What do we want? Why do we want it? Why do we do it? How do we do it?

Basil Faulty · Guru

What do we want? Why do we want it? Why do we do it? How do we do it?

twobob · Guru

I want the road side parking bay delema reviewed and corrected

Currently there are side of the road, off the road, single and multi vehicle type. The signage to each is generally, non discript, so you have to get there to know which it is and if its suitable.

While travelling I use them, but will not use a side of the road type, as its too dangerous, preferring to pull into off the road ones. The side of the road type should be banned IMHA

Off the road are useful to stop and check, rest, and should be available for o/night stops. They can be used by truckies (our travelling mates) also. The installation of a water source and toilets, should be a minimum.

While this helps retain our free camping, it will also help the travelling public as a whole, and encourage more to rest on a journey.

kenmarg · Senior Member

i dont think ( we as a forum,there are to few of us ) could exert to much political pressure, on a state or federal govt. besides they just dont have the money,now. but if we got behind,woolwoths,coles aldi. where we do have a large amount of buying power. they will listen to our e-mails, or talk to there store manager next time you shop. if you mention that he is going to sell a lot more grocerys, just watch his eyes light up. two bob. as for the parking bays,i dont think this will ever be settled. the truck industry has a big powerful lobby,and they have been trying for years to have this settled. they govt just give us the brush off. (eg) the law says i must have a half hour break after five hours driving. ( no stopping places or parking bays so i keep driving 6hours and 5 minutes a d.m.t. inspector pinches me. takes me to court,i tell the judge no parking bays,he dismisses the case ) i think the state govts have got to the stage where they just wont spend any money unless its winning them votes.

Vic41 · Senior Member

"Independant RV Owners Association" (or similar worded group)

I think Granny's idea of maybe an independent lobby group would be a good one if enough people come on board (non club members or others who are responsible but do not have a sticker etc). I don't think Grey Nomads would be big enough to do this on their own, perhaps a group (eg: suggested name only) "Independant RV Owners & Users Association" who could lobby councils etc to make sure those not in a club get a fair go as well in regards to camping at roadside stops, showgrounds, ovals and where towns allow overnighters in town. This could extend to RV Hire Company's as they are not a Club either.

Perhaps the group as a whole could display their own environmental type compliance or Association sticker, which would also be recognised by the Councils as well.

With the RV "Leave No Trace" scheme firstly you have to belong to a club that has been authorised by the CMCA (Motorhome Club and founders of the scheme for RV's), and then apply to your club, meeting the requirements and fill in a declaration, pay a fee of $5 which includes a LNT sticker (fair enough for the sticker, they are not cheap) which is then forwarded to CMCA who administer the scheme, issues the stickers etc. Please note that the LNT scheme/stickers are not available to non RV club independant campers.

The CMCA are contacting Councils and others to allow those with the stickers to camp in various areas including towns overnight excluding those who are not members of the LNT (which is only available to members via their caravan clubs).

As an example, let's say you have two identical RV's parked alongside each other in a Woolies Carpark or other areas where the LNT scheme is being enforced. Then along comes a Ranger or Parking Inspector and tells the one without the sticker (say an independant camper who cannot join LNT anyway) that they have to move on and can't stay there overnight. The LNT stickered RV is allowed to stay. While this is only a hypothetical scenario I could see something like this happening if Councils are not made fully aware that many independant RV owners/users are going to be disadvantaged by this LNT scheme.

Food for thought,
Vic

mike and Judy · Guru

Then if in that scenario the fault lies with the operators of the LNT scheme who run it in not allowing all and sundry Wanderers the right to join
I think to simplify it all to become a WANDERER, whether you are in a club such as GREY NOMADS or the CMCA, or ACAT or whatever and also to include the trucking assc, (after all they are also Wanderers
I have no objection to paying a fee for a sticker that would entitle me to park where I please, (hopefully with water and toilet) I doubt there would be many who would object to it
But to answer Basils questions
1 Ability to park whereever I want
2 for the price of CP are becoming to dear for the average pensioner or the SFR
3 for the freedom
4 by purchasing the the bed of our choice, whether van, MH, or CP
To be able to do all that there would have to be some sort of policeing at most of these stops for the idiots who would show along with the cowboys from the trucking side of it and that would be in the price of the sticker
The thing that stands out is the fact that whatever the club, none of them are big enough on there own to have enough clout, without the truckers

