Strong, Independent Women

the rocket · Guru

Strong, Independent Women

Cruising Granny · Guru

We share this site and forum with people from all walks of life who have chosen to travel, even women.

Whether they travel with campervan, camper trailer, caravan or motorhome, they all face the challenges before them.

Why is it when women express their desire to do this, or their achievements in travel ventures, or life, it's seen as something out of the ordinary, or a challenge to the males of the species?

Some of us have managed life on our own for a long time. When there's no one but ourselves to depend on, what outcome would you expect?

Maybe you could all share your opinions, expectations and experiences.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

I'm not sure if I have missed something but for what it's worth, I read and enjoy opinions and comments from both men and women, single or married and maybe even other. That's why I like this forum, I am always learning something. I look at all posts but only comment on those I know something about the topic or a bit of fun. I always value and enjoy your comments too CG. Keep up the good work my GN friend.

fireheart · Senior Member

CG, I understand where you are coming from to a point. I think in our society it is still unusual for women to take of on their own and to be great at it. Perceptions are changing though. And now I have re-read that it does not sound right either. Women have been doing extraordinary things and achievments for centuries, however most of what women do on their own and achieve are still seen basically as male domains. I also think that sometimes we are our own worse enemies, it would be wonderful to be able to acknowledge another person for their achievments no matter what the gender.
I have 3 wonderful grown sons who are nothing but supportive of me undertaking my journey as their late father was of all that I was able to achieve during our married life. I have to admit as far as mechanical things, and stuff like that I left to him, up until now I did not want to know or have to know about that sort of stuff, so maybe a bad thing on my behalf. I loved being a home maker and doing the female things in life. I know that is no longer PC either, however that is the way it was. I also have noticed and worked with women who are trying to achieve greatness and they either become masculine in their ways and try to act like a man or they use the little girl thing and become all helpless and use that to get ahead. It would be so wonderful in a perfect world if we could just achieve for the fact we wish to and acknowledge ourselves for that.
I have only had two people question my decisions thus far, and they have been of an older age group, one male and one female and both of them had the same statement. You cannot leave to do that without having a home. It is not safe out there. I explain that I will have my home with me and I could be hit by a bus tomorrow down the street, so I will let them have their opinions and do my thing anyways.
As the saying goes behind every successful man is a good woman, and I think that is fairly true, and we just need to stand in our own glory. I would hope that when I get out on the road that if I need some extra help with something I know nothing about there will be a nice gentleman there willing to help or even a wonderful woman.

"Sisters are doing it for themselves."

I hope I have made some sense, I can ramble at times, I respect women for doing what they want, and love the men in the world that share that with them.

Remember my experiences and thoughts only, and we all come from different backgrounds that may sometimes cloud our vision of the present or future.

Sharon.

Cruising Granny · Guru

Good girl!!!
Nothing in particular prompted me to ask the question. I only asked the question because it happens that I see women get challenged from time to time, even on GN.
I got the impression long ago there are blokes out there who feel the need to challenge, discredit and defame women, especially independent, strong, capable women, just because.
I'm not very "fenimine" or "girlie", but I had to be a home maker, bread winner and all round dog's body.
I can mow the lawns, change the light globes and put the rubbish out, to name a few. I'm still a tomboy and prefer to be doing other things than shopping or going to the beauty parlour to be pampered.
There are women out there driving trucks and heavy machinery, and doing previously male-dominated roles. Some keep their femininity, while others tend to go blokey, not gay.
It still takes all kinds.

Happywanderer · The Master

I know where you are coming from CG. Must admit I feel chuffed and get a kick out of it when someone says they admire my strength, courage etc etc., doing so much on my own. That confirms I am on the right track, just as I admire some men who have lost their loving partners and are getting out there making new tracks, a fresh start in life.
Have to say, of my 63, nearly 64 years I have only spent a total of 13 married. Spent the rest on my own and most of it as a solo mum.
In that time I have owned two businesses, moved countries and started new careers.
I sometimes wonder how I did it and now hope I have plenty of more time to try lots of new things I still want to experience.
When we have to do something, we just find the strength to overcome any hurdles.

barina · Guru

I so agree FH and Gc.....I am considered weird as I have lived on my own for a long time. had a try at cohabitation...just did not work for lots of reasons, so I alone decided I am happy, alone but I am certainly not lonely. My adult kids and brothers are supportive of my plans to travel. However some people have said "how can you do that on your own, wont you be lonely, it is a lot for you to take on".......so I just say well I am going to get as much info and advice as i can and I am independent and sensible so I am not worried..

