Global sales of electric passenger vehicles increased significantly in 2022

Mein · Senior Member

Global sales of electric passenger vehicles increased significantly in 2022

deverall11 · Guru

Good post Mein.
You (as in the uneducated public) can resist as much as you like and put forward all sorts of negative
arguments about EVs and so on.
Reality as per previous post, the uptake of EVs is increasing. I see a lot more EVs on the road then
I imagined.
Yes price of EVs in Australia is prohibitively expensive but so is a new 300 series Landcruiser at $150K.
And yes, the infrastructure to support these is lagging behind. There is a valid reason why but it would
breach forum rules for me to state what it is. Hint: it's got to do with 10 years of inaction and denial.

Xyz · Veteran Member

That last statement by devreall11, is so so true, 10yrs of inaction and denial.
Yes there are, and will continue to be, teething problems with the change obver to EVs, but it is happening and you just have to roll with it.
Bring it on biggrin
Ian

Plain Truth · Guru

Xyz wrote:
That last statement by devreall11, is so so true, 10yrs of inaction and denial.
Yes there are, and will continue to be, teething problems with the change obver to EVs, but it is happening and you just have to roll with it.
Bring it on
Ian

So Ian,what EV do you drive?

deverall11 · Guru

Alan, Ian is probably in the same position as I am. Due to 10 years of inaction and denial,
we are effectively behind the eight ball in a number of areas.
EVs are expensive to purchase and the infrastructure is lagging behind. I would've bought
an EV if they weren't so expensive ATM.
Ask that question again in 10 years.
Personally we are self funded retirees on $50k pa income.

Cuppa · Guru

deverall11 wrote:

Ask that question again in 10 years.

I wish I were 10 years younger (don't we all?). Driving the remote Munja Track in the Kimberley my wife & I agreed how much the wonderful experience we were having would be improved by having a 'silent' car.

Plain Truth · Guru

deverall11 wrote:
Alan, Ian is probably in the same position as I am. Due to 10 years of inaction and denial,
we are effectively behind the eight ball in a number of areas.
EVs are expensive to purchase and the infrastructure is lagging behind. I would've bought
an EV if they weren't so expensive ATM.
Ask that question again in 10 years.
Personally we are self funded retirees on $50k pa income.

So you are pushing the 10 yrs of inaction and denial for your reason for not buying an EV.

It seems you people" talk the talk,but can't walk the walk" .What are you waiting for someone subsidies your EV.

Don't cry poor,you get more than we do.So how can we buy an EV.

Plain Truth · Guru

Cuppa wrote:
deverall11 wrote:

Ask that question again in 10 years.

I wish I were 10 years younger (don't we all?). Driving the remote Munja Track in the Kimberley my wife & I agreed how much the wonderful experience we were having would be improved by having a 'silent' car.

Cuppa he said'" ask that question in the future" not in the past .Twisting posts again.Bells ring when you post

Cuppa · Guru

Plain Truth wrote:
Cuppa wrote:
deverall11 wrote:

Ask that question again in 10 years.

I wish I were 10 years younger (don't we all?). Driving the remote Munja Track in the Kimberley my wife & I agreed how much the wonderful experience we were having would be improved by having a 'silent' car.
Cuppa he said'" ask that question in the future" not in the past .Twisting posts again.Bells ring when you post

Oh give it rest PT.

Simply ..... If I were 10 years younger there is a reasonable chance that in 10 years from now I might still be young enough to take advantage of the sort of vehicle I was dreaming about.

If you continue to hear bells ringing perhaps you should consider tinnitus!

Xyz · Veteran Member

Plain Truth wrote:
Xyz wrote:
That last statement by devreall11, is so so true, 10yrs of inaction and denial.
Yes there are, and will continue to be, teething problems with the change obver to EVs, but it is happening and you just have to roll with it.
Bring it on
Ian
So Ian,what EV do you drive?

Not quite sure what that has to due with this, but, at this stage none.

We have a Discovery 4 for towing, a Mazda CX5 for around town, our next vehicle WILL be an EV to replace the Mazda.

It is all about timing, I don't change my cars like my undies, but at this stage my next vehicle WILL be an EV.

PT, take your head out of the sand mate, except that , the last 10yrs we had a gov.....t that were inactive in the EV, climate change debate, full stop. The incentives to buy EVs are getting better but we're 10yrs behind the times, thanks Mr M.(Jerk)

Any problems with that, ??

