What could these have been used for please

Vic · Guru

What could these have been used for please

_wombat_ · Master (of Mischief)

maybe used to run a tv

03_troopy · Guru

The first item (projecta battery charger) looks like one of the old common bi-metallic strip regulated battery chargers. Hard to tell, but they all seemed to be in that type of enclosure. The other two items are possibly only modified sine wave inverters, but again difficult to tell. Usually if it doesn't say "pure sine wave" on the inverter, then it is most likely only modified sine wave. If you can see any model numbers or part numbers on the items try google'ing them along with key words like brandname or inverter or such.

dorian · Guru

A 1700W inverter is much too big to run only a TV. You could do that with a much smaller and cheaper unit. Depending on the size and type (CRT / LCD/ plasma), a TV might require 100W - 400W.

I'd say the inverter would be suitable for some types of whitegoods, eg refrigerator, microwave, or small cooker.

yeoeleven · Guru

Vic,

I have seen a similar set up in a caravan and the inverter made available 240 volts for any use via a normal 240 volt connection. It wasn't just used for one item say the TV it was also available for other uses simultaneously as in laptop.

The battery charger is clearly used for that purpose and the surplus power going through the inverter to the AC socket when AC isn't available.

Just my thoughts on the matter, the last photo suggests that it opens to reveal some override or failsafe fuseable connection.

John

oldtrack123 · Guru

Hi Vic

I would think the Get plus is two outlets supplied by the inverter.

The inverter should have a 12v disconect switch as it has a standby current which will flatten the battery over time if it is not on constant charge[even though you are not using it for 240v]

More details ,model etc may allow finding what THAT particular inverter's standby current & efficiency is

There Is no indication of the output quality , PURE sine wave , or MSW[Modified SQUARE wave]

This can determine what may be safely used from it.

Used at it's Continuous output it will draw around 142amps

You would need a pretty large battery bank to supply THAT for any length of time

It is ok for smaller loads as it only draws what the load requires PLUS about another 10% for efficiency losses

The charger, I expect is only 2700milliamps [2.7amps]

It will take a long time to charge any decent sized battery& certainly is mismatched for the correct battery /inverter set up if making constant use of 240v

Finally ALWAYS remember the 240v from an inverter can be just as deadly as from the mains

You have no safety protection [safetey switch]

The safety recommendation is to only have ONE class one device connected AT ANY TIME

A class one devise ALWAYS has a three pin plug

Peter

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Tuesday 27th of December 2011 03:10:47 PM

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Tuesday 27th of December 2011 03:14:26 PM

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Tuesday 27th of December 2011 03:19:58 PM

dorian · Guru

The middle inverter is a 1700W unit, so its maximum current draw, assuming 100% efficiency from a 12V source, would be around 140A.

The "get-power" device appears to be a smaller inverter, assuming that's a red and black cable pair at the terminal block at the RHS.

Happywanderer · The Master

Vic, it looks like the same set up as I have. The first photo would be the charger to recharge your inhouse battery by plugging into mains power. The inverter would be attached to the inhouse battery and the get power would be 2 power outlets coming from the inverter. I have two power outlets attached to the wall.
As far as wattage goes, I know nuttin.
The charger in the first photo, I don't have one yet but S in L is going to put one in with wiring to the mains plugs so it will automatically charge the in house battery as soon as I plug into the mains and without having to do anything else.

Happywanderer · The Master

Forgot to mention my inverter is only a 300 w. and I use it for all my electrical items e.g. Laptop, phone, camera, TV when I get one. So a 1700 would be for much larger items, maybe they ran a washing machine or perhaps a sewing machine.

Vic · Guru

Thanks for the feedback everyone, the campervan is a 1997 model so not sure how old those items are.

Will get some more details and let you know. There is a safety cut out switch near the charger, not sure what that covers though.

I am also wondering if the vehicle charges the battery or keeps the 12/240V fridge working while it is driving along, do you know how I can check that out (other than the obvious of having the fridge on, more if the battery is charging on the move).

