Tourist in Hospital after car & caravan stolen in Halls Creek

Silkwood · Member

Tourist in Hospital after car & caravan stolen in Halls Creek

Ineedabiggerboat · Veteran Member

That is shocking but not surprising. Just in the last week or so, a 13 year old stabbed a 14 year old to death. Numerous cigarette shops firebombed. Numerous examples of shootings, bashings and murder, mostly carried out by juveniles. A horrendous attack by five males in a home invasion in Melbourne leaving the owner critically injured. A woman chopped up her boyfriend and hid his head. The best years in Australia are long gone. I was lucky to have lived in them. Not now.

dogbox · Guru

we have become conditioed not to be shocked by what is happening around us how many of the offenders are repeat offenders or have a history of not conforming

Magnarc · Guru

It is a sad state of affairs when we are not safe in our homes. I have a big heavy aluminium torch by the bedside and, law or no law, I wouldn't hesitate to use it on an intruder.

A law to allow homeowners to protect themselves in cases of home invasion was proposed by the opposition here in Vic, but our present ruling party in their combined wisdom, opposed it. Wonder what they would do if it happened to one of them?

We are going to have to get a lot tougher with these little turds, the sooner the better. Enough is enough.

I hope that the guy in Darwin Hospital recovers.

-- Edited by Magnarc on Tuesday 19th of August 2025 09:06:41 AM

dogbox · Guru

if the laws or those who administer them are out of touch do the laws or the administrator need to be changed

rmoor · Senior Member

There is also another worrying move on the horizon.
I watched 4 Corners last night on Sovereign Rights.

That is another worrying rising movement, not that our current laws are ideal either.
We are simply too soft on machete wielding hoods, repeat offenders, bridge marchers etc.

I have no problem with Sovereign Rights people pushing their barrows, but we do need stricter controls I reckon.
Kicking the can and paying for a bridge march expense with coppers etc is a good start.

I still reckon a massive prison farm out in the desert full of repeat offenders would also be a good start !!!!

dogbox · Guru

rmoor wrote:

There is also another worrying move on the horizon.

I watched 4 Corners last night on Sovereign Rights.

That is another worrying rising movement, not that our current laws are ideal either.

We are simply too soft on machete wielding hoods, repeat offenders, bridge marchers etc.

I have no problem with Sovereign Rights people pushing their barrows, but we do need stricter controls I reckon.

Kicking the can and paying for a bridge march expense with coppers etc is a good start.

I still reckon a massive prison farm out in the desert full of repeat offenders would also be a good start !!!!

maybe we should put the bad guys into nursing homes an put the oldies in the jails they could be better off

rmoor · Senior Member

Was taking to my neighbour a few days ago, works at a local major correctional centre.

They said is is like a holiday camp in there.

DMaxer · Guru

No gaol is a holiday camp. I have visited enough of them in my time to see clients to understand just how hideous these institutions are. Most of the inmates have mental disorders and or addictions and probably beyond help.

When people are sentenced to incarceration, it is to remove them from society and to attempt rehabilitation. Turning these institutions into barbaric places of brutality and deprivation only ensures a worse individual is released into society at some future date to carry on their usual behaviour.

Years ago, prisoners were not only sentenced to a term of imprisonment but also to hard labour. Most of the treatment dished out to those prisoners by some psychopath in a warden's outfit ensured a total sociopath was eventually released into society.

Some institutions, especially lower security models for prisoners close to their release date or those that do not pose a threat of violence, are less strict in their protocols but still have the one element. You are incarcerated and do not have the usual freedom that those outside have.