Ian

-- Edited by Xyz on Sunday 5th of March 2023 07:58:34 PM

Plain Truth · Guru

Xyz wrote:
Plain Truth wrote:
Xyz wrote:
That last statement by devreall11, is so so true, 10yrs of inaction and denial.
Yes there are, and will continue to be, teething problems with the change obver to EVs, but it is happening and you just have to roll with it.
Bring it on
Ian
So Ian,what EV do you drive?
Not quite sure what that has to due with this, but, at this stage none.
We have a Discovery 4 for towing, a Mazda CX5 for around town, our next vehicle WILL be an EV to replace the Mazda.
It is all about timing, I don't change my cars like my undies, but at this stage my next vehicle WILL be an EV.
PT, take your head out of the sand mate, except that , the last 10yrs we had a gov.....t that were inactive in the EV, climate change debate, full stop. The incentives to buy EVs are getting better but we're 10yrs behind the times, thanks Mr M.(Jerk)
Any problems with that, ??
Ian

-- Edited by Xyz on Sunday 5th of March 2023 07:58:34 PM

Ian,your argument is weak if you name call

Plain Truth · Guru

Cuppa wrote:
Plain Truth wrote:
Cuppa wrote:
deverall11 wrote:

Ask that question again in 10 years.

I wish I were 10 years younger (don't we all?). Driving the remote Munja Track in the Kimberley my wife & I agreed how much the wonderful experience we were having would be improved by having a 'silent' car.
Cuppa he said'" ask that question in the future" not in the past .Twisting posts again.Bells ring when you post
Oh give it rest PT.
Simply ..... If I were 10 years younger there is a reasonable chance that in 10 years from now I might still be young enough to take advantage of the sort of vehicle I was dreaming about.

If you continue to hear bells ringing perhaps you should consider tinnitus!

Only happens with you.

Cuppa · Guru

Plain Truth wrote:
Cuppa wrote:
Plain Truth wrote:
Cuppa wrote:
deverall11 wrote:

Ask that question again in 10 years.

I wish I were 10 years younger (don't we all?). Driving the remote Munja Track in the Kimberley my wife & I agreed how much the wonderful experience we were having would be improved by having a 'silent' car.
Cuppa he said'" ask that question in the future" not in the past .Twisting posts again.Bells ring when you post
Oh give it rest PT.
Simply ..... If I were 10 years younger there is a reasonable chance that in 10 years from now I might still be young enough to take advantage of the sort of vehicle I was dreaming about.

If you continue to hear bells ringing perhaps you should consider tinnitus!
Only happens with you.

'Cuppa induced tinnitus' - you should see a doctor PT. The new diagnosis could make him/her famous! Ha ha. Seriously if as you say there is any twisting here it's in your head.

How you could read anything sinister into what I wrote is beyond me - unless you have convinced yourself to expect it. If so that's not tinnitus!

Xyz · Veteran Member

Plain Truth wrote:
Xyz wrote:
Plain Truth wrote:
Xyz wrote:
That last statement by devreall11, is so so true, 10yrs of inaction and denial.
Yes there are, and will continue to be, teething problems with the change obver to EVs, but it is happening and you just have to roll with it.
Bring it on
Ian
So Ian,what EV do you drive?
Not quite sure what that has to due with this, but, at this stage none.
We have a Discovery 4 for towing, a Mazda CX5 for around town, our next vehicle WILL be an EV to replace the Mazda.
It is all about timing, I don't change my cars like my undies, but at this stage my next vehicle WILL be an EV.
PT, take your head out of the sand mate, except that , the last 10yrs we had a gov.....t that were inactive in the EV, climate change debate, full stop. The incentives to buy EVs are getting better but we're 10yrs behind the times, thanks Mr M.(Jerk)
Any problems with that, ??
Ian

-- Edited by Xyz on Sunday 5th of March 2023 07:58:34 PM
Ian,your argument is weak if you name call

So what are YOU saying, I am confused

Ian confuse

smwhiskey · Senior Member

deverall11 wrote:
Good post Mein.
You (as in the uneducated public) can resist as much as you like and put forward all sorts of negative
arguments about EVs and so on.
Reality as per previous post, the uptake of EVs is increasing. I see a lot more EVs on the road then
I imagined.

