Nuclear fission or fusion

Collo · Senior Member

Nuclear fission or fusion

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

Dream on.
How many decades is it now? Don't even have a prototype yet.

Cheers,
Peter

Bicyclecamper · Guru

Thorium/Salt reactor power plants are the only way to go, less waste issues, within 150 years the waste is safe.

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Saturday 3rd of May 2025 10:56:49 AM

Bicyclecamper · Guru

Finally nuclear is dead for good.

dogbox · Guru

Bicyclecamper wrote:

Finally nuclear is dead for good.

with so many counties using nuclear power for their electrical power needs it is not dead, just not available in this country.

if people think wind farms and solar are the answer they should look at the damage these things do to the environment for a very limited life span.

we think we can save the world by banning nuclear power, and coal fired power stations while the rest of the world burns our coal(and gas) by the ship load

Ineedabiggerboat · Member

From Rand Corp Exponential growth in AI computation is driving unprecedented power demands that could overwhelm existing infrastructure Global AI data center power demand could reach 68 GW by 2027 and 327 GW by 2030, compared with total global data center capacity of just 88 GW in 2022. Individual AI training runs could require up to 1 GW in a single location by 2028 and 8 GW by 2030, although decentralized training algorithms could distribute this power requirement across locations. What this means is that Australia will be left behind in the AI space. This will affect industry and defence. The scare campaign against nuclear is silly. 19 out of 20 of the worlds top developing countries are using nuclear. Why is that?

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

You can argue all you like, but it will never happen.
NIMBY will ensure that.
Since 1970 there has been attempts to establish a National depository for LOW LEVEL waste (line smoke detectors and medical stuff).
55 years later, we still have not got one.
Cheers,
Peter

dogbox · Guru

Ineedabiggerboat wrote:

From Rand Corp
Exponential growth in AI computation is driving unprecedented power demands that could overwhelm existing infrastructure

Global AI data center power demand could reach 68 GW by 2027 and 327 GW by 2030, compared with total global data center capacity of just 88 GW in 2022.
Individual AI training runs could require up to 1 GW in a single location by 2028 and 8 GW by 2030, although decentralized training algorithms could distribute this power requirement across locations.

What this means is that Australia will be left behind in the AI space. This will affect industry and defence.

The scare campaign against nuclear is silly. 19 out of 20 of the worlds top developing countries are using nuclear. Why is that?

this country also put a stop to major hydro power, when/where was the last major dam built? over in the ord river maybe?

we put up with floods an droughts if we were to control the water we have we would have plenty an reduce the damage done by flooding and produce electricity at same time.

our need for electricity will only increase, maybe faster than we can produce it

Are We Lost · Guru

Australia is the odd one out. It's a wonder that all those other countries don't realise that the sky is falling.

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

Germany had 17 nuclear power stations.
They decided in 2000 to shut them. Successive governments have agreed. The last closed in 2023.
Cheers,
Peter

Are We Lost · Guru

Peter, you cherry picked one country that aligns with your agenda. I did not need to cherry pick.

Plans for nuclear reactors worldwide

"About 30 countries are considering, planning or starting nuclear power programmes."

See the table in that link for the list of 65 nuclear reactors under construction, and 85 planned or proposed. They are on top of the 440 already in use.

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

dogbox wrote:

this country also put a stop to major hydro power, when/where was the last major dam built? over in the ord river maybe?

You have not heard of Snowy 2?

The Snowy 2.0 project in the Snowy Mountains is making steady progress, with recent updates highlighting tunnel construction and power station cavern excavation. The project is on track for completion in December 2028, with first power expected in the second half of 2027.

Cheers,

Peter

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

Are We Lost wrote:
Peter, you cherry picked one country that aligns with your agenda. I did not need to cherry pick.

Plans for nuclear reactors worldwide
"About 30 countries are considering, planning or starting nuclear power programmes."
See the table in that link for the list of 65 nuclear reactors under construction, and 85 planned or proposed. They are on top of the 440 already in use.

How many of that 66 are in developed western countries?

No need to cherry pick them :)

Cheers,

Peter

dogbox · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:

dogbox wrote:

this country also put a stop to major hydro power, when/where was the last major dam built? over in the ord river maybe?
You have not heard of Snowy 2?
The Snowy 2.0 project in the Snowy Mountains is making steady progress, with recent updates highlighting tunnel construction and power station cavern excavation. The project is on track for completion in December 2028, with first power expected in the second half of 2027.
Cheers,
Peter

yes funny enough i had heard of the snowy but considered it an upgrade/rebuilt/addition to existing infrastructure like if they updated/refurbished an old out dated coal fired power station our needs could be growing faster than the new supply is being created.

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

The real value of Snowy 2 is to store excess solar generated energy for later use (350,000mWh, although its generation capacity is also significant (2,200mW).