I so appreciate the advice and encouragement I have had from the short time I have been here, and am feeling more confident than ever that my trip will be everything I want it will be.

look forward to meeting lots more nomads of both persuasions......

Rip and Rosie · Guru

I had wanted to ''go caravanning'' for many years, but someone always said it would be too much for a woman alone. So I continued to travel, alone and with others staying in tents, motels and B&Bs.

As I was working fulltime, it wasn't too bad I suppose.

Then I met another woman who was managing her van alone (well, with her poodle helping).

I didn't get her name, but will be always grateful for her positive example. I remember she had travelled with her husband, who had died. She said she sat at home for 6 months, and "waited to die as well" until she bought an old poptop and took off.

I have always been a strong independent woman and now can't imagine why I let the 'nay-sayers' influence me...... not any more.

Here's to more positive women role models !

Rosie

kandagal · Guru

When I was younger I actually drove the large dump trucks in a mine on Groote Eylandt. But now I am older I am happy for my chauffeur to handle all the mechanical/electrical/technical things to do with our M/H. I seem to asssume 'that's not my department' but it is probably just a cop out for me. I guess I could become more independant if need be. Cheers

animalcarer · Senior Member

Yep I have to agree with you wholeheartedly on this.

I am not a shrinking violet, and I can be quite noisy, have had to be the Little General often, like you I have been the solo mum for a few years until I met Howie, to be quite honest I actually enjoyed it very much. But thirty years ago one was labelled agressive, if you spoke your mind. Actually it wasnt men that gave me a hard time, it was the prissy type married women. I could yak on about a few stories, I even had a local copper come around at 6am in the morning to see if I was OK. He certainlly got his marching orders lol

And people wonder why woman on their own get the itsss, when people in twos, say how brave you are etc. Just because one is a woman does not mean you are a weak nimble minded person, who is expected to take whatever is dished out. And I dont believe it is a question of being brave , its a statement of saying I HAVE NO FEAR, Bring it on .

This is just my intepretation , my life experience, I have NEVER fitted the dutiful mould (glory box) type. I remember years ago I must have been about 12, my friends mother gave me a pce of wedding cake, and said if you put this under your pillow, you will dream about who you are going to marry.

I just ate the bloody cake when I got home, What The ?

We are all different, Domestic stuff bores me to death. I would rather read a book, or start a pressure group, life for me is to short to stuff a mushroom.

So Cruising Granny you are spot on. Lets bring it on Cheers

Beth54 · Guru

I really admire you strong, independant women, but I wouldn't say I'm one of them.

Strong? I'm a weakling, but I do have fairly strong opinions. Independant? I live alone, but I depend on my family and friends a lot.

But I too get those comments about being 'brave' to travel on my own...which kind of irks me. No-one says that to men travelling alone! I don't think of it as brave at all! But the alternative to travelling alone...staying home to wither, or hooking up with someone just because someone thinks I should... No thanks!

When I was young, I had no thought other than getting married and having kids. These days I tell all the young women I know that, first and foremost, they need to have a career and earn their own money before anything else.

Cruising Granny · Guru

Always bear in mind that strength and confidence don't equate to arrogance and rudeness.

Rip and Rosie · Guru

I agree with you granny, there's a point you get to which is within yourself, and you don't have to make a loud noise.

I think that no one telling you that you are weak, or "can''t", can make that true.

Same as no one telling you that you are strong can make that so either.

It either is, or is not so.

The most important conversation you ever have is within yourself.

johnq · Guru

There must be at least two Australias because none of the women in my extended family up until some of the girls born post WW2 were ever anything but competent in all walks of life. A couple of my sisters had the easy life - we lived in a city for a while and that along with the all-electric kitchen and other social changes coincided with more girls being treated as princesses. Maybe a PhD could look into that.

Apart from the chores that required brute strength, the women in country areas and non-metropolitan cities were indistinguishable from the men in the roles and responsibilities they shouldered and had children as well, often without even the midwife with her basic plumbing tools to help. It had to be that way in the country, but I also remember the independence of women in the towns too.