Thanks

Vic

-- Edited by Vic on Tuesday 27th of December 2011 03:52:28 PM

oldtrack123 · Guru

Hi Vic

Ok you do have the required overload circuit breaker & RCD for the MAINS wiring

How many power points do you have ,other than those two with the Get Plus

I would still believe the two on the Get PLUS are connected only to the inverter,& that the inverter does not supply ANY other fixed power outlets

BUT what does concerm me, is that wiring I see going into the GetPus 240v from the inverter. ???

Is the inverter readily accessable to enable switching OFF in an emergency???

The question of the fridge recieving 12v & the battery recieving a charge,when travelling is an unkown , only testing can confirm.

Then there is still be question of heavy enough cables to maintain correct voltage @ the fridge

Peter

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Tuesday 27th of December 2011 04:14:43 PM

dorian · Guru

The "get-power" (not Get PLUS) device is too long to be just a couple of power points in a box. Moreover, a dual GPO could quite comfortably be accommodated in a cheap plastic box rather than an expensive metal one. Still another clue that the device may be an inverter is that there appears to be an exposed terminal block at the RHS. A 240VAC input would not be exposed to the end user. Instead it would be hard-wired internally.

Happywanderer · The Master

So the fridge doesn't run on gas Vic?? Maybe thats why the inverter is 1700w. It runs the fridge while the van is camped.
Yes the inhouse battery should be charging while you are driving, that is how mine charges. And you put the fridge on power while you are driving as well.
Does your own van have something similiar?

oldtrack123 · Guru

dorian wrote:
The middle inverter is a 1700W unit, so its maximum current draw, assuming 100% efficiency from a 12V source, would be around 140A.

The "get-power" device appears to be a smaller inverter, assuming that's a red and black cable pair at the terminal block at the RHS.

Hi Dorian

Yes ,On looking again that does appear to be a terminal block so it probably is ANOTHER SMALL inverter.

I not sure Why I referred to it as Get plus blankstare

So the next question is what is the large 1700watt inverter feeding & how is it wired for safety

IS IT LEGAL & in accordance with the regulations

IF it is hard wired to multiple fixed outlets it should have its own RCD protection, That in addition to the incoming mains RCD. for the charger & what ever other mains devices may be connected!!

Or is it correctly wired via a "CHANGE OVER "switch ,If so where is that switch?

The logical place is the main board near the RCD & OLCB

Hi Vic

With the battery & mains power disconnected ,you may be able to visually track just what is connected to what & advice further

Depending on type, having TWO seperate inverters can allow very high voltages in the van [480v possible between certain points]

Some pretty dodgy thing have been done by incompetents &/or electricians who are not aware of the SPECIFIC requirements for vans etc AS covered in AS /NZS 3001:2008

It may be advisable for you to have the whole system checked out by a competent qualified electrician who is FULLY conversant with the ABOVE standard

Not your average domestic electrician!!

Inverters have the potential to kill if not installed to the Standards Reqs

Peter

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Tuesday 27th of December 2011 06:18:24 PM

dorian · Guru

oldtrack123, I'm having difficulty understanding what you mean by "dodgy" electrical work.

What do the Australian Standard Wiring Rules have to say about having two inverters connected to the same battery in the same vehicle? How would a competent electrician wire such a system in order to avert your "480V possible between certain points" disaster scenario?

oldtrack123 · Guru

dorian wrote:
oldtrack123, I'm having difficulty understanding what you mean by "dodgy" electrical work.

What do the Australian Standard Wiring Rules have to say about having two inverters connected to the same battery in the same vehicle? How would a competent electrician wire such a system in order to avert your "480V possible between certain points" disaster scenario?

Hi Dorian

The standards do not say anything about having two inverters connected to the same battery & that was not the point of my post.

If they are old, non isolated inverters is when the problems can occur ,as may be the case in question

If you are electrically qualified ,I am sure you will see that possabilty when you have a common point in the circuit ,OR if a common point develops[ this would be a rare possabilty but not impossible]

The shonky work refers to much of what is done by electricians who do not know the requirements of AS 3001 or do not understand them

Typically,

[1] the permanent wiring of inverters to van 240v system without a operational RCD

[2]The fitting of step down transformers from240v to 110v to use existing systems in imported vans ETC ,against the rules,& again with no RCD protection

[3] Incorrect wiring of inverter /chargers such as Victron & Exantrex, resulting in near electrocution &shocks.

