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Post Info TOPIC: Why would you trade down to an SUV and a smaller caravan for financial reward?


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Why would you trade down to an SUV and a smaller caravan for financial reward?


 You want to tow a 23ft plus caravan and get 18-25 L/100kms then thats your choice and you have a right to that choice. However many people are downsizing in tug to a SUV and caravan to something the SUV can tow. Every time you refill your tank of diesel it's costing you. If for example your 4x4 has a 180L fuel tank, meaning it should be able to travel 1650km per full tank.  that is around 11 L/100kms (not bad for a 4x4 not towing to be honest.) however it is way off the 6L/100km to 7L/100kms in a diesel SUV . Then you add on your caravan and get 18L/100km which is far off the 11-12 L/100km you get from an SUV towing 1500 to 1800 kg.

The end result is when you fill up your 4x4 from empty it will cost around $253 not towing (1000km) or $400 for (1000km) towing. Compare to that SUV at  $132 for 1000km not towing... or  1000kms towing $253.  The SUV gets around the same economy towing that the 4x4 gets not towing in approximate terms.

Let's say the average person drives 5000kms towing and 10,000kms not towing per year. 4x4 you'd pay $1265 not towing in fuel and $4,000 towing = $5265 .  The SUV is $660 plus $2530 towing = $3190.  difference?  $2075 per year. . Let's not forget that the 4x4 costs over 3 years servicing at $2250  SUV $1100 often on fixed price. So after 3 years the 4x4 will cost you $7475 more than an SUV to run.

You want to pay that extra then thats ok, many people are enjoying their lives running a SUV diesel with a smaller caravan and saving that money which, the savings are important to them.

For self funded retirees or pensioners the SUV AWD and lighter caravan might be the answer in these tough financial times if you remain on the black top or non extreme conditions. 

 



-- Edited by Eaglemax on Friday 22nd of September 2023 06:01:35 PM

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The trouble is, once you have that SUV and small van the same question applies. Why a big SUV? Why not a mid sized car and tow a camper trailer?

Once you have the mid sized car ........etc. I don't think the costs are such a surprise to someone particularly with their second van, and while some downsize, some go larger. Horses for courses. Isn't it great that we are all different?



-- Edited by Are We Lost on Friday 22nd of September 2023 07:54:21 PM

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Are We Lost wrote:

The trouble is, once you have that SUV and small van the same question applies. Why a big SUV? Why not a mid-sized car and tow a camper trailer? 

Once you have the mid sized car ........etc. I don't think the costs are such a surprise to someone particularly with their second van, and while some downsize, some go larger. Horses for courses. Isn't it great that we are all different?


Agreed. Eternally bleating about the cost of fuel etc is puzzling. If you can't afford the fuel you can't afford the car. Simple stuff. 

My car regularly costs over $300 to fill, and could potentially cost me $400. Do I care? Not a chance. You don't travel far without fuel! 

Maybe a tent and a bicycle would better suit some people, but then they'd be speed-limited. Cheers



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Both replies are - replying for the sake of finding fault in the question. If you don't mind paying for the fuel why answer? This is why this forum imo, is doomed. So to refresh, if you are a victim of the low interest rates or a pensioner and want to save say $7500 +over a 3 year period you can still enjoy your caravanning by trading down on size. What part of that do you refer to me not liking people keeping their large rig or being different? I show oranges and you choose to see apples. Odd

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I run a V6 ford territory diesel pulling a 16.5 ft. Poptop which weights in at 1950kgs, nice touring outfit with combo shower/toilet/2 water tanks/grey water tank/hot water service blah blah blah, not towing car averages 1050 range, towing , who cares! All depends on your wants, don,t need or want a fourbie.

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Eaglemax wrote:

Both replies are - replying for the sake of finding fault in the question.


I read your post as just tabulating the figures for different options and thought my response answered the question, as did Yobarr's.

Responding with more detail .....

Unlike Yobarr I do pay attention when filling the tank.  But I would not choose something smaller to save those dollars. We each value things differently. It appears you value the savings more than me, while I value the space to spread out and have more of the toys and conveniences of home. If I were to buy another van it would probably be a little smaller, but when making such contemplations, the reduced running costs don't factor in. It's more about lugging the weight around and if a lighter van would open more possibilities. Maybe I should save even more and not travel at all.

