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Post Info TOPIC: Insurance


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Insurance


We live on a bush block twenty five minutes west of Ballarat. We are surrounded by bush, so our fire risk is high. We built our house eight years ago and although we can get insurance, at a fairly high cost, we decided to install a sprinkler system on the house and free standing garage. It wasn't cheap at 20k, but it works particulary well and we feel we could get through a bush fire ok. We didn't want the heart break or drama of having to start again as well as losing all our possessions.

Yesterday, I was listening to a radio interview from the Grampians/Halls Gap area. They we saying that people can't get insurance anymore, as is the case in the Dandenongs north of Melbourne.

Why aren't the insurance companies saying...If you are living in the bush, you must install a sprinkler system. If you do so, and mitigate the risk, then we will insure you.

Better to spend 20/30k and save your house than to lose a $800 000 house uninsured.

The insurance industry needs looking into.

Collo.



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Collo wrote:

We live on a bush block twenty five minutes west of Ballarat. We are surrounded by bush, so our fire risk is high. We built our house eight years ago and although we can get insurance, at a fairly high cost, we decided to install a sprinkler system on the house and free standing garage. It wasn't cheap at 20k, but it works particulary well and we feel we could get through a bush fire ok. We didn't want the heart break or drama of having to start again as well as losing all our possessions.

Yesterday, I was listening to a radio interview from the Grampians/Halls Gap area. They we saying that people can't get insurance anymore, as is the case in the Dandenongs north of Melbourne.

Why aren't the insurance companies saying...If you are living in the bush, you must install a sprinkler system. If you do so, and mitigate the risk, then we will insure you.

Better to spend 20/30k and save your house than to lose a $800 000 house uninsured.

The insurance industry needs looking into.

Collo.


Just as an observation...Isn't it amazing that people who put themselves in such a position that they're going to lose everything if things go pear shaped, often (if not always) blame the insurance companies for not being able to get insurance at a reasonable price.  From those  who buy a house on a floodplain known to flood every time theres decent rain, to those who surround yourself with bush and the risk of bush fires,  to those who drive their 4WD through flooded creeks (just to name a few scenarios).  Somehow the fact that insurance companies are in it purely for the chance to make money and that your house/car isn't going to help them achieve that goal seems to have escaped most punters who have put themselves in that situation.

I noticed recently that reinsurance costs are going to rise again this year.  For those that don't know, (and all of this from memory so while the theory is correct the numbers may out a little) the insurance company  you deal with (e.g. Suncorp) is probably only carrying part of the risk and so only part of the financial burden.  The rest is covered by various reinsurance companies which costs your insurance company something like 20-30% of your premium.  Again from memory,  a company like Suncorp has reinsurance so that everything over and above the initial $1.2 billion in payouts(I think) over a 12 month period is covered by the reinsurers.   Given that bush fires and floods everywhere are getting bigger, fiercer and doing more damage it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise that insurance companies at all levels are reacting by raising premiums and dodging high risks.

Same goes for cars.  As cars get more and more complex and the costs around repairing (or worse replacing) them rise, the insurance premiums will rise.  Particularly (coming from personal experience) on 4WDs.

and BTW even with a sprinkler system, the risk of your house burning down in a bush fire may still be so high that insurance company won't be interested in insuring you regardless of how much the premium. 

Simon



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How is the sprinkler system powered, mains power or gen set. If you are using a generator will it continue to run during a fire when the air is super heated?

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Hi Collo, good thinking. Re your water supply do you have a pool or a pond and a diesel generator/pump.

If houses in LA had your setup, my insurance would not be increasing by 2%. (And plastic roof gutters as per some new homes are fire prone)


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peter67 wrote:

How is the sprinkler system powered, mains power or gen set. If you are using a generator will it continue to run during a fire when the air is super heated?


 The system is powered by a honda twin impeller pump. The one weakness with the set up is....the fuel tank on the pump will only run for one hour, so one has to wait until the fire is reasonably close before starting the pump. I don't want to be re filling a fuel tank with fire all around me!

Collo.



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PeterInSa wrote:

Hi Collo, good thinking. Re your water supply do you have a pool or a pond and a diesel generator/pump.