[4] Incorrect change over switches & wiring

[5] the full reqirements of earthing not carried out

[6] often general quality of workmanship

[7]PLUS lots of incorrect advice.

Like ground stakes etc with generators & vans

Statements like, it is an appliance because it connected by a plug in cable

Making & supplying illegal 10 to 15amp leads /adapters

Statements like it is perfectly safe because it [inverter or generator] is an isolated supply

And many others

All have happenned many times & probably those known are only the tip of the iceberg

My advice to ALL seeking information or requiring work to be done on their van, motor home, camper etc electrics is to ensure the electrician is aware of & fully understands the requirements of As3001:2008

Ask him the question, if he looks blank look elsewhere

Peter

Vic · Guru

I am not techo minded so please bear with me. Here are some pic's of the various items, starting with the general van battery, separate posts for each item so to avoid confusion;

CAMPERVAN MOTOR BATTERY;

-- Edited by Vic on Tuesday 27th of December 2011 10:09:03 PM

Vic · Guru

BATTERY CHARGER ON TOP BENCH: This charger needs to be plugged into the nearby household type double GPO off 240V when on power to charge the auxillary battery (I assume).

There are three leads for only a double GPO, so need to be plugged according to item being used for Battery Charger (mounted on bench near double GPO and safety switch), Fridge (12/240V) and Microwave (both mounted under same bench).

Note: There are two double household type GPO's at the rear of the van, one near subject bench and one opposite. There is no gas to fridge, only gas stove opposite.

-- Edited by Vic on Tuesday 27th of December 2011 10:18:58 PM

Vic · Guru

GET POWER METAL BOX; Appears to have leads running direct to auxillary battery;

-- Edited by Vic on Tuesday 27th of December 2011 10:34:46 PM

Vic · Guru

POWER INVERTOR E13 021440 Model A-1700 12V DC to AC

(No make shown)

Happywanderer · The Master

I'm not much help Vic but two things come to mind.
Firstly as you have a microwave and also fridge doesn't have gas that would be the reason your inverter would be 1700 to cope with bigger electrical items.
Secondly that charger in the first photo is as I supposed early like a smart charger and when you plug into mains power it will charge your in house battery. the reason I think this is the one my S in L suggested I get has the same look to it.
I'm wondering if that double plug on your bench is a mains plug or a plug attached to your inverter. If its a mains plug that might be where you plug the charger into when you are connected to mains power.

Happywanderer · The Master

That white inverter has a two point plug hole in it. Is it made for a certain type of electrical item?

Happywanderer · The Master

The 1700 inverter doesn't have anything written on it so I wouldn't think it is a Pure Sine Wave. It would be written on there somewhere if it was.

Vic · Guru

Yes, the double GPO on the bench is for the charger mains power, I have plugged that in when the van has been on 240V and charged the (I assume) auxillary battery, the indicator lights showed it was charging and then green when it was fully charged. There are no indicator lights shown when I unplug the mains power from outside the van, so obviously only meant for outside power source.

The little white box on the floor (only attached by velcro, and can be removed as I found out AFTER Carol had used a mirror to take a photo of the rear of it has a couple of plug holes too, including one that looks like a USB port for a PC.

I have no idea about the larger inverter box.

Thanks Marg for your input, it is much appreciated.

PS: Old Track and Dorian, please check pic's further down (several) of items mentioned previously which may make things clearer.

-- Edited by Vic on Tuesday 27th of December 2011 10:53:44 PM

Happywanderer · The Master

Vic, you might find it is hard wired to your fridge and microwave. I'm just guessing now going by how my S in L set up my inverter. I don't have to touch it except to turn the switch on and off. He has hardwired, not sure if thats the correct terminology, so it goes straight to a double plug and a 12 volt. I never have to plug anything into the inverter. Its all behind the wall casing.

