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Nomad246 · Senior Member

Nitrogen Filled Tyres

blaze · Guru

you will be able to race it now, next to useless in any thing but a race car
cheers
blaze

Nomad246 · Senior Member

blaze wrote:
you will be able to race it now, next to useless in any thing but a race car
cheers
blaze

Seeing I tow it like I stole it, go faster tyres will be useful

Sheba · Guru

My sister has been using it for years now, [she has a motorhome] and still says tyre pressure does not go down like it does over time with air. She's happy with it.

Cheers,

Sheba.

Nomad246 · Senior Member

Sheba wrote:
My sister has been using it for years now, [she has a motorhome] and still says tyre pressure does not go down like it does over time with air. She's happy with it.
Cheers,
Sheba.

Thanks for the informed view Sheba, could be why the manufacturer supplies it to their caravans that do not go past a servo as often as a car to get the tyres pumped up.

Cheers

Esperian · Senior Member

Hugely impractical, if you wish to go on country roads, especially when you meet with bogging in sandy dirt road, and need to deflate tires... In 4wd treks this often is a case. Cost would be astronomical, I guess. The same when getting tire puncture. Costly thing, even if it may be good in city life, though expensive too. A lot cheaper option is getting good electric 12 V tire pump, and regularly check tires for presure. When traveling a lot, this is a must.

-- Edited by Esperian on Thursday 15th of November 2012 11:57:48 AM

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Perhaps this RACQ info site gives all the answers to using (or not using) nitrogen in tyres.

http://www.racq.com.au/motoring/cars/car_advice/car_fact_sheets/nitrogen_for_tyres

Cheers - John

Nomad246 · Senior Member

Hi and thanks for your replies.

I was trying to get real feedback from users of the Nitrogen filled tyres. Sheba has given a very good answer citing her sister who actually uses it to combat tyre deflation.

I've read all the tech specs (RACV etc) prior to asking if anyone had real life experience with it.

It's on a caravan so the problem of "if you wish to go on country roads, especially when you meet with bogging in sandy dirt road, and need to deflate tires" will not occur.

If we still had our old offroad trailer (with spare tubes for punctures in the kit) nitrogen would be the last thing on my mind, however the new van has it and I'm still trying to decide if it's a good thing or just wasted effort. Seems the manufacturer Jayco thinks it's good to include it, even when Jayco won't see a red cent from future Nitrogen refills.

I'm forming an opinion that it's beneficial if it combats tyre deflation alone.

Our 4WD tyres will have standard compressed air for ease of use offroad when not towing the new van.

Thanks all for your comments, but it would still be good to get opinions from users of nitrogen filled van tyres, or users that have had it and strayed.

Cheers

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

It is always unhelpful to cite very personal experience in matters such as this - insufficient actual data to arrive at an informed decision.

However, I have now been towing my van for over 60,000km, 2,600kg tandem 23ft on-roader- for four years. I run 51psi in the tyres. I check the tyres EVERY Saturday morning (I am a control freak who CANNOT give up my practices of a lifetime biggrin )

In the four years I have had this van, I have only once had to put air into the road tyres - even the spare was only once down to 42psi after being on the back, unused, for all this time.

They had conventional air in them when I got them and I use conventional 'air' from my own 12v air compressor. SHHHH - but I haven't even had a puncture in the van's tyres. (Don't let that bloke Murphy know cry )

I also check the vehicle tyres at the same time as van tyres. Interestingly, I have had to put a few psi into these far more often than the van's tyres. Even then, they are usually only down less than 5psi at any time.

Again, insufficient data to arrive at an informed decision - just my experience. I think tyre construction these days is so good that losing air/punctures are generally very infrequent.

I really think nitrogen is an expensive overkill for the general traveller.

Cheers - John

Nomad246 · Senior Member

G'day Rockylizard,

My road vehicles and trailers have always had air, that is until I took delivery of the new caravan. Hence my experience is only air for road and offroad use. You cannot compare race or aircraft use with private use.

Like you I have done a bucket of K's with next to no probs with air in the tyres in road, offroad, rally and trailers.

I have conventional air compressors for shed and outback use. Easy answer for me is use the shed compressor to check the new tyres, however I've wondered "why is it so" and asked the question of other nitrogen users.

Thanks for your comments

Cheers

Santa · Guru

rockylizard wrote:

I really think nitrogen is an expensive overkill for the general traveller.
Cheers - John

Probably is John, but if you can afford it and can perceive some benefit, why not? smile

miroku12g · Senior Member

Nitrogen has been used in the N.T. by truck drivers [road trans, B doubles etc] since the late 70's early 80's, without a doubt they run cooler, at the time a truck drivers pressure gauge was a length of steel pipe, & a good thump on a tyre, dull thump ! pressure to low, high thump ! pressure good ?? [they are a little smarter today]
The tyre is just a vessel to hold air, it's the air that carries the weight, pressures should always be controlled by the weight.
Bob Jane T-Mart jumped on the band wagon some years ago here in Brisbane, just a good marketing tool to boost extra profits, thats not a "con" just good business sense for his outlets, my own thoughts are, one puncture & all is lost [in a dollar sense], just have a "good" pressure gauge, a tyre outlet that knows their stuff & all should be ok.
Just my opinion

Miroku12g

Nomad246 · Senior Member

Thanks for your comments Santa and Miroku12g,

Remembering my old man with a steel pipe checking the pressure ,,, lol

vk6tnc · Guru

I remember asking a real estate agent why he had red valve caps on a Hyundai Excel 10 years ago.....He stated lower fuel consumption, cooler tire temps and stable pressures over time.