In your post you could have included the option to buy an old van rather than new, and factored in the cost of that outlay. My compromise was to buy a 7 year old van ... now 12 years old.

Just like the age of van, is the issue you posed any different from the following choices?

Do you realise that if you buy your clothes in Kmart or even an OpShop you can save many dollars compared to buying from the major clothing stores? Do you realise that if you have frankfurts and rice for dinner instead of fillet steak you can save many dollars? Cask wine saves a fortune over bottled wine.

As I said before we are all different and what suits you may not suit me, and what suits Yobarr may not suit either of us. He drives a 79 series for heavens sake.

Just about everything in life is some sort of compromise. We choose what we believe is appropriate in our specific circumstances.



-- Edited by Are We Lost on Friday 22nd of September 2023 11:14:51 PM

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Many many variations to caravanning, it's whatever suites your situation, yep everybody has different wants. And thats ok. The only thing that should not be compromised is SAFETY. I think towing weights should be reduced to you can't tow a van that weighs more than your Tug. My Adria 22f is 2000kg ATM, I load mostly over the axles in the van, Pathy is is about 2500kg Loaded inc ball, 120-140kg. Tows beautiful. 13-14/100 Lts Motorway, Not that I care about fuel consumption that much.But it does make a difference when you tow a light weight van that has good aero dynamics. maybe a tad low to the ground, but thats ok.

 

Wazza..



-- Edited by Bulldozer on Saturday 23rd of September 2023 12:16:45 PM

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Bulldozer wrote:

Many many variations to caravanning, it's whatever suites your situation, yep everybody has different wants. And thats ok. The only thing that should not be compromised is SAFETY. I think towing weights should be reduced to you can't tow a van that weighs more than your Tug. My Adria 22f is 2000kg ATM, I load mostly over the axles in the van, Pathy is is about 2500kg Loaded inc ball, 120-140kg. Tows beautiful. 13-14/100 Lts Motorway, Not that I care about fuel consumption that much.But it does make a difference when you tow a light weight van that has good aero dynamics. maybe a tad low to the ground, but thats ok.

 

Wazza..



-- Edited by Bulldozer on Saturday 23rd of September 2023 12:16:45 PM


 Hi Wazza,  Yes, your very nice (nearly bought one) Adria has a good Tug to van ratio of weight. Mine is lighter but similar weight proportion and it also tows nice.  I suppose my point was that there are many caravanners out there that would like to reduce their consumption of fuel to pocket the extra $$$. But thats ok, I dont lose sleep over it, just trying to help the battlers.



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Are We Lost wrote:
Eaglemax wrote:

Both replies are - replying for the sake of finding fault in the question.


I read your post as just tabulating the figures for different options and thought my response answered the question, as did Yobarr's.

Responding with more detail .....

Unlike Yobarr I do pay attention when filling the tank.  But I would not choose something smaller to save those dollars. We each value things differently. It appears you value the savings more than me, while I value the space to spread out and have more of the toys and conveniences of home. If I were to buy another van it would probably be a little smaller, but when making such contemplations, the reduced running costs don't factor in. It's more about lugging the weight around and if a lighter van would open more possibilities. Maybe I should save even more and not travel at all.

In your post you could have included the option to buy an old van rather than new, and factored in the cost of that outlay. My compromise was to buy a 7 year old van ... now 12 years old.

Just like the age of van, is the issue you posed any different from the following choices?

Do you realise that if you buy your clothes in Kmart or even an OpShop you can save many dollars compared to buying from the major clothing stores? Do you realise that if you have frankfurts and rice for dinner instead of fillet steak you can save many dollars? Cask wine saves a fortune over bottled wine.

As I said before we are all different and what suits you may not suit me, and what suits Yobarr may not suit either of us. He drives a 79 series for heavens sake.

Just about everything in life is some sort of compromise. We choose what we believe is appropriate in our specific circumstances.



