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Post Info TOPIC: The Bruce claims 3 more lives!


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The Bruce claims 3 more lives!


There was another disaster on the Bruce Highway this morning with three passengers killed in a Greyhound bus & four others injured after the bus & a 4wd towing a caravan collided north of Gumlu. Only the drivers would know what caused it but the police are still investigating. For the caravan to be impaled into the front & right hand side of the bus says not very nice things to me. Did someone not give way or have a medical episode? I guess we'll find out tomorrow. 

Please take care everyone wherever you are, wherever you're going, it is the families involved & the first responders that suffer these incidents. The police are pleading for everyone to slow down, drive to conditions & to follow the rules.



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Warren

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https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/4e71d14c65de7ba5d30754f6a3344734

https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/325ed2a50579a9df9cb37a85d3586ce6



-- Edited by dorian on Monday 1st of July 2024 01:41:40 AM

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Chief one feather

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G'Day Warren, hope you are both well. The plan for Xmas is nearly sorted and booked mate.

Just the other day I was travelling along a major single lane each way Regional Highway at 98kmh, not towing at the time, when I noticed in my mirrors a car towing a caravan approaching from the rear very rapidly. As he got closer, I thought, he is going way over the 100kmh max speed. With a truck approaching up ahead the moron behind me in his wisdom came out and was low flying past me. Van like a wobble board. I started to back off a little. The truck ahead was gaining rapidly and the moron overtaking cut back in nearly wiping out my front RH Corner of the Collie. The van was still like a wobble board as he took off. My advanced driver training from many moons and suns back came into action instantly avoiding a road closure and me possibly not telling you about it here. It was a very close call and I must admit I was a little shaken. The moron was out of sight within minutes. I called him up on the UHF but can't repeat here his reply. Due to the action I had to take I didn't get his rego number. The truck driver also called him up and same reply.

I'm not saying the accident you mentioned was the caravan towers' fault or the bus drivers' fault, just how easily and quickly things happen out in the playground.

My thoughts are with all involved.

I'm a big believer in not so much caravan towing courses but strongly believe in advanced evasive driver training.



Keep Safe on the roads and out there.

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I note that there is no mention of injuries to the bus driver in any of the reports I have seen. Regarding Warren Pat's observation it would appear, on the face of it, that someone was not totally within their lane. All will be revealed in the fullness of time I guess.

A tragedy for all concerned.



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I watched a lengthy ABC TV report on that accident this morning with interest.
A local mayor described the stretch of road north in the 100K zone as a "goat track".
That stretch of road was described as "full of potholes".
The police representative said significant forensic investigations were ongoing and the cause should soon be known.
Take your pick at this time?
Reading between the lines with the mayor's comments may have been the 500 million dollars given to private enterprise for wind turbines further north while the local roads lay in a state of disrepair that was also in the news on the weekend?
All the same, a terrible tragedy for all concerned.

Dougwe's experience was also concerning, but as we all know, there are good and bad from all walks of life.
Unfortunately in the caravaning fraternity there are no doubt some cowboys also.
A sad fact of life.......





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Hi again,
It appears that both drivers & the passenger in the vehicle all escaped serious injury but there are 4 male bus passengers in hospital with critical injuries. The bus driver (if he wasn't in the wrong) must have done a tremendous job in keeping the bus upright & so minimizing the loss of life. Have a good look at those photos that Dorian posted & see where the A frame of the caravan is!!

I believe in two things for those of us who choose to tow something larger than a rubbish trailer - firstly that somewhere along their driving education that they do a defensive driving course & secondly that an active (that is turned on) UHF CB radio tuned to at least Chn 40. And for ALL drivers on the road that they "Learn to drive to conditions". In our last wet season, I was tailgated for approximately 30kms in moderately heavy rain by a dark coloured vehicle with no lights on. I was going under the speed limit - perhaps the driver couldn't see the road??

I wonder whether a lot of drivers know what the speed signs say? That figure is the Maximum speed you CAN drive at in perfect conditions! It DOESN'T READ "That is the speed you MUST do in ALL conditions." And like Doug mentioned there are a lot of clowns who think they own the road & can drive to their rules only.

We went out to Woodstock (west of Townsville) last Friday & while the speed limit is 100/110Kph, we were overtaken by two large rigs (4WDs + vans) who were in a hurry to get somewhere. My thoughts are often "What happens if .... ?" How many times have we experienced someone driving dangerously as in Doug's situation, not being able to see something approaching & at the last possible moment, cutting into a length of spare road that really isn't there anyway? I honestly feel sorry for a lot of truck drivers who face this many times a day.