If houses in LA had your setup, my insurance would not be increasing by 2%. (And plastic roof gutters as per some new homes are fire prone)


 The water supply is from a Rhino Safeguard tank. A twin skin tank...that is, it has a outer  tank, then a 150mm air gap, then the water holding tank. 80 000 liters.

It also doubles as our house supply.

Collo.



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Re (the fuel tank on the pump will only run for one hour,) That could be a bit fine if down the road,, the fire has already felled a tree across the road,... but you would have already checked out your bolt holes.

In SA a chap built his own fire Bunker from a Vic Certified design/Kit, I understand the Boffins here in SA Gov. have no time to approve the design and he will be fined if he uses it. I think they want an expense paid trip to Vic and overseas ( with accommodation) to check out the system

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Don't wish to sound rude, but have learned from experience.
In 1990 my wife and I bought our first home. In 1991 there was a one in one hundred year flood.

In 1956 (a notorious rainfall year in NSW) where we were was one foot under.
A panicking situation for about a week but fortunately the waters subsided and we just missed getting our new home flooded.

The next home we owned was on the crest of a hill. We had learned that lesson.
Recall one year as a flash flood inundated all the houses below us, lesson learned. Dodged that bullet.
Then in 2003 when one was contracting into govt in Canberra we witnessed the Canberra fires.

I knew we were in trouble when our suburb far from the fringe had a bit of bark drop at my feet in the backyard smoking from both ends.
I thought "this is not going to be good".

Never been so wrong in my life, as we all saw a small wisp of fire rise in the Brindabellas I said "Reckon that mountain will be on fire in half an hour".
It was completely engulfed by flames within TWO minutes.

From those two experiences I have learned :

One does not buy a house on a flood plain, nor does one live near or in a pine forest. Or any forest for that matter.

If you do, then when the situation occurs, all I can say is good luck........

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We're in a rural area and a couple of major fires have been through since we moved here. In the worst one, we had to evacuate as there's only one road in and it was about to be cut off by the fire. Over the next 16 hours we watched the map on the RFS app as the fire moved to the edge of our property before a change of wind direction. We were lucky but about 20 neighbours lost their homes. A sprinkler system on the house would certainly dampen the ground and help with embers, but if it had run out of generator fuel (or water) many hours before a major fire went through I don't think it would do much to help. I had previously been a volunteer with RFS but had to stop due to health reasons.

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Rodsvan

A mate from the RFS came and visited us in Canberra after that major fire.
Took him on a bit of a tour. In one region where there was a massive pine forest across the road with varying distances from the homes opposite, those within 120 metres of the forest were gone. Those slightly further away survived.

Then in the region where Rob De Castella lost his home there was one significant common denominator.
Those houses with (the remnants of) trees in their house yard were gone, those without a few large trees and shrubs survived.
This was the case to about 3 streets back, there were homes a few hundred metres back that burned, they had trees and shrubs.
I am not saying people shouldn't have nice yards, it is a lesson though.

Where we lived several KM away we were well into the suburbs.
We were rained upon by bits of blackened smoking bark and leaves when the fire switched.
That is when we saw it come over the mountain and one small spot fire, then 20, then woosh, a whole mountain disappeared in no time.

Is real scary stuff when they fire up.

As a footnote, at the time there was a govt announcement that anyone affected by fires in the public service didn't have to come into work.
At the time I was contracting into govt in the treasury building charged completing a 84 page report monthly with the expenditure of every minister and senator and former PM's that then went into Hansard once complete.
We were scared by the fire, but not really inconvenienced.
I turned up to work and apart from the big boss I was the only one there for a few days!!
Often laugh about that, coming from private enterprise as opposed to blooded in the public service in Canberra, the work ethics vary somewhat!!!!!

As a a result, I have first hand experience of the machinations and weaknesses within our government departments.
There are a lot of protected species in there and it shows when we need something from some government departments.
Pretty much I think why they want us to do it all ourselves online, then they can have the day off ha ha


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msg


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Like you rmoor I grew up in private enterprise working in finance for the first 20yrs of my career. I joined the PS late and I was a finance manager in a couple of prominent departments.

I have to disagree with you regarding the general perception that there are a lot of protected species there.

In the ten yrs I was employed in the PS I have rarely known anyone who was not dedicated and worked hard.

