Car fridges

Disco Duck · Guru

Car fridges

justcruisin01 · Guru

Hi Disco, Mate I have 2 of the same fridges ,they are very good .

I would not run any fridge from a cig lighter , the pos + connection is only a touch connection, think of the cig lighter ,its a heated item & thats all a touch connection is good for.

It burns the contact ,there for lose of volts & amps,< & no fridge working > .

I have redone mine some time back , I run 6mm min, wire ,for the fuse side i got a h/d mains fuse holder out of a commodore ,it has 60amp main & 40& 50 amp outlets ,
the main fuse is a bolt in type & the others have very h/d push in blades ,
what a difference no voltage drop.

just a little work but its worth it , I also use 32volt 15amp 2pin plugs on the fridge & all solar connections ,& hot water systemn,have nmot had a failure .
avail, from 240v wholesalers.

It all really proves the point when the hot weather sets in ,

CHEERS::

jimricho · Guru

I've tried different connectors for a car fridge over the years, cig lighter type, "Hella" (aka Piranha, I think) centre pin type etc. I've found the Clipsal 2 pin type that justcruisin01 uses to be the only ones reliable enough for fridge use.

I'd suggest installing a relay in the line from the car's battery to isolate the Jump Starter Thingy (I love high tech jargon like "thingy") when the engine isn't running. Ideally a Voltage Sensitive Relay would be the way to go.

A VSR (now there's some techo talk! an acronym too!) will ensure the vehicle's battery is properly charged before recharging the JST (wow! another acronym!)

Note also JC01's use of heavy gauge cable to reduce the voltage drop.

I don't know what sort of amp-hour capacity the JST is but it may not be adequate for what you have in mind. Trial and error will determine this. (correct technical terminology for this method is "suck it and see")

-- Edited by jimricho on Sunday 29th of November 2009 07:45:22 PM

ibbo · Guru

-- Edited by ibbo on Monday 30th of November 2009 07:43:53 AM

DeBe · Guru

Hi Duck Have to say same as above all my 12v conectors in vehicles & van are 2pin 32v 15amp plugs trouble free onfrige an every thing else thats 12V.

bill12 · Guru

Are these the anderson plugs everybody talks about. I have a 45ltr waeco and have had a lot of problems keeping battery power up to it. I have a 120 amp hr deep cycle and 65 watt solar panel with a reg, whichis also on a dual battery system when the motor is running, but it runs flat after 2 or 3 days. Would another panel help? At least it keeps the beer cold. I would apreciate some views. Thanks , Bill

Smokeydk · Guru

Hi Ducky

I have had a waeco wiring kit installed in my paj to run the waeco 40lt fridge

http://www.waeco.com.au/products.asp?id=355&catId=&subCatId=&subCatId2=#

also I have run the waeco for 48 hours from this 1900 jumpstarted....which is 38 amp hours....my waeco draws less than 1 amp per hour...got jumpstarter from Supercheap Auto

Dave

-- Edited by Smokeydk on Monday 30th of November 2009 08:08:38 AM

Smokeydk · Guru

Hi I cant find anything on your 45lt waeco

I have a single 120amphour battery....charged by a 80 watt regulated Solar panel.

I have a panel made up with 240v charger.....and amp and volt guages

Reminder....you must face the solar panel at the sun.......even slightly off and it wont charge. hence the amp guage...my 80 watt SPanel produces around 5 amps pointing at sun.....nothing if not

Dave

dave06 · Guru

I've been running my 40 litre engel off cigarette lighters for years, never had a problem, if I "hard wired" it in I would go anderson plug

the power pack would be fine to run the fridge

jimricho · Guru

bill12 wrote:

Are these the anderson plugs everybody talks about. I have a 45ltr waeco and have had a lot of problems keeping battery power up to it. I have a 120 amp hr deep cycle and 65 watt solar panel with a reg, whichis also on a dual battery system when the motor is running, but it runs flat after 2 or 3 days. Would another panel help? At least it keeps the beer cold. I would apreciate some views. Thanks , Bill

Here is a picture of the Anderson plug often referred to on this forum. They have a 50 amp capacity making them suitable for connecting charging and 3 way fridge circuits to the tow vehicle. These plugs are "hermaphroditic" i.e any plug will plug into any other.

These are the recommended 2 pin Clipsal plugs.

jimricho · Guru

dave06 wrote:

I've been running my 40 litre engel off cigarette lighters for years, never had a problem, if I "hard wired" it in I would go anderson plug

the power pack would be fine to run the fridge

The cig lighter sockets installed in vehicles usually have a small spring clip that grips the cig lighter and is necessary to hold the lighter in place while it is warming up. If the mating plug has a ridge that this clip can grip (such as the little red thingy on the Weaco plugs) the plug/socket combination will be more reliable. Many of the plugs and sockets one buys at the spares shops do not have this arrangement. The biggest weakness is that the plug's centre pin only touches the contact in the socket and depends on spring pressure to maintain contact. With other types of plug / socket combinations the socket contacts grip the plug contacts.