As the Govt produced many posters for Covid & had them posted in every caravan park, service station, etc - could they also print the scene(s) of a serious accident & have that added as well with some sort of a Safety message attached? I know when I did a truck driving course many decades ago with the PMG that after the first day of viewing accident articles, statistics that I hardly felt like starting the car up to go home.


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2019 Isuzu D-Max dual cab, canopy, Fulcrum suspension; 2011 17' Jayco Discovery poptop Outback



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There were news reports of initial identification of the cause of the accident. Commercial TV news had reports, also ABC.
Here is link to an ABC report: www.abc.net.au/news/2024-07-01/bus-car-crash-north-queensland-investigation-underway/104041456



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I spent 15 yrs in a SES Rescue Squad in a small Riverina town and we were called to a lot of big ones as the Newell ran west of the town but we were often needed. Some were horriffic and by hell you can suffer for a long time. The dead and wounded really teaches you some things about accidents, believe me. Was also for the same period of time a member of that local Bushfire Crew and seeing people burnt to death is another you never forget

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News report says that the investigation has shown that the bus was on the wrong side of the road so not the caravanners fault in this instance.

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Greg O'Brien



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Yes Greg, that seems to be correct. It appears the bus was behind schedule & that fatigue may have been an issue. Greyhound are only saying they are working with the authorities.

It certainly clears the driver of the 4wd towing the van who apparently did all he could to prevent the collision - hopefully this will silence the anti-caravaning fraternity. The comments in yesterday's Bulletin were mostly one-sided as "We who drive this highway are fed up with the numbers of caravans on the road & with nearly every accident, there is a caravan involved!" I noticed that I have some "Likes" to one of my comments made yesterday.

I hope they'll try telling the small towns in regional, outback areas that they don't need the GNs & holiday makers from down south!

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Warren

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It seemed the initial reaction from many people when the news broke yesterday was to either blame the poor bloke driving his car and caravan and then to launch into the state of the roads. The Bruce Highway is not my favourite road. It is narrow in parts and single lanes and not designed for the times when one encounters an idiot. It has had over 13 billion spent on it since 2013 with a further 5 billion to be spent in the next two years so funding is not the issue. I don't accept that pot holes or roads in disrepair are the main culprit. The main culprit are the drivers who don't drive to the conditions and drive as if they were on a six lane motor way.

Where once the caravan brigade were made up of mostly retired people plugging along up the road there is now, especially since the covid lockdowns, a new demographic. I have lost count of the times when I have had some galah with an offroad camper or van attached to his four wheel drive, bikes, boats and boards all attached to the roof, go blasting past me well over the actual sped limit with the car full of feral kids and a dopey looking partner. It seems their idea of a relaxing trip is arriving there before everyone else with the tyres smoking.

I remember seeing a study some years back where research was done on drivers charged with serious traffic offences and various road rage incidents. There was a high propensity of those charged also having lengthy records for violence and other anti social crimes. The people doing the research suggested that although defensive driving courses and films about vehicle carnage were helpful, they really just enforced views in people that already held those views. The real culprits were the people who wouldn't or couldn't be bothered with those courses or having and thought to other road users and their safety. It was their suggestion that a psychological assessment should be made of people who had records of violence or anti social behaviour to see if they were in fact fit to be trusted with a licence. I thought there was a lot of merit in that proposal.

It seems this fellow yesterday did an outstanding bit of driving to avoid his tug being collected head on and he more than likely saved the lives of himself and his passengers.



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I think that there are more than a handful on some illicit substance or other these days. Many are on the roads with no permit to drive, either can't be bothered to obtain one or suspended or cancelled. Should be a prison sentence in my opinion if you continue to drive without a license. Getting back to this case, fatigue is a big killer on the roads. A few years ago some very good friends of mine towing their van north, were killed on the Brand Hwy between Perth and Geraldton when a fatigued truck driver crossed to the wrong side of the road and wiped them out. Just because people have a van on the back doesn't instantly make them a bad driver, in fact most are quite good careful drivers intent on getting to their destination in one piece.

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Greg O'Brien



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I wonder how many of these accidents would be avoided if the vehicles were driverless, or if the drivers were passengers?

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I reckon 80% of drivers on the road are not that good, most don't know all the road rules. I drove a bus at the tail end of my career for 12 years part time 20-25 hours a week, as well as being a motor mechanic. And let me say that a lot of bus drivers were very ordinary, and a lot were very good.