Reality is that Pricing is still an major issue for many households, Charging is still an issue, and Range is still an issue. Having an EV is great if you live in a place like smallish place like Singapore where travel distances are short and it seems there are recharging points on every other corner. Live in the outer suburbs of Sydney/Brisbane or Melbourne and you may find it a completely different proposition.

Every car I've ever bought has been bought based on a list of criteria. Usage requirements, Functionality, price and colour(for the wife).

And as such, my reality is that, right here, right now an EV (regardless of colour) simply doesn't meet my current needs or my needs for the next 5-10 years.

And I dislike the insinuation that I'm "uneducated" because I choose not to jump on the EV bandwagon.

Simon

Cuppa · Guru

smwhiskey wrote:
Reality is that Pricing is still an major issue for many households, Charging is still an issue, and Range is still an issue. Having an EV is great if you live in a place like smallish place like Singapore where travel distances are short and it seems there are recharging points on every other corner. Live in the outer suburbs of Sydney/Brisbane or Melbourne and you may find it a completely different proposition.
Every car I've ever bought has been bought based on a list of criteria. Usage requirements, Functionality, price and colour(for the wife).
And as such, my reality is that, right here, right now an EV (regardless of colour) simply doesn't meet my current needs or my needs for the next 5-10 years.
And I dislike the insinuation that I'm "uneducated" because I choose not to jump on the EV bandwagon.
Simon
____________________
The way I read the post you were responding to & your response to it, I don't think that your decision not to buy one at the moment for the reasons you give is uneducated, in fact quite the opposite. I think the insinuation was that some people are anti EV, because they are uneducated about them or the need for the move away from fossil fuel. Resistance to change stuff which happens when any change is occurring. Situation normal.
I think that many of us are in favour of the benefits of changing the way we get around using fossil fuels but are not yet ready to step up to the plate because we want to continue living as we do now.
I'll certainly put my hand up to that. I want to continue our adopted remote travel lifestyle & that until there are EV's with the carrying capacity & range which allow that, I will wait until there are before I buy, assuming that when there are I will be able to afford one. Not being ready to make the change does not equate to being critical of the changes that are occurring, very much not so in my case. I suspect that a local runaround EV will be part of my life long before a cross-desert EV tourer is. I also think it quite possible that fossil fuel pricing will make that sort of travel no longer possible for me, before I am ready to give it up. Arguing in favour of EV's is cutting my own throat in that regard, but I'm not selfish & know it is the right thing to do. So be it. We are currently considering the purchase of a diesel truck based camper which if we buy it will cost more than many EV's, because there are no EV's which can do what it can do. We only have so many more years of travel in us (hopefully) & know that such a purchase will be one that we'll never get our money back on, because in 10 years time it's likely that no-one will be able to afford the fuel to run it. That's our choice, & that's as it should be. Very different to arguing that EV's are terrible & we should stick with the old technology.
I can live with that, confident that a) I am in favour of the change & will do so as soon as I can & b) Even though I continue to travel with a dirty diesel vehicle, that my overall carbon footprint is far less than the average home-based power consumer. I could be criticised for that & to some extent it would be warranted if it were coming from those who have earned the right by having already made the changes. From anyone else it is no more than a self protecting (against change) attack, which carries no weight. I don't need those people accusing me of the hypocrisy I already know I am living with.
Bottom line is that if what I need in terms of an EV were available now & I could afford it, I'd buy one today. In the meantime I'll support any moves to bring that time closer as quickly as possible.

-- Edited by Cuppa on Monday 6th of March 2023 03:36:44 PM

mixo · Senior Member

EV's are great for city driving today. You would be silly(in my opinion) if you buy an ICE car in the next few years for city/urban driving.

Once they figure out how to make a landcruiser/patrol go 1000km towing a 3.5 ton caravan I might jump on the bandwagon.

I say Bring on Electric cars, in 10 years time we will be singing another tune!

mixo

RickJ · Senior Member

EVs are new and advancing technology.

They will improve as time gives developers areas to improve the technology.

As quoted above 0.78% in Aus is far from overwhelming.
Because Australia is nothing like the most of the rest of the world we are very foolish in following them. We are foolish in listening to the *snake oil* salesmen who along with the government are relentlessly trying to convince us all to rush out and buy our first EV.

