electric brakes

Di-n-Gary · Veteran Member

electric brakes

Gary and Kerry · Guru

Welcome to the forum guys, I can't help on this topic but I'm sure someone will bealong shortly to help you out.

dave06 · Guru

I've just read the instructions on the website for the "tekoshna" and found it is a "progressive" type brake applicater

it relies on an internal pendulam, meaning the harder you brake the vehicle the harder the pendulum is going to swing forward (or backward) to apply your brakes

if you are feeling the effect of the brakes on your trailer at normal towing conditions then it is working fine

a harsh test would be to take it out at roughly 80 kph and slam the brakes on and see what the trailer brakes do, i think you would find them locking up the same as your vehicles brakes

the beauty of this controller is it "senses" the vehicles motion and works in reverse just as good as it does in forward

-- Edited by dave06 on Friday 4th of December 2009 10:33:49 AM

justcruisin01 · Guru

Di-n-Gary wrote:

Hi all, has anyone any experience in electric brake adjusting. I've had brakes retro fitted to my C T and I can just feel them working slightly but may not have been adjusted at time of fitting. I have tested my Tekonsha and it's OK. I know of the adjusting nut thingo inside the brakes but how much and how tight should the adjustment be? Any advice would be helpful

        Is that your caravan you had brakes fitted to, as in brake linings

        or exactly what did you have done.?????

        so we can sort it out for you .

-- Edited by justcruisin01 on Friday 4th of December 2009 10:57:20 AM

-- Edited by justcruisin01 on Friday 4th of December 2009 01:20:35 PM

Disco Duck · Guru

Jack the wheel up.........turn the nut until the wheel just locks up and can't be turned................ Back the nut off till you can turn the wheel with a slight scraping sound of the linings on the drum. Repeat for the other side.

If the system has two nuts........back one right off.........set the other as per above.......then tighten the first nut up till the wheel locks..................... and back off as above.

-- Edited by Disco Duck on Friday 4th of December 2009 01:21:38 PM

-- Edited by Disco Duck on Friday 4th of December 2009 01:23:33 PM

Di-n-Gary · Veteran Member

I've had electric brakes fitted to a camper trailer- originally had none- but I can't feel much braking from the trailer. Trying to set the brake adjustment on the controller using the slide on the front and the brakes won't come on hard enough to lock up, thats why I thought it may be the brake adjustment was wound off, what do you think?

Di-n-Gary · Veteran Member

Thanks Duck, Iwasn't sure how much to wind the adjustment on but what you say makes perfect sense

dave06 · Guru

Gary because the tekonsha is a pendulum operated electronic brake applicator you will not get the brakes on the camper trailer to "lock up" unless you have a large amount of forward momentum and a sudden stop

inside your controller you have a weight on a suspension hinge (pendulum) when this weight is stationary (normal driving) no braking force is committed to rear, when the weight senses the loss of motion and forward momentum ceases to be as fast then it decides how much and how fast the forward motion has changed,

a fast change and the weight will go forward and apply the brakes to the trailer, very slow change and it decides that not a great deal of braking is needed

under normal driving conditions you will notice very little applied braking but it is there, but if you brake suddenly then it will become apparent

the slide on the controller may decide the "sensitivity" of the application but it will not be very noticeable

I would not worry too much about fiddling with it just try the "suck it and see approach"

I would not mess about with the adjustment on the trailer brakes, the installer should have done that and also these are self adjusting and you may in fact cause some damage!

Disco Duck · Guru

If you are sure that you have power to the braking system on trailer and your earth back to the car is in good condition then yes..........they may just need adjustment.

Do the brake adjustment first......that's the basic step and when you have that right, then work you way up if they are still not functioning correctly. If you have a patch of dirt road to test them on it is better as you don't stuff your tyres up trying to lock up the wheels. With full adjustment on the controller they should lock the wheels up at about 80 kph........then back the controller off to where you want them to be.

You shouldn't feel too much drag from the brakes on the trailer because that means they are working too hard (That is under normal braking).......

Under severe braking you still don't want you trailer brakes to lock up when you are on the road because that will stuff up your abs. and you have a chance of losing control of the trailer if it starts to skid!