-- Edited by Are We Lost on Friday 22nd of September 2023 11:14:51 PM


 I dont think the OP refers to you nor Yobarr at all to be frank. Maybe all the members here are financially very comfortable so not need the suggestion that there is options out there to keep their travels on a more comfortable budget. Reading your post then reading the first and last two sentences of my OP I really wonder about your motivation to be objectionable. You dont mention any positive comment about the intent of the post, thats either because you see none good intent (helping those less cashed up) or you seek out objection to create controversy. Odd, but I'm not here to evaluate those that dont see goodwill in helping others.



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yobarr wrote:
Are We Lost wrote:

The trouble is, once you have that SUV and small van the same question applies. Why a big SUV? Why not a mid-sized car and tow a camper trailer? 

Once you have the mid sized car ........etc. I don't think the costs are such a surprise to someone particularly with their second van, and while some downsize, some go larger. Horses for courses. Isn't it great that we are all different?


Agreed. Eternally bleating about the cost of fuel etc is puzzling. If you can't afford the fuel you can't afford the car. Simple stuff. 

My car regularly costs over $300 to fill, and could potentially cost me $400. Do I care? Not a chance. You don't travel far without fuel! 

Maybe a tent and a bicycle would better suit some people, but then they'd be speed-limited. Cheers


 Oh boy, Yobarr.... what am I going to do... Everything is "simple stuff" yet you dont take into account financial waves like interest rates or many other possible transformations in ones family budgets that you obviously dont have. Such causes of changes are endless. But the thing that I find amusing is - if you are not in such a situation why post in such a silly manner? Eternal bleating" yet several even many members here constantly remind you that your bleating of your 79  is over the top.... indeed eternal.  "Do I care? Not a chance" then why do you think this OP refers to you?  Comment by all means, thats freedom of opinion however denigrating a poster that is trying to express understanding and consideration for those in poorer circumstances is a reflection of that nature of yours.



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I agree Tony, well said. I'd love to be sitting around a camp fire with a few of these members after having a few Inks, now that would be interesting. biggrin 

 

Wazza..



-- Edited by Bulldozer on Saturday 23rd of September 2023 02:26:22 PM

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Eaglemax wrote:

Eternal bleating yet several even many members here constantly remind you that your bleating of your 79  is over the top.... indeed eternal.  


Not again! Because you seem to be  ignorant of the meaning of the word "bleating" I have included a screen shot for your perusal.

As for my car, you can rest assured that I have no reason to resort to "bleating" because I simply have nothing to bleat about. (Except maybe the rough ride, but truckies don't worry too much about things like that.)

Nothing compares nor competes.

As for your comment "denigrating a poster that is trying to express understanding and consideration for those in poorer  circumstances", that is completely inappropriate as I too have "been there, done that". 

It's all in the mind, and crying "Poor me" is pointless.

In fact, over the last couple of years I've loaned (given) over $100,000 to people who needed help. Although I am by no means a wealthy person I am a sucker for a sob story, and I will always try to help. Cheers

 

 

9263EE94-3E36-4728-AB2A-031A5BFD58DD.jpeg



5B577775-624A-4939-BCCC-8999438E8BD4.png



-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 23rd of September 2023 04:27:59 PM



-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 23rd of September 2023 04:42:01 PM

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What exactly is the demarcation point between a 4 x 4 and an SUV??

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BarneyBDB wrote:

What exactly is the demarcation point between a 4 x 4 and an SUV??


 Good question Barney. Maybe I'm wrong but perhaps the line is when we get owners of AWD cars thinking they have 4wd? 

In fact, only a very small minority of claimed 4wd vehicles are indeed 4wd. Unless the 4wd vehicle has cross-locks it will only ever drive in 2wd, one wheel on each axle. Unless all 4 wheels are able to be driven at the same time it is NOT 4wd.

Several times I have become bogged in the back of beyond, with 2 wheels spinning in mud, but always I have managed to drive out once the crosslocks were engaged., giving true 4wd. 

Mind you, I still carry Maxtrax and have the Warn 9000lb winch as back up! Cheers

P.S NOT my car, but fairly well stuck!

9AD3E6C8-A5AD-4AD5-A85B-6980DAC930A2.png



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Thanks Barney for bypassing all the angst. I doubt there is any exact demarcation point. You can have a 4x4 in ute or SUV, or 2x4 in both as well.