In her 90s my mother can still touch her toes with her palms, she is just as good a shot (those pesky Indian Mynahs are saved only by some Nanny laws) and she took long trips in her favourite cars, Falcons, for years. She attributes her fitness to her willingness to get out and about, having raised five children mostly by herself (menfolk often worked a distance away) and numerous grand- and great-grandchildren. We know that women thought nothing of catching the horse, rigging the sulky and taking the infants as well to visit far flung neighbours and to render assistance to others.

Maybe a certain movement has found it necessary to re-write history and the past expectations of women to build the image of women as victims. There are many bureaucrats whose jobs and careers depend on maintaining that image. But and it is a very big BUT, none of the women I recall from my childhood and growing up were anything like the cowering, fainting, oppressed little buttercups women of the 40s, 50,s and beyond are supposed to have been. Or at least as they are falsely described by the gender studies academics and affirmative action bureaucrats who advise on government policy on women. That is what comes of letting middle class women hijack the women's movement I guess.

What is particularly unfortunate is that the re-writing of social history (mainly by sociologists to fit their own agendas!) to render women as the eternal victims has obliterated the contributions of the thousands of women pioneers and the practical equality that never needed to be spoken about but existed in most of Australia. Maybe in the ratified atmosphere of middle class academia and the public bureaucracies the truth is always a relative thing.

None of this questions the real and welcome advances that have been made in some areas such as employment, but strong, independent women were always common in the Australia I remember and their contribution should be acknowledged and celebrated. Of course it could also be argued that men have gone somewhat limp, unadventurous and dependent in recent times -now that around 90% of Australians live the urban life. Perhaps that is where the truth lies, that most men and women no longer have the red blood and get up and go of the more resilient and practical men and women of yesteryear.

Cruising Granny · Guru

So where did it all change? When did women become princesses?
What was once a way of life is now some cultural crevass.
Maybe it's gone too far the other way. From the strong women of the 30's, 40's and 50's, to the spoiled women with the gadgets to avoid breaking a nail. Now they have to assert themselves in the corporate world with a PhD in something to prove they are strong enough to be "equal".
I'm still house-proud and domestic, ove growing things, usually organised, and I like to keep busy at something except reading a book.
Maybe the people in my past life have left me wondering what my place is sometimes.

golivers travels · Guru

In think I was very fortunate, being an only child, and a female, I had a father who encouraged me to follow my dreams. When I was at High School back in the late 60's early 70's I wanted to persue maths and sciences, my school did not want me to do this as there were no females in the classes. With encouragement from my father I followed my path. Yes I was the only female in my physics and chem class but I did it and passed, can I say with little help from my teachers who did not want me in their classes! With Mths, there were only a couple of females but with determination we passed well. Also I feel that as a female I had to prove myself 10 times over in my career to move forward. Thankfully things are changing and females are now being recognised for their knowledge and skills. Sorry if this seems a bit over the top Glenda

johnq · Guru

Hi CG, thanks for not thinking I was detracting from anything you said prior.

I remember as you must, people having to be resilient and make do. We all mucked in. There was no other option.

Mum used to bundle us into the ute, "Keep that tonneau cover mainly done up to stop your sisters falling out" and whizz us off to the beach. Took hours to get there but we were less 'ratty' for days for the experience.

She had to sort us out and get dad home when he fell down the burning pit of a large gum tree (days after the fire). Fortunately she was a trained nurse, the youngest ever to reach Matron at a large country hospital. The family was miles away on the property when it happened. I can still see the awful burns.

If the well known Sister Kelly (polio) is taken into account, while it is true that she was exceptional in her work and life, she was nonetheless only representative of the dedication and service of hundreds of women who saw nursing as a vocation. The same applied in education, music, raising families and many other fields. Equally the men of the time are largely forgotten for their sacrifice and service, excepting for war service that is.

I fear we have lost the history of our parents, grandparents and forebears. Or maybe it is buried and should be resurrected. Hard to do where the victim industries jealously vie for attention and journalists rely on press releases instead of wearing out their shoe leather to see for themselves.

I am delighted but unsurprised to see women out and about. These are normal women, normal humans. There are normal men too. I hope to join you all. Those who see it differently know no better.