Mind you if you want to run 78% nitrogen, keep using air

jimricho · Guru

vk6tnc wrote:
I remember asking a real estate agent why he had red valve caps on a Hyundai Excel 10 years ago.....He stated lower fuel consumption, cooler tire temps and stable pressures over time.

Mind you if you want to run 78% nitrogen, keep using air

biggrin biggrin

Nomad246 · Senior Member

vk6tnc wrote:
I remember asking a real estate agent why he had red valve caps on a Hyundai Excel 10 years ago.....He stated lower fuel consumption, cooler tire temps and stable pressures over time.

Mind you if you want to run 78% nitrogen, keep using air

What a stupid thing to do ,,, ask a real estate agent

Nomad246 · Senior Member

jimricho wrote:
vk6tnc wrote:
I remember asking a real estate agent why he had red valve caps on a Hyundai Excel 10 years ago.....He stated lower fuel consumption, cooler tire temps and stable pressures over time.

Mind you if you want to run 78% nitrogen, keep using air

Ahhhh .. the silent stupid type ,,, must be the real estate agent or a know it all

Nomad246 · Senior Member

Apart from the 2 cent idiots and the hecklers that think they are gods gift, I would still like to compare thoughts with people that actually use or have had and moved away from Nitrogen filled caravan tyres.

My original post

"Having just taken delivery of our new Jayco with Nitrogen filled tyres we wonder how other owners have found this in use.

Apart from the obvisious cost and availability issues has anyone got any comments?

Thanks"

My thanks to members like Sheba who has provided an informed and actual user view previously.

Kind Regards

vk6tnc · Guru

Nomad246 wrote:
Apart from the 2 cent idiots and the hecklers that think they are gods gift,

No further comment from me in case I have been included in the above group....
I really have no idea why you commented as you did regarding a Realestate agent, it could have been anyone, who had done a large number of kilometres with nitrogen in their tyres, and gave me their honest opinion.
He was trying to sell me a block of land, not nitrogen!!

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Oh well ... it all sounds like a lot of hot (cooler??) air to me biggrin biggrin biggrin

Cheers - John

Sheba · Guru

Thank you for the link, Pete. Read this a long time ago, but had forgotten a lot of it. Have saved the page for future reference now.

http://getnitrogen.org/why/

Cheers,

Sheba.

-- Edited by Sheba on Tuesday 20th of November 2012 11:06:29 PM

wasn_me · Guru

http://getnitrogen.org/why/

I have been a heavy equipment fitter for many years where nitrogen (an inert gas) is used in tyres to prevent explosions, in the case of fire. This post promted me to do a little research. There is a lot of information in the attached site. Amazing what can be learnt when we use our eyes & ears. There is an old saying " I will naught from any word I speak today" or I guess (nowadays) from any key board I use inadvertently.

Pete

Nomad246 · Senior Member

Hi Wasn_me,

Thanks for your input.

I also found that same site (along with an abundance of others) when doing my research. Seems most of the web info relates more to private cars than caravans. However I did find a report dated 2006 in caravan camping sales http://www.caravancampingsales.com.au/features/2006/the-case-for-using-nitrogen-20563 talking about caravan use. Extracted from the report :- "In a nutshell, there is very little wrong with using air. There is plenty of it around, it can be put into a tyre using a compressor or hand pump and its cheap. However that doesnt mean that there isnt room for improvement". Also stated was "While nitrogen as a gas has several benefits there are a few disadvantages, or more correctly, disincentives. These relate mainly to availability and cost."

This statement made me think in the opposite direction:- "And once the tyres have been filled with nitrogen it is important that only nitrogen is used to top up if necessary. Adding compressed air will dilute the percentage of nitrogen and reduce its benefits".

If topping with air dilutes the 100% Nitrogen fill (which is obvious) would not putting air on air increase the nitrogen % in a normal fill? Given that air fill is 78% / 21% / 1% of Nitrogen/Oxygen/Other, and the assumed 'bleed' is mostly the smaller particle, Oxygen, essentially you are replacing the 21% loss with a mix of 78% Nitrogen. Having the oxygen escape, you are refilling with more Nitrogen than the escaped oxygen. Given time you would end up with a high Nitrogen content, if not for tyre wear and replacement.