My interpretation is that SUV has a rear internal space accessible from inside while a ute does not. But of course, that makes a LC200 an SUV. And if I think of a 4WD I don't think of SUV although it often has that feature. The SUV can do offroad but the ute will typically do better.

Not an ideal demarcation. Maybe Eaglemax should post examples of the vehicles he was thinking of and used to quote the economy figures.

 



-- Edited by Are We Lost on Saturday 23rd of September 2023 04:52:32 PM

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Are We Lost wrote:

My interpretation is that SUV has a rear internal space accessible from inside while a ute does not. 


 Our Land Rover SUV we generally sleep in the back as we are too lazy to put the tent up. Not possible to lie straight at night in a ute.



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Are We Lost wrote:

Thanks Barney for bypassing all the angst. I doubt there is any exact demarcation point. You can have a 4x4 in ute or SUV, or 2x4 in both as well.

My interpretation is that SUV has a rear internal space accessible from inside while a ute does not. But of course, that makes a LC200 an SUV. And if I think of a 4WD I don't think of SUV although it often has that feature. The SUV can do offroad but the ute will typically do better.

Not an ideal demarcation. Maybe Eaglemax should post examples of the vehicles he was thinking of and used to quote the economy figures.

 



-- Edited by Are We Lost on Saturday 23rd of September 2023 04:52:32 PM


 The "SUV" that I refer to for economy is DIESEL vehicles like-  VW Tiguan, Kia Sportage, Sorrento, Hyundai Tucson, Mitsubishi Hylander, Ford Territory. Primarily cars (not utes) that have a higher ground clearance than sedans, AWD preferable that make ideal tugs for under 2000kg (or more like in the case of the Territory). The figures I've used is from the Kia Sportage AWD diesel 8 speed torque converter Automatic. weight around 1700kg.  Car of the year think 2022, economy not towing as low as 5.6 L/100kms (yes its easily achievable) but 100kph flat ground freeway 6.3 is usual. Towing 1600kg ATM Jurgens J1901 Sungazer  it gets 11.5-13 L/100kms. What is relevant is the van has ensuite so is more than a good trade down for those that have larger vans with ensuite. Thats the theme of the post remember AWL?

 

Hyundai Tucson has the same running gear so same economy. I did own a diesel Tiguan auto and that was thirstier - 7.4 not towing. 

SUV's have their place just like 4X4. BTW I've owned 4X4 and yes it isnt my preference as 1/ I tow light and 2/ I like spending the cash on other things. I'm not telling people they should not have their large rigs. Thought I made that clear but some are cherry picking the OP



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I am quite happy with my 3 liter 4x4 MUX and Jurgens Lunagazer, 21 ft, 2200 kg ATM and has ensuite.

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Eaglemax wrote:

 You want to tow a 23ft plus caravan and get 18-25 L/100kms then thats your choice and you have a right to that choice. However many people are downsizing in tug to a SUV and caravan to something the SUV can tow. Every time you refill your tank of diesel it's costing you. If for example your 4x4 has a 180L fuel tank, meaning it should be able to travel 1650km per full tank.  that is around 11 L/100kms (not bad for a 4x4 not towing to be honest.) however it is way off the 6L/100km to 7L/100kms in a diesel SUV . Then you add on your caravan and get 18L/100km which is far off the 11-12 L/100km you get from an SUV towing 1500 to 1800 kg.

The end result is when you fill up your 4x4 from empty it will cost around $253 not towing (1000km) or $400 for (1000km) towing. Compare to that SUV at  $132 for 1000km not towing... or  1000kms towing $253.  The SUV gets around the same economy towing that the 4x4 gets not towing in approximate terms.

Let's say the average person drives 5000kms towing and 10,000kms not towing per year. 4x4 you'd pay $1265 not towing in fuel and $4,000 towing = $5265 .  The SUV is $660 plus $2530 towing = $3190.  difference?  $2075 per year. . Let's not forget that the 4x4 costs over 3 years servicing at $2250  SUV $1100 often on fixed price. So after 3 years the 4x4 will cost you $7475 more than an SUV to run.