For those that have a little time on their hands and believe it is all fun and games why not contact a correctional centre near you and volunteer to visit a prisoner that has not visitors, as part of your social contributions. Have a sit inside the visitors section and soak up the vibes. See what you think and how you feel when the door slams shut or later when you walk back out into the carpark. Quite edifying to say the least.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Wednesday 20th of August 2025 10:45:30 AM

rgren2 · Guru

DMaxer wrote:
No gaol is a holiday camp. I have visited enough of them in my time to see clients to understand just how hideous these institutions are. Most of the inmates have mental disorders and or addictions and probably beyond help.
When people are sentenced to incarceration, it is to remove them from society and to attempt rehabilitation. Turning these institutions into barbaric places of brutality and deprivation only ensures a worse individual is released into society at some future date to carry on their usual behaviour.
Years ago, prisoners were not only sentenced to a term of imprisonment but also to hard labour. Most of the treatment dished out to those prisoners by some psychopath in a warden's outfit ensured a total sociopath was eventually released into society.
Some institutions, especially lower security models for prisoners close to their release date or those that do not pose a threat of violence, are less strict in their protocols but still have the one element. You are incarcerated and do not have the usual freedom that those outside have.
For those that have a little time on their hands and believe it is all fun and games why not contact a correctional centre near you and volunteer to visit a prisoner that has not visitors, as part of your social contributions. Have a sit inside the visitors section and soak up the vibes. See what you think and how you feel when the door slams shut or later when you walk back out into the carpark. Quite edifying to say the least.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Wednesday 20th of August 2025 10:45:30 AM

I have sponsored two. Lost connection with one. As far as I know, neither have been back.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Magnarc wrote:
It is a sad state of affairs when we are not safe in our homes. I have a big heavy aluminium torch by the bedside and, law or no law, I wouldn't hesitate to use it on an intruder.

There was a program on the radio years ago about protecting yourself in your own home.

It was an expensive very long drawn out process for the defendant(s). A few cases discussed.

You don't want to go there. Better to have ballistic doors, windows & ceilings etc!

Bougainvillea or rose bushes etc around windows & not shards of glass or razor wire.

dogbox · Guru

DMaxer wrote:

No gaol is a holiday camp. I have visited enough of them in my time to see clients to understand just how hideous these institutions are. Most of the inmates have mental disorders and or addictions and probably beyond help.
When people are sentenced to incarceration, it is to remove them from society and to attempt rehabilitation. Turning these institutions into barbaric places of brutality and deprivation only ensures a worse individual is released into society at some future date to carry on their usual behaviour.
Years ago, prisoners were not only sentenced to a term of imprisonment but also to hard labour. Most of the treatment dished out to those prisoners by some psychopath in a warden's outfit ensured a total sociopath was eventually released into society.
Some institutions, especially lower security models for prisoners close to their release date or those that do not pose a threat of violence, are less strict in their protocols but still have the one element. You are incarcerated and do not have the usual freedom that those outside have.
For those that have a little time on their hands and believe it is all fun and games why not contact a correctional centre near you and volunteer to visit a prisoner that has not visitors, as part of your social contributions. Have a sit inside the visitors section and soak up the vibes. See what you think and how you feel when the door slams shut or later when you walk back out into the carpark. Quite edifying to say the least.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Wednesday 20th of August 2025 10:45:30 AM

was told once that nobody goes to jail twice if they didnot learn the first time an find them selfs in again they will be back for a third time or more

rmoor · Senior Member

It appears criminals are the only ones with any rights according to some.

As usual innocent victims of crime fade into the background, completely forgotten.
If criminals continue to break the law, not ten, not twenty times, but again and again, then how can they expect to retain the right to form part of society?

My Kebab man told me yesterday they visited his son on the weekend, the son just rented a flat at Lakemba.
He reckons it is like another planet there.
Crime gangs own the place, so much for rehabilitation of prisoners.
No doubt many of those dr*g soldiers have been through the system a few times.

Magnarc · Guru

Dmaxer said,

Years ago, prisoners were not only sentenced to a term of imprisonment but also to hard labour.

Bring it back!

rmoor · Senior Member

I agree. For those that cannot be rehabilitated.
Continual repeat offenders, they should be in road gangs like in the movie Cool Hand Luke.

Sure, one time offenders that can go on the straight and narrow, put them thru the existing rehab system.
But those nasty bits of gear that orchestrate the gangland murders in Sydney every 2nd day where innocent Uber drivers end up in the firing line too.

Life, hard labour, they let their rights go the moment they pulled the trigger.

The ones I get enjoyment out of are the CCTV shots of arsonists setting themselves on fire.

We all know never to light fires with petrol.
Too funny some of those news clips.

