. ANYWAY, the old tail NEVER wags the dog & my diesel V8 engine just chuggs away at 1600 to 2000 rpm & I bounce away in the cab with slim dusty blasting away on the CD player & you should see all the looks the chicks give me & Im over 90 in ages and less than 90 in speed. You need to think about payload, all the bits and pieces add up. If your looking at spending 50 to 60k on some of these wiz bang high output buzz boxes then you have enough to buy a real truck, ie: 70 series.