Vic · Guru

Happywanderer wrote:
Vic, you might find it is hard wired to your fridge and microwave. I'm just guessing now going by how my S in L set up my inverter. I don't have to touch it except to turn the switch on and off. He has hardwired, not sure if thats the correct terminology, so it goes straight to a double plug and a 12 volt. I never have to plug anything into the inverter. Its all behind the wall casing.

You could be right Marg for the 12V, the leads on the bench for are for 240V to the charger, microwave and fridge and need to be plugged into the double power point (take one out to use the 240V charger). I have tested this for the microwave, not sure about the fridge yet.

-- Edited by Vic on Tuesday 27th of December 2011 11:17:46 PM

Happywanderer · The Master

Vic the little white inverter. The back looks to be like a fan to keep it cool if you know what I mean and of course the on off switch.
I think some overseas electrical items have the two round plugs that would fit into the front plug hole. I have seen an adaptor for that at the airports.
Hopefully the more knowledgable people will be back on tomorrow with better info than I can give, but hope its helped a bit.

Vic · Guru

You're not bad Marj, you know a lot more about it than I do so all advice welcome, I would be interested in what the techo's make of the pics.

I got my items mixed up, it was the large inverter near the plugs seems to have some sort of plug, it has got "remote control" or something like that written on it.

The small white one does seem to have a multi pin round socket of some kind on the rear similar to some pc's , I'll have to have a closer look at it later.

I think Carol would be quite happy just living with the charger at the moment, the other items not so important at this stage.

Trouble is when you buy something that has strange equipment in it that someone else knew what it was for is not much help if you don't know. Even the chap we bought it off didn't know what it was for, just said he never ever used them and didn't know.

Not much help there. confuse

dorian · Guru

The remote connector appears to be an RJ45 type. That's the kind used for networking computers together, and for some telephone devices. I expect that its function would be for remote power on/off control, for fault reporting (eg short circuit, fan failure, overload, over temperature), monitoring battery voltage and current, etc.

The "get-power" unit is a bit of a puzzle, though. My first impression was that the socket looked very similar to a European 240V type. In fact it looks like the German "Schuko socket in the following article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_power_around_the_world
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Schuko_plug_and_socket.png/800px-Schuko_plug_and_socket.png

That said, I can't imagine why anyone would go to the trouble of fitting a special 240V inverter just to accommodate a foreign 240V appliance. I say this because it would make more economic sense just to chop the plug off the appliance and replace it with an Aussie one, or you could use a physical plug adapter. Europe runs on 50Hz just like we do, so that can't be the reason, either. My only other thought is that maybe it's a DC-DC converter to provide 24VDC, say, to some special device. But that's something you could easily verify with a multimeter. A multimeter would be a very good thing to have, BTW. In fact a cheapie should cost you less than $10.

-- Edited by dorian on Wednesday 28th of December 2011 06:44:15 AM

03_troopy · Guru

dorian wrote:
The remote connector appears to be an RJ45 type. That's the kind used for networking computers together, and for some telephone devices. I expect that its function would be for remote power on/off control, for fault reporting (eg short circuit, fan failure, overload, over temperature), monitoring battery voltage and current, etc.

The "get-power" unit is a bit of a puzzle, though. My first impression was that the socket looked very similar to a European 240V type. In fact it looks like the German "Schuko socket in the following article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_power_around_the_world
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Schuko_plug_and_socket.png/800px-Schuko_plug_and_socket.png

That said, I can't imagine why anyone would go to the trouble of fitting a special 240V inverter just to accommodate a foreign 240V appliance. I say this because it would make more economic sense just to chop the plug off the appliance and replace it with an Aussie one, or you could use a physical plug adapter. Europe runs on 50Hz just like we do, so that can't be the reason, either. My only other thought is that maybe it's a DC-DC converter to provide 24VDC, say, to some special device. But that's something you could easily verify with a multimeter. A multimeter would be a very good thing to have, BTW. In fact a cheapie should cost you less than $10.

-- Edited by dorian on Wednesday 28th of December 2011 06:44:15 AM

I'd say you are right with the German style Shuko 220-240 VAC