dave06 · Guru

cmca has done a lot of fantastic work without becoming an over bearing "lobby group" we (the cmca) see a problem and then simply "ask" of individual councils to rectify it and then help with it's installation

to go in as a bombastic lobby group by any name would incur the wrath of any powerfull entity such as governments, local and state

to simply say "we the grey nomads demand" would only be greeted with a laugh whereas on the other hand if we work with our local community, such as the cmca does when installing dump points and overnight parking areas then the result is much better and the local community can see the benefit

if we maybe draw up a list of "requests" and seek a sympathetic minister say nick xenophon then we may stand a small chance

our local member (geoff Brock) has helped me no end in achieving parking for nomads or travellers or wanderers or whatever it is we call ourselves now, nsw government is amongst the most bombastic and ignorant power that I have ever come across and will not listen to anyone unless they have at least a mill in their back pocket and it is this government that stands in the way of nomads everywhere

Smokeydk · Guru

Wonders where it leaves CamperTrailer owners.....its bit different setting up a caravan over night than a CT...I like to see how you can hammer tent pegs into bitumin or concrete..woolworths car parks.....Hmmmmmm.....Ohhhhhhh well....CT owners discriminated against I guess.........sticker or no sticker....

Dave

-- Edited by Smokeydk on Saturday 27th of June 2009 02:48:09 PM

Wombat 280 · Guru

I like the LNT idea . But!, there's is always a BUT, who or how you could police it .

At our local boat ramp with it's 100 odd car /trailer spaces right opposite the shopping center in beautiful Port Macquarie, there's no objection to O/N stops and quite a few large RV's do stop. However , the location is right along side a number of take away food outlets and is the local boys show place for there cars and utes until around 11PM . Most mornings the amount of food wrappers and partially consumed burgers and drinks left on the site is horrific, despite the placement of bins . Who is going to be responsible for that mess when the ranger comes around and your parked in the middle of it all .

As for joining one of the existing RV clubs I'm not all that interested, but if the GN's want to form a club then I'm in as there appears to be a complete absences of egotistical self serving personalities on this forum common to other sites I've visited and that suits me and mine right down to the ground .

Cruising Granny · Guru

Thanks for your initiative Basil. And thanks for getting the ball rolling Bob.
If we go into these issues with a realistic recommendation, and submit it to the relevant bodies, we stand a good chance for positive action.
We shouldn't have to join anything, carry a sticker to say so, or be subject to any more conditons than the fact we are travellers who have experienced these issues.
The Leave No Trace "society" is beginning to sound like an elitist group which believes it has the only voice in the caravan, motorhome and camping trailer travel industry.
I believe we all set out to leave no trace when we leave a camp site. We don't have to join a society and pay to flash a sticker to prove it.
The volume of support for any issue raised should be enough. If the issue is big enough we could then rally the support of the clubs, and even the truckies fraternity. Then our recommendation would be submitted to the relevant bodies.
We can't demand, but we can strongly recommend to local, state and federal government if necessary. The experience of the voices speaking up should be enough to support the cause at the time. After all, we are all voters and rate payers in one way or another.
We begin with an issue and some suggestions to deal with it. Practical commonsense should be the basis of the suggested solutions.
So let's get on with it. Cheers Chris

Cruising Granny · Guru

For God's sake have faith in your own voice!
Many things have and will continue to be changed with the logical voice of one.
So how much stronger will the voices of The Grey Nomads be when addressing a problem in this travel industry, and the recommendation they make to resolve it.
The Grey Nomads is not a "Club" as such, nor should it be.
If you have such a strong desire to "belong", join something else.
Now lets have some faith and get on with it, instead of whinging and biting your knuckles, while doing nothing. Cheers Chris

Vic41 · Senior Member

mike and Judy wrote:

The thing that stands out is the fact that whatever the club, none of them are big enough on there own to have enough clout, without the truckers

Mike, just as a matter of interest the CMCA alone has 54,000 members and there are several other National RV Clubs as well with large memberships. Add to them the membership of all the State based RV clubs and you have a lot of "clout".

Vic

twobob · Guru

I would like a one stop shop for travelling information. When travelling, I would like to go to one internet site, lookup events and places of interest, along my planned route.

Currently, this is difficult, as there are a number of sites for each state, and the local POI (points of interest) are generally not available, other than word of mouth.

This would allow me to decide where I will stop, for how long, or indeed where I might centralise my trip. Tell me whats on along the way, that i may be interested in going to.

