Towball Weights

JOSHG · Member

Towball Weights

Possum3 · Guru

Don't add extra weight to rear of trailer it will increase the propensity to yaw (sway) - try to store heavier items over the axle. I fail to see why you need two jerry cans on A Frame - you have fuel and water available almost everywhere you will travel through.

Are We Lost · Guru

Most single axle vans have a fairly small payload. If you want jerrycans and 2 gas bottles it sounds like you plan on freecamping. Will you carry water?

What are the GTM and ATM of the 2190kg van you are looking at.

Possum's advice on avoiding weight at the rear is good. It is not as bad, but also not desirable to have a lot of weight at the front. Weight at the ends gives a pendulum effect and contributes to porpoising as well as sway.

Have you maximimised what you carry in the Hilux? But bear in mind that rear axle weight is usually the limiting factor as you approach the limits.

JOSHG · Member

Hi guys, thanks for the reply. ATM on the van is 2990kg so should be a good amount if payload. There are already 2x jerry cans holders on the drawbar that come with it. I assume to add weight due to the lower Tare towball weight. Depending on where I'm going but will be carrying water. Has 2x100l tanks plus a 120l grey. With van unhitched I am hoping it would be about 2750kg, but also hoping to have the ball at about 220-240kg (8-9%) would be hoping this is enough to be balanced enough and no sway.

Possum3 · Guru

Josh,
Consider having the Jerry can holders removed, I did on my Evernew, they are basically a sales gimmick that really are just a wind drag and always in the way. We travel to remote areas constantly and carry an empty plastic Jerrycan (fuel container) in tug, we fill it and use as a placebo if going to an unknown locality in the bush, we have never needed to use it for ourselves - however we have donated fuel to others that were too stupid/mean/lazy to keep their vehicle topped up.

Fitted grey water tanks are another misplaced piece of almost useless sales gimmickry. If camping at a caravan park, most have a sullage drain next to each caravan site, plus nearly all caravan parks West of the Great Dividing Range request patrons to direct water to the grass anyway.
Grey water tanks at the rear of caravans are not fitted with baffles to prevent grey-water sloshing from side to side, this can create a pendulum effect to the rear of the van, creating a Yaw problem (sway).
Additionally, if camped for several days you will have to hitch up and take the van to a dump point, rather than carrying just the cannister along with toilet cannister to closest dump point in town.

Grey water becomes very "stinky" and considered toxic black waste after 10 hours in tank.

Carrying and using a portable grey water tank allows you to choose where in your van or tug you carry it.

There are no Regulations saying grey or black water tanks have to be fitted permanently to vehicle - we have never been refused entry to any park or area for using portable tanks.

Cupie · Guru

Possum3 wrote:
Josh,
Consider having the Jerry can holders removed, I did on my Evernew, they are basically a sales gimmick that really are just a wind drag and always in the way. We travel to remote areas constantly and carry an empty plastic Jerrycan (fuel container) in tug, we fill it and use as a placebo if going to an unknown locality in the bush, we have never needed to use it for ourselves - however we have donated fuel to others that were too stupid/mean/lazy to keep their vehicle topped up.

Fitted grey water tanks are another misplaced piece of almost useless sales gimmickry. If camping at a caravan park, most have a sullage drain next to each caravan site, plus nearly all caravan parks West of the Great Dividing Range request patrons to direct water to the grass anyway.
Grey water tanks at the rear of caravans are not fitted with baffles to prevent grey-water sloshing from side to side, this can create a pendulum effect to the rear of the van, creating a Yaw problem (sway).
Additionally, if camped for several days you will have to hitch up and take the van to a dump point, rather than carrying just the cannister along with toilet cannister to closest dump point in town.

Grey water becomes very "stinky" and considered toxic black waste after 10 hours in tank.

Carrying and using a portable grey water tank allows you to choose where in your van or tug you carry it.

There are no Regulations saying grey or black water tanks have to be fitted permanently to vehicle - we have never been refused entry to any park or area for using portable tanks.

Now there's sound advice.

WRT Jerry cans .. I am just cleaning out my shed & discovered 4 jerry cans. The only time I carried more than 1 (3 on that occasion) full cans was the first time I traversed the Nullarbor in 2000. Only used them to save a few dollars that I might have wasted in carrying the excess load. Sometimes I might carry 1 as an insurance when covering long distances in a thirst Patrol with a small tank. But rarely needed to use it in >200,000km. I fill up at every opportunity. It's become a habit. In all my touring I have never got below 1/4 tank left. But then I don't do dirt!

I have a grey water tote tank but rarely use it either and throw it in only because it's so light.

I have 2 x 8kg gas bottles on the A frame but rarely have both full. Perhaps 1 x 8kg & a smaller back up one might be better.

JOSHG · Member

Hi guys, it comes with the jerry can holders and the grey water tank. Majority of the time I won't need the grey tank. The jerry cans, if heading up north of WA (1/2times a year) I would probably hold 1 jerry can full. Distance between fuel can be tight heading up that way when towing. It is more about that lower tare towball weight that I am concerned about. It is lower than most other similar hybrid vans put there. Not sure if that will be an issue. Will load it up heavier but just don't want it to be excessive just to not get any sway.