Now before the EV pundits who are now over populating this forum jump up and down, get off their high horses and prepare for another war of words, I want to point out that I am not against the technology at all. In fact I am all for it.

My thoughts are is that very few have considered the demographics of our own country and are prepared to realise that in their current form and with current infrastructure, we just cant support this new technology and at the same time expect its use to work without problems. Dare not mention that we need to charge these vehicles with coal fired power stations.

We could easily support this technology with a majority if we (Australians) forget what is being forced upon us by multi billionaire manufacturers who are building these cars to suit a world and predominately an Asian and European market and build EV cars that will be more suited to our joining the EV rush by having cars that will work in Australia.
From personal observations 300 klms range seems to be a fair expected battery range.
Based on this why should we be forced to buy medium sized luxury vehicles which are really unnecessary for practical use in our country.
Why dont we as a country build vehicles more suited.

We could easily have a new industry that builds cars to provide economical transport buy building work and shopping commuters as well as local delivery and service vehicles.
These vehicles do not need to have the enth degree of luxury and every accessory known to the modern motorist.

These vehicles need to be safe, light in weight and practical. You know, just like cars were in days gone by.

These vehicles need to have a planned installation of charging facilities based on solar not coal fired power stations. The charging of these vehicles should not be based on plugging into existing power point but have their own autonomous charging systems.

The price difference between the cheaper car and the current exorbitant prices could be directed toward owner / operator provided infrastructure to charge their own vehicles.
This system could be easily introduced to couriers and service fleets and then the technology could filter down to private people with simple solar charging at home.

These initial vehicles wont suit long distance use nor will they suit the caravanner or the 4wder.

The approach of entering the world of this new technology based on our need in Aus and not the pipe dream of someone from Europe will go a long way toward general acceptance.

The current *gung ho* approach has many in doubt and many worried as to how this will all work or how it will all fail in a country as large and as remote as Australia.

-- Edited by RickJ on Tuesday 7th of March 2023 10:52:14 AM

yobarr · Guru

RickJ wrote:
As quoted above 0.78% in Australia is far from overwhelming.
Because Australia is nothing like the most of the rest of the world we are very foolish in following them. We are foolish in listening to the *snake oil* salesmen who along with the government are relentlessly trying to convince us all to rush out and buy our first EV.

Now before the EV pundits who are now over populating this forum jump up and down, get off their high horses and prepare for another war of words, I want to point out that I am not against the technology at all. In fact I am all for it.

My thoughts are is that very few have considered the demographics of our own country and are prepared to realise that in their current form and with current infrastructure, we just cant support this new technology and at the same time expect its use to work without problems. Dare not mention that we need to charge these vehicles with coal fired power stations.

****** ******* ************* *********** ********** *********** ************ ********* ************ ***********

Great post Richard, but probably too much logic for many to comprehend?
People are easily confused by statisics such as the 0.78% of total passenger vehicle sales" quoted.
This means that of 128 such vehicles sold, 1 (ONE) was an EV . Hardly a breath-taking statistic?
BUT next year, if that figure increased to 1.56%, (a staggering 1 vehicle in 64) we no doubt would see highlighted headlines such as 'sales of EVs have DOUBLED', and all the sheep would say 'Baaa' .
Brings to mind an old adage that says "You can fool SOME of the people ALL of the time, and ALL of the people SOME of the time".
Although not 100% of people seem to have fallen for what is no more than a con-job of unrivalled proportions, those who have seem to outnumber those amongst us who can think logically, and understand that such events have been a cyclical natural occurrence for many millions of years (Meggaannums?).
And where is all the power going to come from to recharge these vehicles? Probably coal fired power stations,.
BUT we're closing those down aren't we? Derrrr!
And the costs of a new battery are astronomical. Cheers

P.S Been conned. Will this fella be the first of many millions to realise this?

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 7th of March 2023 02:52:44 PM

Cuppa · Guru

It may surprise you Rick but I agree with much in your post
Yobarr's contribution is what it is - poking a stick.

deverall11 · Guru

Cuppa wrote:
It may surprise you Rick but I agree with much in your post
Yobarr's contribution is what it is - poking a stick.

Guess it's an alternative to discussing rear axle loadings, his pet subject or is

it an obsession???

yobarr · Guru

deverall11 wrote:
Cuppa wrote:
It may surprise you Rick but I agree with much in your post
Yobarr's contribution is what it is - poking a stick.
Guess it's an alternative to discussing rear axle loadings, his pet subject or is
it an obsession???