Like you, I remember that first fire. I think on two days we were allowed to go home if our homes were under threat.

Unlike you, who is a visitor to Canberra, with no stake in a home would not have been worried.

However, my house was out in Belconnen, I had two children in school there, plus a house and a dog in it. I was extremely worried as the fire came as close as Wiliam Hovell Drive. I can see that from my front yard. I stayed home.

Regarding,

"they want us to do it all ourselves online, then they can have the day off ha ha"

I find that insulting. In case you haven't noticed this is the attitude of all businesses in Australia public service or not.



-- Edited by msg on Sunday 2nd of February 2025 08:58:52 PM

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I disagree.
Currently I am applying for grant funding voluntarily for a not for profit organisation.
Have been busting my butt getting several quotes, doing the groundwork.

My only delay from when the grant opened a week ago is a government department I am waiting on to get off their butts and do a 10 to 15 minute task.

I/we am still waiting. I would have had it done, lodged and waiting if it not for them dragging the chain.
That was after I waited 2 weeks for them to return my phone calls.....

When I was in that office alone. The fires were already out.
As to those who were dedicated and worked had, I copped plenty who did very little.

In one govt dept I contracted into there were 3 blokes sitting side by side. I walked past one day and they all had their computer screens on the live test cricket scores. I said to them "why don't you guys just have one of you watching the cricket all day and email or tell the other two blokes what the score is". I copped it from then on. Cold shoulder.

But I guess coming from a prior high-powered environment for 11 years where every six minutes of a timesheet had to be recorded the determine chargeable time to clients, then ones work ethics and efficiency become second nature and more productive than that of any protected species in the PS.

Apologies to all for going off topic from the insurance topic but I think this one deserves a reply. Maybe we can have it out under another thread......

I had another mate who lived up the road from us. I spent six months in his building below parliament house with my window looking down over the expansive car parks. He would turn up somewhere between 9.30 to 11 a.m. some days, well and truly late for work driving his sports car round and round the big carparks looking for a car space.
It was very amusing, although distracting from my work.
Took it up with him one day at the local club and he said he was upset because his workmates on his floor were running sweeps on him as to what time he would turn up on post club mornings.

Many more experiences of these types of time wasting, non work practices. You must have been in the only dept that was ever productive.


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msg


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You must be talking about current experiences. There was no internet when the fires went through. Walking past? that's a real in-depth knowledge of what they were doing. While perception is important, have you really any idea just what is on their plates? I doubt it.

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Gee you seem to have a lot of opinion about somebody else when you know absolutely nothing of their past or experiences.
Very quick to pass judgement or where you see fit to correct factual lived experiences.

It was impossible NOT to see what was on screen with the three sports fans when one walked past. It is pretty obvious they were cricket scores on screen.
That was also NOT at the time of the fires and there WAS internet function available then. How else could I have seen it plain as day.
Also I could see from my workstation what the images were on their screens - cricket scores, basically all day. So what else were they doing?
Scheming some PS policy?
When one walks past a workstation, it is virtually impossible NOT to see a screen?

Are you calling me a liar?

What am I to do, walk along with my nose in the air, not watching where I am walking or being aware of my surroundings?

I don't know why you see fit to defend the indefensible?
Don't think there is a person in Australia that has not suffered at first hand any government departments having inconvenienced them is some way?

Sure I may only have contracted into govt for 4 years then another stint sometime later with NSW Police (somewhat MORE efficient than Fed public servants one might add).
But here are two more LIVED experiences - not your corrected version of what I may or may not have seen.

One of my line bosses used to meet a few associates out on an outside walkway having a "smoke".
So then I would answer her phone and deal with any walk up queries for her role.
I could see them from my workstation. Sometimes they were there for an extended period of time.
When she returned a few times I would say half jokingly "ahh, a double fag session this time".
I didn't really mind covering for her several times a day, but if working for me it would not have been on.

In the same area, a senior public servant had his office near my workstation and his P.A. sat outside manning a workstation and handling all his incoming calls and enquiries.
When he was away and she was at lunch or gone, the phone would ring off the hook.
In my first week or two there, not only did it annoy me, I thought it ridiculous that could happen.
So I went to my line boss and asked him why none of the dozen or so Public Servants in the near vicinity like me did not answer the big boss' phone or take a message.
He said "it is not their job" but he said if I want to stop it ringing I ask her if I can take messages for her.