Di-n-Gary · Veteran Member

Hi Dave, my Tekonsha booklet says to use the manual override to help set the gain and states to slide the lever across until the brakes lock up, which all worked fine on our Golf van as I couldn't feel the van pushing or pulling when set up properly. Using the same method on the camper there is very little braking response and a slight 'push' when braking- hard braking that is

-- Edited by Di-n-Gary on Friday 4th of December 2009 03:40:09 PM

dave06 · Guru

O.K. now thats a whole different kettle of fish, I suggest you ring up your installer and explain to him just what is going on,

it may be electric (connection between car and trailer) possibly earth or maybe adjustment but the latter I very much douby as I said these things are self adjusting

I havent any personal experience on the tekonsha but going by the website I would have thought it to be very difficult to get it to lock up as this is not a desired outcome safety wise

I think your installer will be able to pinpoint your problem in a matter of minutes and may save you some frustration and money, go and have a yak with him or even a phone call

let us know the outcome and if still not good I have some other steps to try!

Di-n-Gary · Veteran Member

Thanks for your help Dave

dave06 · Guru

no dramas let us know how you get on, as I say there is more we can try!

justcruisin01 · Guru

Di-n-Gary wrote:

I've had electric brakes fitted to a camper trailer- originally had none- but I can't feel much braking from the trailer. Trying to set the brake adjustment on the controller using the slide on the front and the brakes won't come on hard enough to lock up, thats why I thought it may be the brake adjustment was wound off, what do you think?

         Guys,

          first set the brake control unit in the car as outlined in the instructions ,
          this sets the pendulem according to the angle the control unit is mounted .
          you then need to set the brake bias [ the little round knob on the side of the
         control unit ] this controles the amount of breaking to the trailer.

          The slide control will only apply as much braking as the bias control is set to .

          then as stated by Dave, the amount will vary with the amount of brake applied by the car, the harder you brake the more is applied to the trailer .

           To be sure trailer brake magnets are working , have one person apply car brakes [ trailer connected ] & another person to listern close to the trailer wheel ,
you will hear a humming sound if all is ok .

          Also check your electrics plug , terminals must be clean as dirt ,rust or burning
will reduce the voltage to the magnets , there for little or no braking .

dave06 · Guru

yeah!! under normal brake conditions actuating the brakes on the car will apply the brakes on the trailer but with a tekonsha it wont

power will not be sent to the trailer unit until the tekonsha senses a drop in forward or rearward motion and sends a signal to the brakes, no momentum = no brake signal = no sound at actuators

if it could be overrode then this could be used to "adjust" the brake shoes with a little reverse motion

having already been working on the previous van shows the unit is set correctly and in working condition = problem not with car or unit

the problem lies somewhere between the plug of the trailer and the brake actuators, possibly as simple as an earth not continued right through, I seen one instance of an earth wire sent only to the suspension, suspension rubbers stopped earth from getting to vehicle, these must be earthed right through to common earth

a technician with the correct analysis equipment will find this very quickly but a layman will spend forever running up incorrect pathways

having recently had the brakes installed on the trailer then that is where I would take it back to and simply state that they are not working!

justcruisin01 · Guru

If the tekonsha does not work untill the car has a decrease in speed I take it you can not apply the trailer/van brakes independent of the car brakes ?

If this is so , then in the case of a tail wobble you can not manual apply trailer brakes while keeping the power on to straighten out the wobble?

The one i run can be opperated manual at any time .

I would be having a good look at the plugs & the connections inside , car & trailer.

just had a thought ,check the brake lights on the tow vehicle are working ,
if they wired some thing wrong & it has blown the brake light fuse , then no brakes on the van as the unit is activated by brake light switch.?

dave06 · Guru

I think you can use the trailer brakes independantly, I've just had another look at a couple of sites and some speak of a "thumb wheel" I guess it depends on whether it is the voyager or the prodigy

apparently there is a small problem in that the voyager goes along very well for twelve months and for no apparent reason will start flashing the brake lights, the newere ones have rectified this problem

we had one years ago that we could basically apply at will and use it to pull the vehicle up

there may be an override button on board (as I say I am not that familiar with it and am only going by the website details)

the actual australian website is not to be found

but I dont think the probelm is with the controller I think it is electrical on the trailer somewhere

-- Edited by dave06 on Saturday 5th of December 2009 11:36:54 AM

justcruisin01 · Guru

Yep , we need more feed back from Di -n-Gary,

the bias on mine is adjusted by the wheel on the side , manual operation by the slide .

this applies the same amount of braking as the bias is set to .