You want to pay that extra then thats ok, many people are enjoying their lives running a SUV diesel with a smaller caravan and saving that money which, the savings are important to them.

For self funded retirees or pensioners the SUV AWD and lighter caravan might be the answer in these tough financial times if you remain on the black top or non extreme conditions. 

Eaglemax, In your second paragraph, you are comparing a 4x4 with a SUV.

You are giving figures for not towing per 1000km, and for towing per 1000km,for each vehicle.

But you don't tell us which you vehicles you are comparing against each other.

Are we comparing apples with apples,or apples with oranges?




-- Edited by Eaglemax on Friday 22nd of September 2023 06:01:35 PM


 



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BarneyBDB wrote:

I am quite happy with my 3 litre MUX and Jurgens Lunagazer, 21 ft, 2200 kg ATM and has ensuite.


 The MUX is a great little car for safely towing up to about a 2800kg ATM van. Tops.

The 3500kg tow rating is LaLa Land stuff, assuming PIG trailer, with the main problems being low GVM and short wheelbase.

Your 2200kg van seems a perfect fit for your car! Well done. Cheers



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Plain Truth wrote:
Eaglemax wrote:

 

Are we comparing apples with apples,or apples with oranges?

I would throw Pomegranates, Star Fruit, Jack Fruit and Onions in with that mix. The only thing clear to me is the Kia bias....




-- Edited by Eaglemax on Friday 22nd of September 2023 06:01:35 PM


 


 



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Why is quoting so hard on this forum??

What I said was ..I would throw Pomegranates, Star Fruit, Jack Fruit and Onions in with that mix. The only thing clear to me is the Kia bias....



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BarneyBDB wrote:

Why is quoting so hard on this forum??

What I said was ..I would throw Pomegranates, Star Fruit, Jack Fruit and Onions in with that mix. The only thing clear to me is the Kia bias....

Answer: Don't type here above the line.


 TYPE HERE.



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When it comes to SUV economy Kia Sportage GTline diesel... nothing compares nor... nah can't say it LOL Show me someone not biased on their tug choice. I can live with 6L/100km. Seeing as my last car Hyundai i30 diesel manual drank a little more.

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All good points made for different reasons. Here is another view.
Some can afford two vehicle, a tow vehicle and a run around. We are waiting
till one of us is old enough to qualify for free registration on one vehicle before
we look at a second. So therefore we only have one. This happens to be a 200
series Toyota Landcruiser. Around town it is returning mid 11/100. On the road
we get this down to 10/100 especially in cold winter. All this is NOT towing.
Given the latest increase in fuel prices, purchase price aside, if you were to
own an EV (as a run around) and qualify for free registration, all you need is
a decent solar panel system on your roof, some management (charge the car
during daylight hours) and you have free motoring and laughing at ever increasing
fuel prices. Insurance is a bout the same, no service to speak of.
How good is that.

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"Not possible to lie straight at night in a ute."

Many of our pollys would have no prob;em with that, lie anywhere anytime

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deverall11 wrote:

All good points made for different reasons. Here is another view.
Some can afford two vehicle, a tow vehicle and a run around. We are waiting
till one of us is old enough to qualify for free registration on one vehicle before
we look at a second. So therefore we only have one. This happens to be a 200
series Toyota Landcruiser. Around town it is returning mid 11/100. On the road
we get this down to 10/100 especially in cold winter. All this is NOT towing.
Given the latest increase in fuel prices, purchase price aside, if you were to
own an EV (as a run around) and qualify for free registration, all you need is
a decent solar panel system on your roof, some management (charge the car
during daylight hours) and you have free motoring and laughing at ever increasing
fuel prices. Insurance is a bout the same, no service to speak of.
How good is that.


 I get where you are going because we have two pensioner regoes and the second rego is for the toy. In the pic its hitched to our second homebuild now sold.

I'm not opposed to EV but I thinks its still early days. 5 years or so and the technology will advance far beyond now.

 

So the restriction as I see it now is- battery replacement cost. From what I've read batteries at 7 years old deplete approx down to 70%. Around that time a buyer of such a car wont look at it as they know thy will need to replace those batteries within a couple of years. How much? Well that depends on the make, how large they are etc. But I like your thinking.