For Sam and his survey on NSW, I would ask him to show me where I can look up events, in the northwest of NSW. All I found was the NSW Tourist site, which covers Sydney and then ALL of out of Sydney, and does not allow me to generalise an area. Has to be town specific, which is too time consuming, if you have no idea to start with.

dave06 · Guru

hell you dont want much do you, "ALL" info in one place

the dragon and I have been and still are travelling this great land not knowing what is over the next rise and not particularly caring, half the fun is "discovering" great swags of "stuff" that I or she hadnt heard of before

in all the years of our travel it is only recently that we bought and started using the camps series of books, before then it was find a nice spot and just pull up and camp, there are still a hell of a lot of places just like that

it seems you people not only want to know where everything is but then have all amenaties laid out for you

the camps book is more than enough for a good many campers, the meal is in the travelling not having everything laid on for you at the end

I have lobbied our local council and local government to achieve not only a dump point (thanks must go to the cmca) but also motorhome and caravan parking on a good wide road within the town cbd, easy walking distance to all shops and loos,

it is also an unwritten law, that will be denied by council if ever asked, that one may stop overnight pretty much anywhere that the traveller wishes

I am currently undergoing talks to allow travellers the "privilige" of attaining town water for them (us) to top up the tanks even if we pay a nominal fee

little things like this in our local community help us all

the worst place that I have ever come across for travellers is the east coast, get 100 kms away from the coast and you are pretty right, the western states are pretty much open range for tourists and their many and varied forms of travel

perhaps you oughta vote with your wheels and take your money over here, then the others will realise how much they are missing out and open up the land

for those "mini politicians" amongst us good luck with your agenda, me I'm just a plain old nomad, and will always be so

mike and Judy · Guru

Thanks Vic, I stand corrected
Is there a National register of all these clubs of the same ilk as The Grey Nomads, and is it possible to to count the quantity of VALID votes of any suggestions that came out of it, on this forum we have over a thousand, but as has already been mentioned only a small percentage contribute
Then how would you get a consensus of opinion for any particular idea over all the clubs,
The demographics of wanderers would still be pretty small I think
Sounds like I'm a negative thing in this, but am looking at the other side of the coin, I been on the road for a long time and as long as there is space for me , with whatever holds my bed, i'll be happy, and then move on again
Thought the population is getting older and the travelleing public is increasing \
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As for joining one of the existing RV clubs I'm not all that interested, but if the GN's want to form a club then I'm in as there appears to be a complete absences of egotistical self serving personalities on this forum common to other sites I've visited and that suits me and mine right down to the ground .

I'm with Wombat on this
__________________

Cruising Granny · Guru

I don't think we actually join this Grey Nomads "club". By virtue of being an active contibutor you are a nomad member.
I don't go with the club membership either. We as a group can gather information and opinions. We can then pass this on to the "clubs" for further support and opinion. Then we send it to the powers responsible for activating the outcome.
I'm a nomad, not a member of anything, but I have just as much right to raise issues and express opinions at those who are members of something.
I don't have to be a member of a club to be a caravan traveller.
Can we please move away from the club membership concept and get on with addressing the issues and acting upon them. A voice is a voice. Cheers Chris

Vic41 · Senior Member

Hi Mike, most clubs in all States belong to an Association representing all Clubs. Club members are asked their opinion on a subject and these opinions are passed onto the Association by the various clubs for collation. The various State Associations have meetings and put these ideas together, and then lobby whoever they have to in order to hopefully get some things changed. Personally, I think there are enough "lobby" groups already out there without Grey Nomads being involved, unless they do like Dave on a personal basis in their home location.

I wouldn't like to see Grey Nomads as a club, I think it would spoil a good membership mix of those who are not in clubs and those who are, without all the hassles of rules and regulations (eg; public liability insurance etc which clubs must have) and someone having to run it (and collect fees which are necessary for the running of the club).

A forum similar to GN in setup is the Caravanners Forum, which has members of all types, non club members and club members of various clubs. They are not a club, but occasionally the members (not the forum) hold a UWE (Unofficial Weekend Escape) or "Meet Up" if you like in whatever State they are living. The Caravanners Forum is not responsible for this and it is entirely an individual meet up. As an example, I ask if any GN's are interested in a weekend or mid week meet up at Mandurah, WA, around September 09. We have a post for this called "Unofficial Meet Up" or UMU, where members indicate their desire to attend if they happen to live in or be travelling in WA around that time.