Rooftop solar is NEW generation capacity. Ours at home is now just over 10 years old. We have no battery. Our bills for the last 10 years are about ZERO.

Rooftop solar now accounts for 11.2 per cent of Australias electricity supply, according to the Clean Energy Councils new Rooftop Solar and Storage Report, published today.

The sheer scale and pace of rooftop solar in Australia is unparalleled anywhere else in the world, due to an abundance of sunshine and the inherent benefits including lower energy bills and feed-in tariffs, he said.

Last year saw 2.9 GW of new capacity installed from 314,507 units, marking the second-biggest year for the uptake of rooftop solar, solidifying its position as the second-largest source of renewable generation and the fourth-largest source of all electricity generation in Australia.

More than three million Australians understand that their rooftop solar systems are providing them with substantial savings, greater value and peace of mind.

The recent announcement by the Federal Government of the $1 billion Solar Sunshot manufacturing support program is a positive sign for future progress, as we leverage world-leading research and innovation to make more solar products right here in Australia.

Fifty-seven thousand behind-the-meter batteries were also installed in 2023. When combined with the future uptake of behind-the-meter batteries, households have even more to gain, all the while supporting Australias timely transition to a renewable energy future.

It is clear that now is the time to back home batteries, build on their growing popularity among households and write the next chapter of Australias solar success story, Hristodoulidis said.

This is why the Clean Energy Council has led calls for a national Home Battery Saver Program of up to $6500 per household to provide more Australians with cost-of-living relief and the added flexibility of storing, using and trading lower-cost electricity generated at home, tailored to their needs.

Key statistics from the Rooftop Solar and Storage H2 2023 Report:

Collectively, rooftop solar is now the second largest source of renewable electricity generation in Australia (behind wind energy generation), and the fourth largest source of electricity generation, providing approximately 11.2 per cent of the countrys power supply.
2023 saw rooftop photovoltaic (PV) installations surpassed a total of 20 GW installed capacity in Australia.
With 970 MW of new rooftop solar systems installed in 2023, New South Wales broke the record for the highest annual installed capacity of any state ever recorded.
The total number of rooftop solar installations in Queensland surpassed the one million mark, the first state to do so.
Fifty-seven thousand behind-the-meter batteries were installed in 2023.

Cheers,

Peter

Are We Lost · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
How many of that 66 are in developed western countries?

Why do they have to be western countries. I asked Copilot for a list based on GDP. In order of GDP 8 out of the top 10 have nuclear or are building/planning them, and 15 out of the top 20. By population the numbers are higher.

I don't claim to be a nuclear scientist with inside information, and I doubt anyone here could offer expert opinion. I just made the point that the leaders of many other countries, and the largest countries seem to think nuclear is a better option.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Wednesday 7th of May 2025 01:03:15 AM

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

I think that the result of the election says quite clearly that the Australian voting population does not want nuclear power.

Too slow, too expensive, too much risk.

For less than the cost of nuclear, every single house in Australia could have solar and batteries. Just getting rid of Germanies old nuclear reactors is costing many many billions.

Besides, as I said before......

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
You can argue all you like, but it will never happen.
NIMBY will ensure that.
Since 1970 there has been attempts to establish a National depository for LOW LEVEL waste (like smoke detectors and medical stuff).
55 years later, we still have not got one.
Cheers,
Peter

Cheers,

Peter

dogbox · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:

I think that the result of the election says quite clearly that the Australian voting population does not want nuclear power.
Too slow, too expensive, too much risk.
For less than the cost of nuclear, every single house in Australia could have solar and batteries. Just getting rid of Germanies old nuclear reactors is costing many many billions.
Besides, as I said before......
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
You can argue all you like, but it will never happen.
NIMBY will ensure that.
Since 1970 there has been attempts to establish a National depository for LOW LEVEL waste (like smoke detectors and medical stuff).
55 years later, we still have not got one.
Cheers,
Peter
Cheers,
Peter

one question i would ask " what do we do with the renewable infrastructure/material at the end of it's life" some of it is getting to end of life already and seem to be causing some issues as to disposal. due to the large amounts that we will acquire in the near future how big of a problem will we have?

Ineedabiggerboat · Member

The election was not about nuclear energy. To Australias detriment, voters went with what's in it for me rather than whats best for our long term prospects.

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

dogbox wrote:
one question i would ask " what do we do with the renewable infrastructure/material at the end of it's life" some of it is getting to end of life already and seem to be causing some issues as to disposal. due to the large amounts that we will acquire in the near future how big of a problem will we have?

Starting to happen slowly. There is a recycler in Adelaide. Aluminium and copper are easy, glass next. Will happen more as volumes increase.

Easier than "recycling" an old coal mine or nuclear waste.

Cheers,

Peter

Cupie · Guru

I'm with you Peter