DMaxer · Guru

As I mentioned in my post, it used to be the case but was repealed decades ago. Making little rocks out of big ones does nothing for anyone. Chain gangs would mean unemployment for those already employed doing these things.

The reality is this. When a person is sentenced to az term of imprisonment the punishment is to remove that person from society for either a definite or in some case, indefinite, period of time. During that period of time it is hoped that either prison rehabilitation programs or self reflection may assist that person in not reoffending and upon release, take on a meaningful role in society.

A period of imprisonment is not meant to be an act of getting a person into a confined and protected space so that all atrocities, assaults and revenge can be administered by those in authority. Have a look at the history of some of our most dangerous criminals. They all seem to have graduated through some really tough gaols where assaults both physical and sexual were common place, bashings a regular event and then finally when released, you have a total sociopath on your hands, all thanks to the system.

I am not an apologist for criminals. I defended them because it was my job. I was an advocate, not a supporter. Unless it was a white collar crime or driving related, I found that most criminals just reoffended. Some would leave custody with good intentions but then relapse, either due to addiction or the hopelessness of their situation.

I don't know what the answer is but I certainly know that brutality and deprivation does not work.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Friday 22nd of August 2025 10:53:55 AM

rgren2 · Guru

Slightly OT, there is an afforestation camp just outside Glen Innes, the clients work the plantation. Low security, minimum risk, theyd still get escapees, (often during winter). The only reason they wanted to escape was because they were institutionalised,(remember Brooks in The Shawshank Redemption ) and this meant that they would remain in goal.

-- Edited by rgren2 on Friday 22nd of August 2025 10:38:44 AM

DMaxer · Guru

There are a number of low security detention centres in all States. Prisoners that are classified as low risk usually serve their sentence there after an initial time in a maximum security gaol. There are several in NSW where former police officers, politicians, lawyers and white collar criminals serve their time.

I know the one in Berrima NSW had a person there that made fantastic wooden clocks that were sold on the outside with the proceeds going to a local charity.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Friday 22nd of August 2025 07:47:20 PM

rgren2 · Guru

DMaxer wrote:
There are a number of low security detention centres in all States. Prisoners that are classified as low risk usually serve their sentence there after an initial time in a maximum security gaol. There are several in NSW where former police officers, politicians, lawyers and white collar criminals serve there time.
I know the one in Berrima NSW had a person there that made fantastic wooden clocks that were sold on the outside with the proceeds going to a local charity.

I know Berrimah well, I have a burl coffee table gifted to me by one of the persons that I sponsored. I did meet some interesting prisoners there, it became a womans prison, dont know anything about it now as I left the area in 2004.

I also know Manus and Laurel Hill, I lived at Tumbarumba as a kid, played cricket with Darcy Dugan when he was at Manus.

-- Edited by rgren2 on Friday 22nd of August 2025 11:38:31 AM

DMaxer · Guru

Berrima housed a lot of how do you say, people having a bat for the other side. Known as Ps Paradise back in the day. What was Darcy like at cricket. He was pretty good at getting out I recall.

rgren2 · Guru

DMaxer wrote:
Berrima housed a lot of how do you say, people having a bat for the other side. Known as Ps Paradise back in the day. What was Darcy like at cricket. He was pretty good at getting out I recall.

As a crap player myself put in to make up numbers, he was nice and gentle in his coaching. Didnt help me much, as I remained a crap player specialising in fielding on the boundaries. Apparently he kept a car stashed in the forrest that he used to visit Wagga.

It wasnt until years later that I found out who some of the people were that I played with.
The town had a football coach who later went on to coach football at a higher level. His name is mud in the town as there is a rumour that he caused the loss of the towns team in the grand final. The team had been unbeaten all season, money wagered was lost.

-- Edited by rgren2 on Friday 22nd of August 2025 09:55:04 PM

Magnarc · Guru

Extract from UK newspaper.

The horror ordeal unfolded when an armed group of six burst into the property in Selby, North Yorkshire, in a burglary. The unnamed dad was beaten in view of his partner and children, but managed to grab an intruder and stabbed one of the six men during the struggle. He did not face any criminal charges as police said the man was defending himself and his family. Households have some legal protections over the use of "reasonable force" against intruders.

But not here. Why not????