CG, if you are wondering what your place is, many of us are in the same boat. That calls for a fire, some red and a lot of time :) Have a look at this though, Jane Fonda speaking on the third Age,

http://www.ted.com/talks/jane_fonda_life_s_third_act.html

fireheart · Senior Member

CG, I know where you are coming from about wondering where we are and what our place is, I think we all go through times in our lives when a re-adjustment is needed and we are left wondering. Heck, I have just spent three years doing just that, and now it is time for me to find out, and actually to find out all I am too, crikey I hope I like me when I do find out. I think we go through life whether male or female, growing and at times struggling with who we are, where are going and what is it all about. I am glad that we have left behind the 80 and 90's when we were all taught we had to save the world, and now it is about taking life on a daily basis and doing the best we can with what we have.

We all have our own stengths and weaknesses wether that is as an outdoorsy person or an a more indoor person. I love being a woman, and love having doors opened for me and being spoilt, this doesn't happen now, however during my marriage while enjoying those things I also considered that I was a strong independant person, that kept the home fires burning so to speak while my husband was away overseas or interstate working. I think we do what we have to, to survive and yes there are some of our gender that use the princess style to do what they think will get them through. I cannot stand that either but hey it is their life.

Granny you are fine just the way you are and offer so much, so I believe you are exactly where you need to be at this time, giving all of us newbies your wisdom of life on the road so keep hanging about. You have so many strengths and talents from what I have read on here and following your posts.

Sharon.

-- Edited by fireheart on Thursday 22nd of March 2012 09:55:59 AM

Rip and Rosie · Guru

yes but.....
we don''t have to go too far back to remember single women being unable to get a loan at a bank, so home ownership was near to impossible. Even with a good job women earned less than men doing the same thing.

As Glenda said above, girls were educated differently, unless some one stood up for them. We got less sciences, more typing, cooking -domestic sciences; more girls left school early - she'll only get married why waste the education.

I remember just 20 years ago, going to a doctor in a country town, the receptionist asked me for my husband's name. When I declined to give it, she asked for my father's name. When I asked why she wanted such names, she told me all women had their medical records filed under their husband or father's names..................I was so angry I walked out and went elsewhere.

Rosie

Happywanderer · The Master

I got my first home mortgage in 1970 as a working solo mum. This was in NZ. A brand new 2 bd room unit which cost me $8,800. I was 22 years of age.
They didn't have parenting pensions back in those days.

PeterS · Senior Member

there have always been strong independant women around that demanded and deserved as much or even more recognition than their male counterparts. One of my previous clients was a Army Major (nursing) in w/war 2 and earned considerable decorations, she marched in the Anzac march every year and was so often told to wear her husbands decorations on the other side. Man did she give them what for smile . She also had a gold card in her own right and I pity anyone that dared to say she only had it because of her husbands service ! AND GOOD ON HER.

jonathan · Senior Member

.. I'd like to see 2 strong independant women fight over me ..

(leave me alone .. ok ? .. I'm happily dreaming !!)

the rocket · Guru

johnq wrote:
Rip and Rosie wrote:
yes but.....
we don''t have to go too far back to remember single women being unable to get a loan at a bank, so home ownership was near to impossible. Even with a good job women earned less than men doing the same thing.

As Glenda said above, girls were educated differently, unless some one stood up for them. We got less sciences, more typing, cooking -domestic sciences; more girls left school early - she'll only get married why waste the education.

I remember just 20 years ago, going to a doctor in a country town, the receptionist asked me for my husband's name. When I declined to give it, she asked for my father's name. When I asked why she wanted such names, she told me all women had their medical records filed under their husband or father's names..................I was so angry I walked out and went elsewhere.

Rosie
In the mid Seventies I was refused a very moderate housing loan by the Commonwealth Bank. I was in a permanent job, already getting above average earnings and I had a good deposit. I had even taken out and repaid a personal loan I didn't need to get a reference with the bank. That was an expectation and I had always paid cash through saving for what I needed.
The bank manager told me that they had to set limits and a married person was more stable. I said, "What? If I was married with kids I would get the loan?" Answer was "Yes".
I never saw it as discrimination. It was just the bank's sense of community obligation, trying to give families the first bite of the cherry - reinforced by the policy of the government of the day.
That is not to say that unfairness didn't or doesn't exist. It is simply to put things in contex
it was difficult back then to get a loan. both of us were working full time, but only hubbys wages were taken into account. We were refused the home loan. rocket n strop

-- Edited by the rocket on Thursday 22nd of March 2012 07:00:47 PM

johnq · Guru

Cruising Granny wrote:
I like Jane Fonda's address. I can relate.
As there are many people, there are many perspectives and opinions.
The responses have all be interesting.
It just goes to prove you don't have to be tough to be strong.