So I did jump out of my chair and answer her phone and after a week she came to me and thanked me for writing messages for her as it decreased her stress significantly after I answered the phone or spoke to someone rolling up.
On at least three occasions as he was the one the Secretary used to come to at times of emergency, I answered the phone and it was the Secretary himself in need of making urgent contact with our man.
I usually knew where to find him, so would go on a hunt to him to tell him he was wanted immediately.
Those emergencies would hit the evening news later that day so they were not a trifling.
I will give you a hint - boats.

So, what I am getting at, is those PS who think "it is not my job" I think are weak, lazy and certainly not company "people".

I wait with baited breath where you pick the eyes out of my truths and discount those experiences this time?



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I am not calling you a liar.

You are just propagating a popular perception for the approval of the readers.

Waiting for the audience to clap their hands.



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Oh goodonya.

I don't know why you have to be such a nasty piece of work.

Someone tells the truth.
You call them to ridicule and feel the need to debunk one's truths.
I did strike a lot of nasty public servants in my time.

All you have done is reinforce that perception.

I would appreciate it if you didn't respond to any of my posts in future.

The more nasty people one can leave behind in life - the better.

Good luck madam.



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msg


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One last thing. Calling people names is the last resort for inadequate people. Nasty? Ha Ha.

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I didn't call you a name.

Simply described your replies and action.

Go away please.

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msg


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The response of a child having a tantrum. Go stand in the naughty corner until you are ready to apologize.

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Time to move on from this useless tangent. I think the one that decides it is not necessary to have the last word shows more character. Mind you, the bar is pretty low.


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msg


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Are we lost. I suggest you don't interfere.

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In Adelaide we are building houses on the Gawler Flood Plain a 1 in 100 years event, but recently from memory we have had 1 in 100 events occur 1 in 20 years or so. I wonder if the insurance companies are including this in their premiums for these new houses, or just waiting for it to happen and adjust everyone's premiums.

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In the Northern Rivers around South Lismore there used to be a number of small businesses including a caravan repairer and a gas plumber that were truly customer friendly. After the terrible floods of three years back they are no longer there. The bigger companies like the green shed and a number of car dealerships all returned but the little blokes could not afford the insurance nor could they afford to be uninsured.

A really sad loss for the area.



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PeterInSa wrote:

In Adelaide we are building houses on the Gawler Flood Plain a 1 in 100 years event, but recently from memory we have had 1 in 100 events occur 1 in 20 years or so. I wonder if the insurance companies are including this in their premiums for these new houses, or just waiting for it to happen and adjust everyone's premiums.


 Statistical mathematical calculations give that for a 1 in 100 year event (1% probability) that in a 20 year period, the probability of occurrence for 1 in 100 year event is about 18% (nearly 1 in 5) and for a 30 year period 26% (about 1 in 4).  Not odds that I like if I am intending erecting a structure for a couple of decades or so. I think insurance companies know, and why premiums are where they are.



-- Edited by watsea on Wednesday 5th of February 2025 04:13:31 PM

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PeterInSa

I think a similar thing may have happened along the Hawkesbury river in Sydney.
With the constant pressure on homes and building in that urban environment, homes may have been built in historically risky flood areas?

A lot of them went under in recent history, then went under again when Warragamba dam overflowed.
We have Burrendong dam upstream that was 2 1/2 times the size of Sydney harbour, but was upgraded and is now 3 1/2 times that capacity now.

A person in the know told me some years ago that there is a floodplain somewhere near the "12 Mile" sees a dam wall busting, then the bulk of the water escapes onto a farming land floodplain.

Hope so!!

Mind you, the capacity of that dam gets ripped into heavily feeding the cotton water thieves downstream so there is little risk with no water in there constantly.
There are a couple of overseas owned massive cotton farms that snaffle a lot of that water.
Looks like we are getting a Hydro Scheme out there possibly.
Water pumped up to a new mountain reservoir utilizing solar pump energy.
Then feed it back down to feed power into the Newcastle/Central Coast grid.

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