bill12 · Guru

Its a cdf 45 model, an older one , but seems to work well. Do you think an amp guage is a good thing to have? the solar reg has an led light panel, which I don,t think is very accurate. I have a solinoid dual battery system and have been told that one battery can drain the only if not in good condition. I am thinking of getting more batteries and makink the fridge system stand alone.Deep cycle batteries are expensive. Thanks, Bill

dave06 · Guru

yep I agree, but then when considering the power draw of the actual initial cigarette lighter that was installed in the first place in comparison to the draw of a 40 ltr fridge then it must be up to the task, the ciggy lighter is hell on wheels as far as power draw goes

I installed an engel socket in the trailer which takes the power for the fridge, this is what I would recommend, I also have anderson plugs in the rear of the camper, but I honestly cant see any problem with a standard ciggy lighter for the weekender who doesnt want to go all out for a small intermittent power draw of less than 4 amps

Rolly · Guru

Smokeydk wrote:
Reminder....you must face the solar panel at the sun.......even slightly off and it wont charge. hence the amp guage...my 80 watt SPanel produces around 5 amps pointing at sun.....nothing if not

I find this statement puzzling, Dave.

I've been using solar panels on and off for years and have found that any sunlight striking the front of the panel will produce some current.
Naturally, the more 'face on' the greater the effect, but panels angled at as much as 80° off line will still give some charge.

Incidentally, experiments have shown that the greatest out put from a PV panel will happen on a day of slight overcast, over a reflective surface (sea, sand, salt or white dust/clay), and the charge will be significantly higher at the sun's lower angles than with a clear sky.

DeBe · Guru

Hi Bill12. I to use a Waeco it is only 2yr old 40 liter. Its powered by a ordinary NZZ70 batery charged by 100Watt solar panel lying flat on roof of caravan, provided i get sun all day it keeps up to the frige & lights easy. If no sun then haveto charge with vehicle or geny& bat charger every 2nd day Cheers Daryl Ps doubt 65Watt panel is quite bigenough to keepup your battery is much biger capacity than mine so another 50 watts wouldnt go astray.

-- Edited by DeBe on Monday 30th of November 2009 09:33:14 AM

dave06 · Guru

hi william, a volt meter will give you a very rough idea of what is going on but not a true one use it as guide only,

what DeBe has said is what I have been using all over the joint for what seems like eons without trouble of any kind

mine is a foldup 100 watt "suitcase" type solar panel which I can "chase" the sun with, I then have an onboard 100 amp standard car battery which does the job very well which is seperate from my vehicles battery and has the usual isolation solenoid and onboard auto charger

I run all lights and an engel 40 litre off this setup and never had a problem, total cost was about $1200 including battery and solar panel and all connectors

justcruisin01 · Guru

If i had a dollar for every cig /plug that ive seen melted it would pay for my set up .
it;s the male plug that causes the prob,

1...touch contact to power supply
2...with a fuse in the plug,
3...another touch con, to the spring.
4...another touch con at the other end of spring
5 ...another ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,at spring to fuse
6,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,at end of fuse to the wire.

A touch contact creats resistance , inturn creats heat,inturn lose of volts & amps &
final melt down.

Loose one fridge load & its cost you more than a proper set up.

As for the solar, yes , the portable where you can chase the sun is by far better than a fixed unit .
Just look at a amp meter with pannel turned slightly away from the sun, thn alaighn pannel with the sun ,there's your proof .

Why do so many rely on a volt meter, this is misleading of the truth.
yes they are handy,BUT a flat or open curcuit battery can still read 12 volts.

It is the AMPS that you should be looking at .

Think of it this way,,,
a garden hose being the volts,
the water being the amps.
you always have a hose ,but not always the water.
again , the longer the hose , the less water..... same as in amps.
the longer the hose ,more friction less pressure, same as small wire & volts.

They go hand in hand , one is no good with the other.

eg. I use a battery charger that has ajustable voltage ,
the difference between setting it on 13.8volts as against 14.8 makes a difference of an aditional 10amps of charge going into the battery.

Same in reverse, load wise , small wire means lower volts ,inturn fridge uses more AMPS to compensate the drop in volts .

There is only one way , thats the correct way.

Also in a solar system , a two battery system keeps a solar unit working alot better
than a single battery.

portable battery /jump start units are very expensive compared to normal batt.
look at the amp/hr difference for a start.

Hope this has sorted some of the issues out .

Cheers,

Disco Duck · Guru

Thanks Guys...................the head is now reeling with all the technical jargon that Jimricho uses (complete with acronyms)

However......Smokeydk answered the question for me. Yes....... I can run my fridge on the JST. which can then be charged up through the cigarette lighter socket.

I am not really excited about setting up anything permanent in the car as the wiring is done properly on the campervan. So it is only for temporary use. A couple of days is all it would need.

There really is no cheap and easy way out of it as you guys have explained!!

I shall, as suggested, employ the technical system and "suck it and see"

Thanks all.