We live in a regional area and have 6.7kw on the roof. All electric and we just got our last winter bill of $140, now its likely to go down to $70 in summer (per month)



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Eaglemax wrote:

We live in a regional area and have 6.7kw on the roof. All electric and we just got our last winter bill of $140, now its likely to go down to $70 in summer (per month)


 Interesting. You must be using massive amounts of electricity. When I was selling Solar in NSW I cut one customer's bill from $4000/year to under $600/year. He has a big workshop on his property, with welders, lathes, grinders etc etc and his wife loves the AC.

Wuth Solar you MUST use good gear, as I illustrated to a chap who had 6kw on his house, but still was getting huge bills. After I replaced his existing 6kw gear with a good 6kw system he had no bill, and got money back. 

With Solar you should have your Hot Water on the main meter,(T11?)  with a timer so it heats water straight from the sun during the day, rather than at night, and try to do as many things as possible during the day. Enough for now. Cheers

 

This is result of GOOD 6kw system on my house at only 6 cents feed-in tariff.

As can be seen, the 6kw system was EXPORTING over 28kw/day. Most houses use much less than 28kw/day.

Inverter output late afternoon shows 38.6kw for the day.

481DC4DB-E31C-45BA-945A-8894E0C80193.png

 

1E61D1AE-3AF3-4FF0-AD98-9073C1CCB2F8.jpeg

 



-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 24th of September 2023 08:27:47 PM



-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 24th of September 2023 08:31:01 PM

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yobarr wrote:
Eaglemax wrote:

We live in a regional area and have 6.7kw on the roof. All electric and we just got our last winter bill of $140, now its likely to go down to $70 in summer (per month)


 Interesting. You must be using massive amounts of electricity. When I was selling Solar in NSW I cut one customer's bill from $4000/year to under $600/year. He has a big workshop on his property, with welders, lathes, grinders etc etc and his wife loves the AC.

Wuth Solar you MUST use good gear, as I illustrated to a chap who had 6kw on his house, but still was getting huge bills. After I replaced his existing 6kw gear with a good 6kw system he had no bill, and got money back. 

With Solar you should have your Hot Water on the main meter,(T11?)  with a timer so it heats water straight from the sun during the day, rather than at night, and try to do as many things as possible during the day. Enough for now. Cheers

 ....



-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 24th of September 2023 08:27:47 PM



-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 24th of September 2023 08:31:01 PM


 Might I say thankyou.  I've got a Hager timer and a quick look at how it is read and adjusted on YouTube I've now adjusted the HWS to turn on at 10am and off at 6PM.  I'll monitor the difference by our provider app and hopefully see some change in power usage. What a friendly post Yobarr. Thankyou.  



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Eaglemax wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Eaglemax wrote:

We live in a regional area and have 6.7kw on the roof. All electric and we just got our last winter bill of $140, now its likely to go down to $70 in summer (per month)


 Interesting. You must be using massive amounts of electricity. When I was selling Solar in NSW I cut one customer's bill from $4000/year to under $600/year. He has a big workshop on his property, with welders, lathes, grinders etc etc and his wife loves the AC.

Wuth Solar you MUST use good gear, as I illustrated to a chap who had 6kw on his house, but still was getting huge bills. After I replaced his existing 6kw gear with a good 6kw system he had no bill, and got money back. 

With Solar you should have your Hot Water on the main meter,(T11?)  with a timer so it heats water straight from the sun during the day, rather than at night, and try to do as many things as possible during the day. Enough for now. Cheers


 Might I say thankyou.  I've got a Hager timer and a quick look at how it is read and adjusted on YouTube I've now adjusted the HWS to turn on at 10am and off at 6PM.  I'll monitor the difference by our provider app and hopefully see some change in power usage. What a friendly post Yobarr. Thankyou.  


 That will work only if you have the Hot Water on the main meter. (T11?)

It will be of no benefit if the manufactured electricity is first being exported from your home, at 6 cents (or whatever the FIT is) ,and then bought back at 35 cents. (Or whatever your current rate is).

Produced electricity must be used before it is exported.Cheers

 



-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 25th of September 2023 12:03:00 PM

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