If I get enough response then I collate the numbers and contact the park and tell them we have an internet group called UMU that wants to have a meet up in their park with approx numbers. It is then up to the individual to contact the relevenant park direct, tell them your are part of the internet group and book in for that weekend (and also their responsibilty to pay for their site on arrival and advise any cancellation direct to the park). I have been to a CF UWE and it works well. There have been a number of UWE's held around Oz organised by a member in a particular state, so I can't see what there would be stopping GN members from doing the same if they have someone willing to organise one. Of course, if there is not the interest to the post about one, then it is not proceeded with.

This is just a suggestion to throw around if there are members interested in doing this.

Vic

Basil Faulty · Guru

Are we getting a tad tangential to my original post?
Be careful setting up clubs, without valid incorporation and insurance you are leaving yourself wide open........

And PLEASE REMEMBER THIS

"From little acorns do mighty oak trees grow"

And this

" A single snowflake can start an avalance"

Basil Faulty · Guru

Cruising Granny wrote:

I don't think we actually join this Grey Nomads "club". By virtue of being an active contibutor you are a nomad member.
I don't go with the club membership either. We as a group can gather information and opinions. We can then pass this on to the "clubs" for further support and opinion. Then we send it to the powers responsible for activating the outcome.
I'm a nomad, not a member of anything, but I have just as much right to raise issues and express opinions at those who are members of something.
I don't have to be a member of a club to be a caravan traveller.
Can we please move away from the club membership concept and get on with addressing the issues and acting upon them. A voice is a voice. Cheers Chris

Thank You Granny.
Forget for the moment the actual mechanics of this, lets just brainstorm and resolve what we actually want. If we can start speaking with a common voice others will join us so lets start building our snowball. We have to start somewhere and the foundation is probably the best place to start rather than worrying about starting clubs and getting political.

Basil Faulty · Guru

comments withdrawn.
PLEASE READ MY FIRST POST in this thread!!!!!!!!

kenmarg · Senior Member

allright i will throw up a suggestion????? "a award system". "THE GREY NOMADS AWARD OF EXCELLENCE" for councils, or towns, or someone,or something. that has helped to improve our lifestyle. any member can nominate there choice,then we all vote at say the end of six months,for a winner.

Wombat 280 · Guru

Vic41 wrote:

mike and Judy wrote:

The thing that stands out is the fact that whatever the club, none of them are big enough on there own to have enough clout, without the truckers

Mike, just as a matter of interest the CMCA alone has 54,000 members and there are several other National RV Clubs as well with large memberships. Add to them the membership of all the State based RV clubs and you have a lot of "clout".

Vic

54000 members , I see it's going to be an up hill battle for the chair to get a consensus at any club meeting when having to deal with 54000 opinions and requests for action. Then there's the task of getting it into point form for presentation to whomever it goes to . We could change government three time by then or at least have three ministers change portfolio and use that government wash room mirror to look in it and get back to ya.

If 54000 haven't been able to get every thing fixed over the years then a valiant few hundred are once again looking at the mouth of that famous creek without our paddles

mike and Judy · Guru

O K , I'm a little behind the 8 ball as for putting this down
As Dave has said the CMCA has accomplished a lot in the years its been around, and there is a lot of CLUBS around,. of which I have no interest in,
There is 54000, members in it plus the total of all the others, A lot of the travveling public are coming on to the road,( 40 years after me)
What I want no longer exists, or is now no longer available, because of those numbers, as the population has incresed to the point where laws are now in place to protect the areas where the LNT has not been in force
The way the east coast is going there will be very few parks available in the coming years,
So we are looking at this from our G/kids point of view cause thats how long it will take to change all the laws already in place
I restate what I want

1 Ability to park whereever I want
2 for the price of CP are becoming to dear for the average pensioner or the SFR
3 for the freedom
4 by purchasing the the bed of our choice, whether van, MH, or CP

twobob · Guru

I would like
The registration aspect of my vehicle(s) to be centralised or made more flexible. Currently if I am required to get annual inspections done before registration, I must have that done in the state I am registered with. Seems the mechanics in other states do not know enough, and therefore their check is not accepted.

While I have no trouble with annual inspections, surely I should be able to have that done where ever I am, attach that to my payment, and get registered. Without this, I must plan my trips so I am back in the state around rego time.