DMaxer · Guru

You seem to have a tenuous grasp on reality when it comes to the law, Magnarc.

In every State and Territory in Australia, self defence or either oneself, another or of one's property is a defence. The test is subjective, meaning, it is what the person being attacked perceived as the risk to himself/herself or the property, not what someone else thought they should have done.

It becomes an issue if the person under threat or attack goes beyond what was necessary to defend either himself/herself, another or the property.

You must be reading the book that also says you cannot physically discipline your children.

Go to a site like Austli, look up the Crimes Act or Code for your relevant State and then look at the section for Self Defence. If that is beyond you let me know what State you are in and I will print out the section for you to help ease your troubled confused mind.

rmoor · Senior Member

"But not here. Why not????"

Never will change here, not while we have so many Wusses running the show and bridge marching whingers abound.
Talk to most people in the rural town I live in and they are heavily armed against intruders.

The occasional story comes out somebody broke in and copped a whooping.

There was a local bloke here not so long ago was woken in the early morning by 4 masked idiots armed with knives each wanting his wallet and car keys.
The old bloke picked up a big knife in his kitchen and said "I am 84 years old and won't be here much longer but I will take at least two of you with me before you get me, who's first"?

The weak dogs ran.

This is the sort of gutless scum we have to put up with in life.
That is why I have such strong views that these dogs need to be locked up, not pandered to.

Why should honest. hard-working citizens have to bow down to and suffer these gutter level criminals.

DMaxer · Guru

Perhaps you two might read this. Let me know which words or phrases you don't understand and I will try my best to help. Other States and Territories have the same or very similar sections as NSW.

CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 418

Self-defence--when available

418 Self-defence--when available

(1) A person is not criminally responsible for an offence if the person carries out the conduct constituting the offence in self-defence.

(2) A person carries out conduct in self-defence if and only if the person believes the conduct is necessary--
(a) to defend himself or herself or another person, or
(b) to prevent or terminate the unlawful deprivation of his or her liberty or the liberty of another person, or
(c) to protect property from unlawful taking, destruction, damage or interference, or
(d) to prevent criminal trespass to any land or premises or to remove a person committing any such criminal trespass,
and the conduct is a reasonable response in the circumstances as he or she perceives them.

Oh and by the way. The person does not have to prove he or she was acting in self defence. When it is raised as a defence the prosecution must prove beyond reasonable doubt that it wasn't necessary to act that way.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Saturday 23rd of August 2025 11:34:07 AM

Are We Lost · Guru

So if a car jacker or caravan stealer is attempting to steal your property and is not personally threatening you it appears that this clause says nothing about your rights. Only if you are acting in self defence.

Ineedabiggerboat · Veteran Member

No. See 2c

DMaxer · Guru

The only limitation is if the threat is only to property and not your own or someone else's well being, then intentionally causing death or serious harm to prevent the threat is not covered by self defence because it has gone beyond what was required.

The force used has to be relative to threat perceived. e.g. If you come out and someone is stealing your car you cannot just load up a weapon and blow them away, a la Clint Eastwood.

This has been the law for hundreds of years. It came to Oz with the First Fleet as common law and then later enshrined in statutes in each state when parliaments were formed.

Are We Lost · Guru

Ineedabiggerboat wrote:
No. See 2c

(2) A person carries out conduct in self-defence if and only if the person believes the conduct is necessary

(c) to protect property from unlawful taking, destruction, damage or interference, or

As dMaxer said, if you are not being personally threatened and where self defence is believed necessary, then the clause does not apply.

So, what legal options are there if a thief gets in the driver's seat to drive off right in front of you, but has not threatened you? Wave goodbye?

Obviously, the case as raised here is different and justifiable because you would be protecting a person lying under the van. But in most cases you may be the person up for assault while the perpetrator gets a slap on the wrist.

DMaxer · Guru

i didn't say that at all. You cannot intentionally kill them or intend serious harm. You can still use force, not kill them if property is all that is in issue.

Ever thought about a remedial reading course or a trip to Specsavers?

Just read the section, it is there in black and white.

I can feel a severe case of ilithiophobia coming on.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Saturday 23rd of August 2025 04:01:08 PM