Oh, Jon, keep dreaming mate. What would you do if they did?

The other problem is that somehow it is not politically correct in 'modern' times to applaud women (or men) for the strenghts inherent to their sex. Equality is (wrongly) being interpreted as equality of outcome and by people who know better but it suits their purposes.

To take an example, my 90 yr old mother has always been -as have the women in our family before her- the glue that holds the family together. They build, repair and maintain the communication links, sometimes 'bothering' the odd uncle or whatever who has withdrawn a bit over time into taking a interest. Otherwise the said uncle might live reclusively and probably live and die from poor nutrition and lack of contact with helping people and professionals. That is how people die alone and sometimes too early.

That (predominately) womanly skill and role alone is one of the immeasurable benefits of an extended family and serves the psychological and physical welfare of its members. You see it applied some days on this forum.

It is also of crucial interest to people who live alone, that they have some family or contacts who care.

So CG I'd agree that women's strength (and contribution) is not measured solely or even majorly through job, career or other economic pastimes but through a broad range of other factors, many of which are seen as too 'soft' and 'feminine' for these politically correct times. But that doesn't reduce their relevance, value and contribution, and the absence of such input and the destruction of family and extended family have been contributors (I believe) to such nasties as youth riots in the UK.

Vive la difference anyway.

-- Edited by johnq on Thursday 22nd of March 2012 08:32:24 PM

-- Edited by johnq on Thursday 22nd of March 2012 08:35:15 PM

johnq · Guru

Rip and Rosie wrote:
yes but.....
we don''t have to go too far back to remember single women being unable to get a loan at a bank, so home ownership was near to impossible. Even with a good job women earned less than men doing the same thing.

As Glenda said above, girls were educated differently, unless some one stood up for them. We got less sciences, more typing, cooking -domestic sciences; more girls left school early - she'll only get married why waste the education.

I remember just 20 years ago, going to a doctor in a country town, the receptionist asked me for my husband's name. When I declined to give it, she asked for my father's name. When I asked why she wanted such names, she told me all women had their medical records filed under their husband or father's names..................I was so angry I walked out and went elsewhere.

Rosie

In the mid Seventies I was refused a very moderate housing loan by the Commonwealth Bank. I was in a permanent job, already getting above average earnings and I had a good deposit. I had even taken out and repaid a personal loan I didn't need to get a reference with the bank. That was an expectation and I had always paid cash through saving for what I needed.

The bank manager told me that they had to set limits and a married person was more stable. I said, "What? If I was married with kids I would get the loan?" Answer was "Yes".

I never saw it as discrimination. It was just the bank's sense of community obligation, trying to give families the first bite of the cherry - reinforced by the policy of the government of the day.

That is not to say that unfairness didn't or doesn't exist. It is simply to put things in context.

Happywanderer · The Master

jonathan wrote:

.. I'd like to see 2 strong independant women fight over me ..
(leave me alone .. ok ? .. I'm happily dreaming !!)

I'm trying to picture it too Jonathan. lol

jonathan · Senior Member

.. sometimes reality sucks ! .. heh !

johnq · Guru

jonathan wrote:

.. sometimes reality sucks ! .. heh !

You need to be a bad boy.

Tatts, motorbike and suggest that your lady might get herself a chard while she fetches your bourbon and coke. "Did you remember my ice darl?"

animalcarer · Senior Member

Nothing wrong with being noisy

johnq · Guru

CG

There are two layers to your question as I see it: first, there are the sometimes amusing and sometimes irritating social consequences of being female or male. It is as annoying for men to be regarded as a likely pervert for reading a book alone in a park as it is for women to be asked how they cope when traveling by themselves -although there is always some 'crossing over' and men are just as likely to be asked the same question and possibly with suspicion.

Even these simple examples should confirm that stereotyping is more likely directed at single status not gender in a world that is preoccupied at with coupling (even for gays now LOL).

As an aside, some men might argue that women are more responsible for that emphasis on coupling, hence the complaints about men lacking 'commitment'. :)

The second layer has more serious implications, which is how people who live the single life manage to retain their independence, health and welfare and hopefully their sense of humour, especially where they are grey nomads.