-- Edited by justcruisin01 on Saturday 5th of December 2009 12:09:50 PM

Di-n-Gary · Veteran Member

Yes to all, mine is a Tekonsha Voyager , bias is set on the side the same as yours and the manual slide on the front, the led is the right colour at the right times and all appears OK at that end. Next move might be to put a meter across it to see if it's getting 12v when the slide is actuated

Rolly · Guru

Mine's a Teconsha Prodigy 3 which has a number of presets and adjustments, many of which are adjustable on the move.

There is a lever with which you can apply the 'van's brakes, without the car's, as and when required.
The response to the brake pedal is selectable in time delay and initial braking effort.
The inertial control, which dictates the braking effort in response to deceleration, is also adjustable on the move.

It is wise to have the controller box mounted in a location where the driver can easily reach it.
Practicing accessing the box's controls without taking your eyes off the road is also useful.

Since the caravan brakes operate in a direct relationship to the voltage they receive and need about 5 Amps of current, it is wise to check all connections and lines as often as practicable.

The physical aspects of the brakes should also be monitored regularly and adjusted as needed, together with the wheel bearings themselves.

Disco Duck · Guru

So we are back to the original post...................check the basic brake adjustment first!!

The work up from there. Earthing.........power.........etc.

Di-n-Gary · Veteran Member

I agree, it was my original thought, just have to get the practical side done

justcruisin01 · Guru

Di-n-Gary wrote:

I agree, it was my original thought, just have to get the practical side done

Your voltage should be low with the bias in the decreased position & increase as you increase the bias , in other words , with adjustment set to low , ==low volts ,
set to high == 12v. & a progressive reading inbetween ,

check car side of the plug first , then the trailer side . if this is ok then follow the wireing to the back of the brakes where it joins the wire to the magnet,
they may have used so poor type of connections.

Di-n-Gary · Veteran Member

Thanks for the ideas Justcruisin, I now have a few ideas on what to do, I haven't checked the installers connections, just take it in good faith that he's done it right, but he's a pedantic type of bloke so I have faith in his work, hope it's well found. You are right about the voltage being proportional to the bais but with the manual slide pulled fully across and the dial on fully, I should get full voltage or that's the way it comes to mind with me but I've been wrong before, just don't tell anyone

-- Edited by Di-n-Gary on Saturday 5th of December 2009 08:34:17 PM

dave06 · Guru

Gary how long ago did you have the brakes installed. if it is very recent then I would check the output to your connector (car side) and if the fault lies from the trailer on then that is the installers resonsibility) I would take it back under warranty, may be something very simple

Di-n-Gary · Veteran Member

Good idea but the work was done by the manufacturer when we went to Brisbane, so he's 500 K's away, bit of a problem there unfortunately

justcruisin01 · Guru

Di-n-Gary wrote:

Good idea but the work was done by the manufacturer when we went to Brisbane, so he's 500 K's away, bit of a problem there unfortunately

Did the brakes work when first fitted or is this something that has happened since ,
just trying to narrow the field of possibilitys.????????

dave06 · Guru

if you drove it the 500 Km's then a bit of "bedding in" would have happened and also tyranny of distance is against you so it's a "solo" effort, so yep go with the brake adjustment first then follow previous instructions as to electrical

with the brake adjustment as explained by Ducky just one amendment, when backing off the wheel please release the automatic advancing arm or you will bend either it or the adjusting mechanism, make sure not to damage the solenoid on the actuator

as for electrical start with the tekonsha units output and work back from there, checking power/voltage output as well as security of earths

justcruisin01 · Guru

If it has only done 500k on a new system the adjusters could not be far enough out of adjustment to cause it not to work

earlier post stated electric brakes fitted , it had none before
even if the adjusters were not adjusted in fit up
it could not be to far out .with new brake drums , shoes magnets etc & only500k they would hardly be marked yet , let alone need adjustment .

Di-n-Gary · Veteran Member

With the trip home from Bris. the brakes didn't work as they had some weird brake controller set-up wired in, the installer says he fits them to his campers as most owners don't have an electronic controller. I figured that the 2 controllers were working against each other on the trip home so I completely removed it from the brake circuit, wired straight from plug to brakes. The connections I'll vouch for as I'm an electrician (should read was) so I'll check it all, hopefully find 1 thing helps