Vic41 · Senior Member

Hi Bob,

Having lived in NSW for awhile, from memory at the time I was there only Servo's authorised by the NSW Transport Dept could do the checks, although this may have changed now, don't know. We don't have annual checks in WA, only if a car has to be re-registered for some reason (eg; rego ran out/in an accident and rego ran out, modified etc) then it has to go over the pits (WA transport dept).

I think what needs to happen is for your local MP's to take this issue up with the NSW State Government explaining the problem of those out of the state, and perhaps have a recognised NSW form that travellers can carry and have either a garage or the RAC in WA can look at and inspect the NSW vehicle to those requirements, fill in and stamp the form which can then be sent back to the NSW Transport Department with the renewal by the owner so the vehicle can be re-registered.

Just my thoughts,
Vic

twobob · Guru

Vic41 wrote:

Hi Bob,

I think what needs to happen is for your local MP's to take this issue up with the NSW State Government explaining the problem of those out of the state, and perhaps have a recognised NSW form that travellers can carry and have either a garage or the RAC in WA can look at and inspect the NSW vehicle to those requirements, fill in and stamp the form which can then be sent back to the NSW Transport Department with the renewal by the owner so the vehicle can be re-registered.

Vic,
I thought that was what this topic is about. Putting suggestions forward, with reasons and solutions, and Sir Basil is going to collate it.
He suggests that they will then be pasted on to who ever, including MP's, and also provided to other groups, where it may assist or add weight to their submissions

Vic41 · Senior Member

What do we want? Why do we want it? Why do we do it? How do we do it?

Bob, I probably didn't word my reply very well, I just added my thoughts to yours, it also asks about ways to resolve things, "How do we do it" and that is what I have done.

Not having a go at your "What do we want" just adding "How do we do it".

Vic

Basil Faulty · Guru

twobob wrote:

I would like
The registration aspect of my vehicle(s) to be centralised or made more flexible. Currently if I am required to get annual inspections done before registration, I must have that done in the state I am registered with. Seems the mechanics in other states do not know enough, and therefore their check is not accepted.

While I have no trouble with annual inspections, surely I should be able to have that done where ever I am, attach that to my payment, and get registered. Without this, I must plan my trips so I am back in the state around rego time.

so you are suggesting a national drivers Licence and vehicle registration scheme?
Sounds good to me, we don't have to worry about the mechanics of it.

Cruising Granny · Guru

kenmarg wrote:

allright i will throw up a suggestion????? "a award system". "THE GREY NOMADS AWARD OF EXCELLENCE" for councils, or towns, or someone,or something. that has helped to improve our lifestyle. any member can nominate there choice,then we all vote at say the end of six months,for a winner.

Nice thought, BUT, who would decide?
We are all over the country, and voting on something the others haven't experienced isn't the right way to go.
Cheers Chris

Cruising Granny · Guru

Vic41 wrote:

Hi Bob,

Having lived in NSW for awhile, from memory at the time I was there only Servo's authorised by the NSW Transport Dept could do the checks, although this may have changed now, don't know. We don't have annual checks in WA, only if a car has to be re-registered for some reason (eg; rego ran out/in an accident and rego ran out, modified etc) then it has to go over the pits (WA transport dept).

I think what needs to happen is for your local MP's to take this issue up with the NSW State Government explaining the problem of those out of the state, and perhaps have a recognised NSW form that travellers can carry and have either a garage or the RAC in WA can look at and inspect the NSW vehicle to those requirements, fill in and stamp the form which can then be sent back to the NSW Transport Department with the renewal by the owner so the vehicle can be re-registered.

Just my thoughts,
Vic

The Grey Nomads in the relevant state need to raise the issue with the rego department and their local MP and the state's transport department. Once again, this could be done through this forum. This is what Basil and I have been talking about.
This issue supports my push for a national registration scheme, which would accompany the national drivers' licence scheme.
Letters to the editor of daily newspapers, websites and the caravan/motorhome mags will let everyone know about the issue, and is another way to rally support.
Chris

-- Edited by Cruising Granny on Monday 29th of June 2009 04:46:57 PM

kenmarg · Senior Member

cruising granny. you are beeing a bit naive
about these licences, do you really think the state govts are going to give up this revenue. they have tried to create a national licence for truck drivers for years. (it will never happen ) the states cant even agree about a scheme,on the 3 months licence residency requirement.