Gundog · Guru

Hi Joshg, is your hilux a manual or auto, do you tow in top gear or in drive, do you use cruise control.

The eaiest way to extend your fuel range when towing, never tow in top gear or use cruise control, the 1:1 gear ratio is the best for towing.

The next thing is to find your sweet spot, with my ranger Its 4th gear @ 2500 rpm, which is 92kph, delivers between 14.5 and 16 l/100k, I have tested mine using cruise control and 5th gear but that send the fuel ecom to between 17-19 l/100k. I have just compleated a trip from SA back to NQ the average for the trip was 15.4l/100k, towing a 25' Jayco.

-- Edited by Gundog on Thursday 22nd of February 2024 04:05:04 PM

JOSHG · Member

Hilux is an auto. Towing 2t camper now usually just leave it in drive. It never gets into overdrive 6th and just stays in 5th at around 2000rpm. If in hilly terrain I might drive in sports mode in 4th if needed.

Cupie · Guru

Gundog wrote:
Hi Joshg, is your hilux a manual or auto, do you tow in top gear or in drive, do you use cruise control.
The eaiest way to extend your fuel range when towing, never tow in top gear or use cruise control, the 1:1 gear ratio is the best for towing.
The next thing is to find your sweet spot, with my ranger Its 4th gear @ 2500 rpm, which is 92kph, delivers between 14.5 and 16 l/100k, I have tested mine using cruise control and 5th gear but that send the fuel ecom to between 17-19 l/100k. I have just compleated a trip from SA back to NQ the average for the trip was 15.4l/100k, towing a 25' Jayco.

-- Edited by Gundog on Thursday 22nd of February 2024 04:05:04 PM

Lots of good stuff in that response too.

My old GQ Patrol has pulled the 2.4T Jayco about the place for the last 25 years or so with hardly a problem and never in 5th gear.

Its' sweet spot is in 4th at 2200 returning 19.2 L/100k (petrol). At that setting it just seems to gradually creep up from my usual 85 - 90Km/hr so I just ease off a bit to settle back down to my preferred speed. I have run short distances at 100 and the consumption is not noticeably greater, the rig feels perhaps better but I prefer the slower speed. BTW it sounds beautiful in 3rd but I cringe just thinking what the consumption might be.

I recall a much discussed court case 'Jong' here the van became detached and the ball weight appeared to be so light that the van continued on, unhitched, into the roadside bush.

yobarr · Guru

Cupie wrote:
Gundog wrote:
Hi Joshg, is your hilux a manual or auto, do you tow in top gear or in drive, do you use cruise control.
The eaiest way to extend your fuel range when towing, never tow in top gear or use cruise control, the 1:1 gear ratio is the best for towing.
The next thing is to find your sweet spot, with my ranger Its 4th gear @ 2500 rpm, which is 92kph, delivers between 14.5 and 16 l/100k, I have tested mine using cruise control and 5th gear but that send the fuel ecom to between 17-19 l/100k. I have just compleated a trip from SA back to NQ the average for the trip was 15.4l/100k, towing a 25' Jayco.

-- Edited by Gundog on Thursday 22nd of February 2024 04:05:04 PM
Lots of good stuff in that response too.

My old GQ Patrol has pulled the 2.4T Jayco about the place for the last 25 years or so with hardly a problem and never in 5th gear.
Its' sweet spot is in 4th at 2200 returning 19.2 L/100k (petrol). At that setting it just seems to gradually creep up from my usual 85 - 90Km/hr so I just ease off a bit to settle back down to my preferred speed. I have run short distances at 100 and the consumption is not noticeably greater, the rig feels perhaps better but I prefer the slower speed. BTW it sounds beautiful in 3rd but I cringe just thinking what the consumption might be.

I recall a much discussed court case 'Jong' here the van became detached and the ball weight appeared to be so light that the van continued on, unhitched, into the roadside bush.

Yes, that was a brand new van custom built for the Jong family. Git unsettled by a Roadtrain's draught and rolled both car and van, killing all 3 occupants of the car.

Have photos somewhere but can't look for them at moment.

P.S Found one. Note that the drawbar is off ground, van is level, with no jockey wheel! Note rear overhang!

-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 22nd of February 2024 07:50:33 PM

Cupie · Guru

Given that we are talking about the perils of low ball weight, I suppose that it is still on topic for me to post the Findings in the Matter of Tong.

ps.. Wonder what happened to Mr Olthoff. Way back when I started looking at caravanning he was The Guru of Technical things in many caravanning Mags.

yobarr · Guru

Cupie wrote:
Given that we are talking about the perils of low ball weight, I suppose that it is still on topic for me to post the Findings in the Matter of Tong.

ps.. Wonder what happened to Mr Olthoff. Way back when I started looking at caravanning he was The Guru of Technical things in many caravanning Mags.

Thanks Cupie, for posting the coroner's report. Since I've read it many times I will not bother, but it would be good if all members could read it and absorb the information within. Might save their lives. Cheers

Ondway2grey · Veteran Member

In regards to towball weight affecting rear & front axle weights. Out of curiosity is there a preferred ratio between the front and rear axles of vehicle? (Without affecting max specs per axle rating & GVM)

Is it expected axle ratings are rated higher than the GVM?