I'm not familiar gennies but is not the earth pin on the geny output connected to the neutral pin?

I'm not challenging your advice here as it may well be the case that in many instances it isn't.

Thanks Daryl for clearing that up.

I certainly endorse OT123's advice

Jim

ibbo wrote:

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Are you sure that you gentlemen aren't spies.Talking in code all the time.

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Do you think we'd tell you if we were???? we wouldn't be very good spies if we did!

(now where did I put my shoe phone?)

R.C.D. = residual current device, basically it detects when the current is flowing to earth (short)

oldtrack123 wrote:

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Hi all
Since this is a tech  thread ,I think it may be advisable to point out that your RCD in the van [if fitted] is inoperable & will not trip on a fault,  when the van is connected to a portable geny or inverter via the inlet socket.

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Does the same apply to the remote unit ,? thats the one on the yellow short lead

that was used on building sites or outside use . 

DeBe wrote:

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Just cruisin01. I have one like you describe & it Definitely doesnt trip if used on a Generator or an Inverter. Since they are isolated types of power supply the only way you can get electrocuted is by grabing the Active & the Neutral conections at the same time. Daryl

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 Hi  Daryl

Sorry but not quite correct ,as industry has unfortunately found out after several    deaths.
 It is now compulsory for all genys in the constuction & mining industry to be permantently fitted with a fully operational RCD.
The so called fully isolated system is ok in  theory but  if  a fault[undetected] developes between one line & earth ,IT BECOME AN EARTH NEUTRAL system.

 With all the dangers of a mains earth neutral .

oldtrack123 wrote:

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justcruisin01 wrote:

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apply to the remote unit ,? thats the one on the yellow short lead

that was used on building sites or outside use . 

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 Hi Justcruisen

     They offer no protection with portable genys or inverters
Give protection only on mains supply
  see reply to Daryl

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You could of course drive in your own earth stake then to eliminate as best possible earth potential rise urinate on it..... But please DO NOT WEAR AN ALFOIL BEANIE when driving in the earth stake....
I always earth my own van seperatley.

-- Edited by Basil Faulty on Saturday 26th of December 2009 02:42:11 PM

Oldtrack............I have a blown globe in my kitchen. Is it okay if I change it myself whilst I am wearing a green shirt? Bear in mind I had sausages and mash for dinner as well as two small glasses of white wine.

My next door neighbour is away in Sydney for two weeks........would that have a negative impact on the RCD's positive drive or should I just invert the portable Gen set into the neutral position??

Bloody Hell Oldtrack..................don't you EVER give up??

If the man wants to earth his caravan.................with a stake............F*cking let him!! I've never heard so much crap............!!

Until you turned up we were perfectly happy setting fire to each other's caravans and mobile homes. If I obeyed all these regulations I would never turn anything on.....let alone the girlfriend!!

How could rules advise against earthing something out?? The more dirt the better I say. Daisy hates it and just wants to clean everything.....................but earthing is GOOD!!!

Hi Basill To run your genny Im afraid you will have to use your specialy designed powelead, just like the rest of us. Which after 40Ys of extensive reaserch apears to have stood the test of time & still works. Cheers Daryl

Disco Duck wrote:

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Oldtrack............I have a blown globe in my kitchen. Is it okay if I change it myself whilst I am wearing a green shirt? Bear in mind I had sausages and mash for dinner as well as two small glasses of white wine.

My next door neighbour is away in Sydney for two weeks........would that have a negative impact on the RCD's positive drive or should I just invert the portable Gen set into the neutral position??

Bloody Hell Oldtrack..................don't you EVER give up??

If the man wants to earth his caravan.................with a stake............F*cking let him!! I've never heard so much crap............!!

Until you turned up we were perfectly happy setting fire to each other's caravans and mobile homes. If I obeyed all these regulations I would never turn anything on.....let alone the girlfriend!!

How could rules advise against earthing something out?? The more dirt the better I say. Daisy hates it and just wants to clean everything.....................but earthing is GOOD!!!

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   Hi Disco
I thought this was /is a tech thread.
 Not one for nice fairy tales that makes everyone happy

 Whether you or others like it or not they are rules & recommendations
Like all rules they evolve over time,often after it is found that established practise or even rules have problems The earth stake is just one of such rules

You say ""the more earth the better " that simply shows again your total lack of knowledge on the subject
It is very obvious that this forum has many unqualified people advising others on subjects they simply do not understand
I will exclude De Be & Basil from that@ least they can put up a reasonable argument.
Not just "it,s what I do so it must be right attitude"

If you want to make comments @ least find a bit out on the subject first
Why not buy the Aus Standard & study them [but then you would know better wouldn't you
.Now I am sure your back is up again but frankly I could not care less
Be prepared for more info that may be of use to those who genuinely want to know how to do things RIGHT 
Your abusive & foul language does not worry me ,but it may offend others but I have always believed abuse is the last resort of those who cannot put a sound case to back their views

Keep watching ,you will probably end up with a nervous break down

I am sorry if I am upsetting a group who seem to believe this forum is their  kingdom to rule & advise & that no one should go against them
For the benifit of the others I will continue to point out facts &  things that i believe are not known , particulary where it envolves safety.
As I have said before ,no one has to follow my advise but do not try to justify your views when you have no sound basis

Only one person will stop me from posting such  critical info  & that is the owner/ webmaster.

oh!! thank god you are here we could all be killed due to misunderstanding the R.C.D.

one question, do you do anything else other than sit around talking about cabling, do you travel, this is after all primarily a "travel forum"

if you could just become a little more human and not so damn pedantic in your dealings with folks you would find this a very good forum to be in!

tell us your life story, where have you been, what have you done, where would you like to go

this is not an attack, just trying to get to know YOU!! then maybe you will want to know us,

Personaly I for one hope this fixation for earth leakage detectors doesnt ever get to the point of being fitted to every Small generator or Inverter absolute over Kill. Verry happy using an isolated type power supply. Even use a portable generator in my Tinny to run a flood light as do alot of fishermen down this way for Squid & Gar fishing, bearing in mind this is salt water were mixing with here I have never heard of any one getting a shock Yet!! & they have been doing it for years. Its realy does boil down to risk assesment, any body would think a lot of people have been killed using small generators & inverters. I was taught as an ETSA linesman when working on live voltages to check any thing you think is live to use the back of your hand to check, that way if you are earthed & the object is live you wont get hooked up Ie your hand will automaticly pull away from the live object. Un fortunately Electritians arent taught that these days instead are taught to rely on insulated gloves (an acident waiting to happen). Cheers Daryl

DeBe wrote:

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 I was taught as an ETSA linesman when working on live voltages to check any thing you think is live to use the back of your hand to check, that way if you are earthed & the object is live you wont get hooked up Ie your hand will automaticly pull away from the live object. Un fortunately Electritians arent taught that these days instead are taught to rely on insulated gloves (an acident waiting to happen). Cheers Daryl

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   Hi Dasryl 
I agree the quickest & surest  way to make sure the power is "OFF

But how many out there know that or would do it EVERY TIME'  they touched a possibly live oblject due to a fault.

Remember it is only isolated until a line to earth fault developes.  
It could sit there for ages with no one aware that was now  an EN system.  This is now being recognised 
A new safetey devise is coming on to the market which isolates the supply WHEN THAT 1ST FAULT OCCURS.
 Called a RVD ,as an ex linesman you may have seen used one to check for faults , this goes further & works in conjunction with an OLCB to isolate the power no matter where the fault developes ie before or after the RVD

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Monday 28th of December 2009 03:00:59 PM