-- Edited by Disco Duck on Monday 30th of November 2009 02:57:26 PM

jimricho · Guru

The water pipe (or hose) analogy has been used to explain voltage, current and resistance since the earliest days of electrical science.

think of VOLTS as the water pressure
AMPS as the water flow (current)
OHMS as the resistance of the water pipe (thin pipe...high resistance, thin wire...high resistance)

Power (WATTS) is the amount of energy delivered in a given time....WATTS equals VOLTS times AMPS

12 volts, 10 amps = 120 watts
240 volts, 0.5 amps = 120 watts

The water pipe analogy like all analogies is flawed but it does a good job of getting our heads around the concepts.

Here endeth the lesson, take notes and do your homework as there will be a short quiz next period wink

jimricho · Guru

Disco Duck wrote:

Thanks Guys...................the head is now reeling with all the technical jargon that Jimricho uses (complete with acronyms)

Hermaphroditic ......... there's something for everyone there!

Look up hermaphrodite in the dictionary (or Google), you'll see what I mean wink

I'd better be careful with the acronyms, might end up with Rudd syndrome!

Disco Duck · Guru

The JST would have a low voltage cut-out inbuilt would it not??

Disco Duck · Guru

You are right Justcruisin...................Trailblazer fridges are the best!!

Smokeydk · Guru

Ducky .....I've left home...with the JST charged 14 volts.......they recommend it doesnt go below 11.....even after 2 days on waeco.......I still have 12.8 left...

the BP Solar panel I have...all you need is a finger shadow .and amps jump from 5 to 0....

Dave

DeBe · Guru

Hi Dave thats why I used 5X 20Watt panels if one has a shadow on it or fails I only loose 20w or only have to replace one panel. They were only $570 complete with a PWM regulator kit the solar panels are monocrystaline from Oatley Electronics in NSW. Ive had them for about 2yrs now. you can check them out at www.oatleyelectronics.com Cheers Daryl

justcruisin01 · Guru

Smokeydk wrote:

Ducky .....I've left home...with the JST charged 14 volts.......they recommend it doesnt go below 11.....even after 2 days on waeco.......I still have 12.8 left...

the BP Solar panel I have...all you need is a finger shadow .and amps jump from 5 to 0....

Dave

you,s are still on about volts , as i said you can have volts with no AMPS.

oldtrack123 · Veteran Member

Hi Justcruisen

"Same in reverse, load wise , small wire means lower volts ,in turn fridge uses more AMPS to compensate the drop in volts ""

Sorry but that bit is not correct.
If the voltage is lower the devise will draw LESS AMPS
This includes lamps, heaters, simple motors, Engel fridges ,Etc

Your incorrect assumption is very common, but only specially designed devices draw more current.They do this by means of voltage booster circuits.

twobob · Guru

OT123

What is being spoken about refers to a standard power formula ... watts=Volts * Amps. All electrical equipment requires so much Power (Watts) to operate. So if you lower the Volts, the Amps must raise to provide the required Watts (power).

So it is correct, lower the volts and the amps rise.

There are ways to lower the volts AND amps, but these are beyond this discussion, and bring in another formula relating to resistance.

Smokeydk · Guru

I guess I didnt make myself clear.......the jumpstarter has a Guage reads in DC VOLTS hence the 14 Volts read from the volt guage on it..

My Solar Panel.....reads from an AMP Guage....max output is 5 AMPS.......

Jumpstarter Guage is in VOLTS........

Does that help?????????

Dave

dave06 · Guru

Ducky to answer your original question

yes mate you can run your fridge off your power pack and yes it can be recharged from your ciggy lighter, keep it simple!!

this is done all over the joint and is fine!!! may pay to change your male main power accesory plug to a slightly heavier one, consider an engel plug or see an auto electrician

I have never burnt one out but if the risk is there then better to fix it before it happens

as for time gained from your pack that depends on a lot of variables, insulation of fridge, external heat, initial charge of the pack, condition of the pack and how you pack the fridge

possibly or more probably you would get at least two to three days before a recharge is needed!

dont get tied up too much in watts ohm's or volts, keep an eye on it and when it's near flat recharge it, have a beer and a seat instead

Disco Duck · Guru

All this technical stuff has convinced me to leave the bloody fridge at home and take the esky instead.

Okay so now.......do I get crushed ice or block ice? Maybe dry ice?

Do I fill the hose pipe with ice or would that dampen the volts? I just had an amp (hope I wiped properly) so the pressure has now decreased enough to get the ice into the pipe.

Ahhh "Prairie Sh*T' !!! Here we go again.......where does Anderson plug into this? or do we just stick the two pins in?? Is Mr. or Mrs. Anderson I hope they are married before they plug-in!!

I'm guessing..................and only guessing...................that a solar panel would not be necessary here because of the resistance. Is that correct?

Would the cigarette plug need to be male or female if the sun wasn't quite on the solar panel, but say................10% off??

If only I could get the damn esky to operate on gas then my voltage drop problems would be over bcause I would need no wire at all.

Aaah YES!!! mustn't forget the fuse...........phew......that was close...........coulda damn near cooked the whole shooting match!! And it's inline to boot!!

JST and 240v Chargers eh??...................gone are the good old days.

Bugger it......I might just stay home and get a Yummie out of the fridge in the kitchen. Hell.....I hope it's wired properly. Does anyone have any tips on checking the wiring and making sure it is correct?

Camping used to be so easy !!!