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I think the necessary requirement is whether one is a safe driver more so than a good or bad driver. People may not be skilled but if they recognise their shortcomings and drive accordingly do not create the same concerns as some moron who think they are Ayrton Senna.

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With regards driverless cars, I wouldn't put my life in the hands of a computer. The most imperfect science known to man. As an example, the number of people who have lost their lives in aircraft crashes because of a computer malfunction or software glitch. A very handy tool but as an assistant only in my opinion.

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It is where the "drive to conditions" is more important than ever. The Bruce Highway isn't the best, traveling at 100kmh can see a vehicle move up to a metre side to side without moving the steering wheel.
Without introducing a new topic or getting political, what is extremely frustrating is the massive amount of tax payer dollars being spent on windmills and solar panels, while people die unnecessarily every day on our lousy third world roads!

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Hitting the road wrote:

It is where the "drive to conditions" is more important than ever. The Bruce Highway isn't the best, traveling at 100kmh can see a vehicle move up to a metre side to side without moving the steering wheel.


 Clearly then, 100kph is too fast for "the conditions".

I am not sure why many insist on driving at the speed limit when it is clearly excessive.

Cheers,

Peter



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Hitting the road wrote:

It is where the "drive to conditions" is more important than ever. The Bruce Highway isn't the best, traveling at 100kmh can see a vehicle move up to a metre side to side without moving the steering wheel.
Without introducing a new topic or getting political, what is extremely frustrating is the massive amount of tax payer dollars being spent on windmills and solar panels, while people die unnecessarily every day on our lousy third world roads!


 The Federal Government spends approximately 25 billion dollars annually in subsidies for renewable energy. Our GDP or income is 1.6 trillion dollars per year that is 1.6 thousand billion dollars per year.

The roads, especially the Bruce Highway, are well funded. That road alone had 13 billion allocated in 2013 over ten years with a further 5 billion allocated over two years in 2022.

Perhaps we could close schools, hospitals, defund defence and pensions so some cretin can drive at speeds far greater than their skill level.



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I know I will shoot myself in the foot here or someone will hunt me down and well, who knows?

But,

I have been for a very long time and still am of the belief that SPEED KILLS. Therefore, drop the speed limits. 110kmh is way too fast for a start. Heavy vehicles and people towing 'anything' should have a max speed 90kmh on Motorways and major highways but even lower on minor roads etc. It's not rocket science. 

 

 

Keep Safe on the roads and out there.  



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And just today another one. One deceased and two seriously injured on the Bruce Hwy yet again

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 "The roads, especially the Bruce Highway, are well funded. That road alone had 13 billion allocated in 2013 over ten years with a further 5 billion allocated over two years in 2022. "

A partial quote from D Maxer.

This to me shows how inefficiently these funds are allocated and supervised then. They almost start repairs before the white lines are finished being painted. Construction methods are horrible annd not suited to conditions and costs are crazy.



-- Edited by Craig1 on Thursday 4th of July 2024 05:24:48 PM

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Cheers Craig



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Dougwe wrote:

I know I will shoot myself in the foot here or someone will hunt me down and well, who knows?

But,

I have been for a very long time and still am of the belief that SPEED KILLS. Therefore, drop the speed limits. 110kmh is way too fast for a start. Heavy vehicles and people towing 'anything' should have a max speed 90kmh on Motorways and major highways but even lower on minor roads etc. It's not rocket science. 

 

 

Keep Safe on the roads and out there.  


 

 

No argument  from me on that point Doug. 100 % agree.

 



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Southern Cruizer wrote:

And just today another one. One deceased and two seriously injured on the Bruce Hwy yet again


 On Ch 7 News a caravan lost a wheel which impacted a truck travelling in the opposite direction which caused the truck to  lose control and veer into the wrong lane , then colliding with another vehicle.



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I don't agree with a 90kph limit. On our very open roads there are many that can cater for a higher speed for a well balanced rig. WA has a maximum spedd limit for towing anything of 100kph and that is a sensible speed limit. For my weight van NSW and Victoria I believe also have that limit. It makes sense as it is the same limit as applies to trucks and it also less likely to make other drivers too frustrated if they cannot get past and there are no opportunities to pull over and let them through. It is a maximum limit. You don't have to do that if you are not comfortable doing it and nor would I encourage you to do so if it is faster than you want to go. But for some of us it is a good distance eating speed that also matches the trucks and means that we are less hassle for them. I have toured all over this continent many times and where road, limit and conditions allow I sit at 100kph. My rig is pleasant at that speed for most of our long distance travel.

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Aussie1 wrote:

Dougwe wrote:

I know I will shoot myself in the foot here or someone will hunt me down and well, who knows?