From the response to my post in GN it appears only 1 person (Sheba's sister) uses it for a particular advantage whilst non users have a pointed opinion why not to.

In all the research I've googled I can't say I've seen a good cross section of people that actually use Nitrogen and state their experience with advantage or otherwise.

The view I've formed agrees with :- "While nitrogen as a gas has several benefits there are a few disadvantages, or more correctly, disincentives. These relate mainly to availability and cost".

Surprisingly in a world of rapid change, we sit here at the later part of 2012 and the report I quote was "Published : Thursday, 20 April 2006"

It appears the GN's are interrupting their smart phone and Sat TV play time pumping up tyres with old technology compressed air.

Thanks for your input.

-- Edited by Nomad246 on Wednesday 21st of November 2012 07:11:26 AM

wasn_me · Guru

I don't know how you could get a 100% nitrogen fill to start with. You would have to evacuate the tyre before the fill, which isn't possoble as the tyre would be sucked off the bead.

I have a 1550 kg van on a single axle. Pressure variation with heat build up is a worry, as I start with 45 p.s.i. cold. This post has promted me to go & talk to the local Bob Jane dealer, (who will do nitrogen fills) re pressure stability. I believe pressure stability is a reason nitrogen is used in race cars.

Nomad246 your comment re nitrogen build up by adding air is interesting. I would probably only add 1 or 2 p.s.i. every 3-4 months, so a complete nitrogen fill would take a long time.

Pete

Nomad246 · Senior Member

wasn_me wrote:
I don't know how you could get a 100% nitrogen fill to start with. You would have to evacuate the tyre before the fill, which isn't possoble as the tyre would be sucked off the bead.
I have a 1550 kg van on a single axle. Pressure variation with heat build up is a worry, as I start with 45 p.s.i. cold. This post has promted me to go & talk to the local Bob Jane dealer, (who will do nitrogen fills) re pressure stability. I believe pressure stability is a reason nitrogen is used in race cars.
Nomad246 your comment re nitrogen build up by adding air is interesting. I would probably only add 1 or 2 p.s.i. every 3-4 months, so a complete nitrogen fill would take a long time.
Pete

Pete,

Agree with 100% not possible, actually the 'spurts' talk about 95-98% .

Yes air replacement would never be practical as the tyre would be replaced (or punctured) before the % increase really mattered.

Your situation with a single axle, may find benefit with safety?

As I stated previously, Jayco are doing it, so 'why is it so'. Jayco don't get anything from it in the longrun.

In all I was fishing for actual users of Nitrogen for real life experience, as I've read all the writeups till my eyes have spun.

Cheers

bowlerbear · Senior Member

I know this is not quite what you asked but I have had nitrogen in my car tyres for about 7 years. It cost me about $7.50 / tyre and they bled the air out first then refilled with the nitrogen. I have had one flat tyre in that time and when discovered was only a bit of the way down, not all the way. I go to Jaxx tyres and they check them for free. I appreciate that if outback where nitrogen is not available, or if I have to repair/refill along the way it would be air that went into them. I have the spare tyre of my camper trailer with nitrogen in it and when I get around to being able to reverse well I will get the other wheels on my CT done as well.

Nomad246 · Senior Member

Hi BowlerBear,

Thanks for your valuable input. Sounds like you're having a good run and happy with nitrogen.

Thanks for the comments

Cheers

mr glassies · Guru

i asked our local tyre guy about this ages ago his reply was youd be beter of buying a bottle of beam and drinking it . what it gives you is next to nothing
i recon it just a gimick .

gee i mite fit into those 2 cent idiot and heckler now
because im to old to be gods gift .

dibs

(nscu)

Santa · Guru

wasn_me wrote:
http://getnitrogen.org/why/
I have been a heavy equipment fitter for many years where nitrogen (an inert gas) is used in tyres to prevent explosions, in the case of fire. This post promted me to do a little research. There is a lot of information in the attached site. Amazing what can be learnt when we use our eyes & ears. There is an old saying " I will naught from any word I speak today" or I guess (nowadays) from any key board I use inadvertently.
Pete

Yep, the reason nitrogen is used in aircraft tyres is fire prevention.

Santa · Guru

Altitude not the problem, tyres often burst when landing, combine this with red hot brakes and the problem is very real. smile

Aircraft tires also include heat fuses, designed to melt at a certain temperature. Tires often overheat if maximum braking is applied during an aborted takeoff or an emergency landing. The fuses provide a safer failure mode that prevents tire explosions by deflating in a controlled manner, thus minimizing damage to aircraft and objects in the surrounding environment.

The requirement that an inert gas, such as nitrogen, be used instead of air for inflation of tires on certain transport category airplanes was prompted by at least three cases in which the oxygen in air-filled tires combined with volatile gases given off by a severely overheated tire and exploded upon reaching autoignition temperature. The use of an inert gas for tire inflation will eliminate the possibility of a tire explosion.^[36]

-- Edited by Santa on Thursday 27th of December 2012 10:36:07 PM