But,

I have been for a very long time and still am of the belief that SPEED KILLS. Therefore, drop the speed limits. 110kmh is way too fast for a start. Heavy vehicles and people towing 'anything' should have a max speed 90kmh on Motorways and major highways but even lower on minor roads etc. It's not rocket science. 

 

 

Keep Safe on the roads and out there.  


 

 

No argument  from me on that point Doug. 100 % agree.

 





if my memory serves me correctly NSW had a restriction of 90 kph for HGV an towing over 750 kgs an they changed it to present limits

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Craig1 wrote:

 "The roads, especially the Bruce Highway, are well funded. That road alone had 13 billion allocated in 2013 over ten years with a further 5 billion allocated over two years in 2022. "

A partial quote from D Maxer.

This to me shows how inefficiently these funds are allocated and supervised then. They almost start repairs before the white lines are finished being painted. Construction methods are horrible annd not suited to conditions and costs are crazy.



-- Edited by Craig1 on Thursday 4th of July 2024 05:24:48 PM


 As a punter who drives the Bruce many times a year, bulk of the expenditure would have been spent between Brisbane and Gympie, whilst a 2 year expenditure around Marybrough and Burrum River was made post Mary River Floods. It took almost 4 years to construct the Mackay Bypass, alas the Rocky bypass is an on and off again project,  but SEQ these works consume most of the budget leaving post wet season consigned to pothole patching in the north.

 

 



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dogbox,

Yes, the present limit is 100 km/hr for many towing combinations.

From the NSW govt website regarding towing speeds.

In the case of towing a single trailer, the driver driving a vehicle, with a gross vehile mass (GVM) over 4.5 tonnes or a vehicle and trailer combination with a gross combination mass (GCM) over 4.5 tonnes, must not exceed 100 km/h, regardless of the signed posted speed limit. Always drive to the limits set by the manufacturer, as well as road, traffic and weather conditions.



-- Edited by watsea on Friday 5th of July 2024 10:22:02 AM



-- Edited by watsea on Friday 5th of July 2024 10:23:01 AM

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Gundog wrote:
Craig1 wrote:

 "The roads, especially the Bruce Highway, are well funded. That road alone had 13 billion allocated in 2013 over ten years with a further 5 billion allocated over two years in 2022. "

A partial quote from D Maxer.

This to me shows how inefficiently these funds are allocated and supervised then. They almost start repairs before the white lines are finished being painted. Construction methods are horrible annd not suited to conditions and costs are crazy.



-- Edited by Craig1 on Thursday 4th of July 2024 05:24:48 PM


 As a punter who drives the Bruce many times a year, bulk of the expenditure would have been spent between Brisbane and Gympie, whilst a 2 year expenditure around Marybrough and Burrum River was made post Mary River Floods. It took almost 4 years to construct the Mackay Bypass, alas the Rocky bypass is an on and off again project,  but SEQ these works consume most of the budget leaving post wet season consigned to pothole patching in the north.

 

 


 I agree with Doug,   as I am not in a hurry to go anywhere. With the van, I drive around 80 kph and at times it creeps up to 90 kph. Think about towing a van the distance between 2 destinations of say 80 klm will see you get there in 1 hour, and I mean to get there.

Jay&Dee

 



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JayDee wrote:
Gundog wrote:
Craig1 wrote:

 "The roads, especially the Bruce Highway, are well funded. That road alone had 13 billion allocated in 2013 over ten years with a further 5 billion allocated over two years in 2022. "

A partial quote from D Maxer.

This to me shows how inefficiently these funds are allocated and supervised then. They almost start repairs before the white lines are finished being painted. Construction methods are horrible annd not suited to conditions and costs are crazy.



-- Edited by Craig1 on Thursday 4th of July 2024 05:24:48 PM


 As a punter who drives the Bruce many times a year, bulk of the expenditure would have been spent between Brisbane and Gympie, whilst a 2 year expenditure around Marybrough and Burrum River was made post Mary River Floods. It took almost 4 years to construct the Mackay Bypass, alas the Rocky bypass is an on and off again project,  but SEQ these works consume most of the budget leaving post wet season consigned to pothole patching in the north.

 

 


 I agree with Doug,   as I am not in a hurry to go anywhere. With the van, I drive around 80 kph and at times it creeps up to 90 kph. Think about towing a van the distance between 2 destinations of say 80 klm will see you get there in 1 hour, and I mean to get there.

Jay&Dee

 


 

 

X2

And yes, getting there is the big thing.

    



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