To put your mind at ease I will advise that rear axle loading limitations are, without doubt, the most misunderstood of all weight issues. Very few people have any understanding of this, but by regularly raising the issue I am trying to help these people. There is no "obsession" on my part, and it is impossible to raise the topic too often, as always there will be "newbies" joining us, as well as current members taking an interest. Those who wish to continue with their heads in the sand can do so, but I have found that rote learning works well. If you have no interest in learning there is no obligation to read my posts. Hope this puts your mind at ease. Cheers

Craig1 · Guru

biggrin biggrin 12 times 11 is only 131?

deverall11 · Guru

Yobarr, perhaps you may care to enlighten us on how is it that thousands
of LC200 owners have towed 3.5t caravans with an unmodified vehicle and
have lived to tell the tale.
Do you honestly, hand on heart, think that the boffins at Toyota would release
a vehicle that had a 3.5t nominal towing capacity that was unsafe?
You are probably the only person in Australia who displays such an interest
in axle loading to the point where one may conclude it is an obsession. Or maybe
this could be worse - is it a fetish?????

yobarr · Guru

deverall11 wrote:
Yobarr, perhaps you may care to enlighten us on how is it that thousands
of LC200 owners have towed 3.5t caravans with an unmodified vehicle and
have lived to tell the tale.
Do you honestly, hand on heart, think that the boffins at Toyota would release
a vehicle that had a 3.5t nominal towing capacity that was unsafe?
You are probably the only person in Australia who displays such an interest
in axle loading to the point where one may conclude it is an obsession. Or maybe
this could be worse - is it a fetish?????

It would seem that you have no understanding of how tow ratings are issued? Many times I have explained, in detail, how this is done.

Your mighty LC200 is thus given a 3500kg tow rating, but, under normal travelling circumstances, and with the generally accepted 10% towball weight you will never be able to tow 3500kg legally or safely as a PIG trailer.

When challenged about their claimed towing rates the manufacturers' "Out" is that the vehicle can indeed tow this weight, but only with a DOG trailer. Smoke and Mirrors.

WDH will not help if your van has ATM of 3500kg and the much vaunted 3850kg GVM upgrade is next to useless as it increases rear axle carrying capacity by a massive 50kg. Yes, thousands of dollars to gain a miserable 50kg. Great upgrade for touring but useless for towing.

All this has been extensively covered in the past so I can only assume that you've either forgotten the facts or you didn't actually read them initially. If you wish to actually learn please feel free to ask, but use of the Search facility should allow you to find any help needed. Cheers.

peter67 · Guru

Sounds like a pretty stupid idea to tow a 3.5 ton load behind an LC200 toyota vehicle that ONLY weighs 2635kgs, talk about the tail wagging the dog.

ps, don't give up Yobarr. Sometimes you need a larger caliber weapon to penetrate REALLY thick skulls.

Craig1 · Guru

Peter67, I think most LC200 would be getting close to their GVM-for vehicle- when towing, ie far more than the nominal tare weight you quote. so towards the 3300 approx, so closer to the mythical caravan of 3500.

deverall11 · Guru

peter67 wrote:
Sounds like a pretty stupid idea to tow a 3.5 ton load behind an LC200 toyota vehicle that ONLY weighs 2635kgs, talk about the tail wagging the dog.

ps, don't give up Yobarr. Sometimes you need a larger caliber weapon to penetrate REALLY thick skulls.

Don't know where you got 2635kgs but ours weight 3200kgs. Standard except for ARB bull bar.

yobarr · Guru

deverall11 wrote:
peter67 wrote:
Sounds like a pretty stupid idea to tow a 3.5 ton load behind an LC200 toyota vehicle that ONLY weighs 2635kgs, talk about the tail wagging the dog.

ps, don't give up Yobarr. Sometimes you need a larger caliber weapon to penetrate REALLY thick skulls.
Don't know where you got 2635kgs but ours weight 3200kgs. Standard except for ARB bull bar.

Perhaps you could explain how an LC200 weighs 3200kg? With a standard rear axle capacity of a miserable 1950kg, at 3200kg you've got 1250kg left for mthe front axle. Can't be done.

The fact that "thousands of LC200 owners have towed 3.5 ton with an unmodified vehicle" (your words) means nothing more than that thousands of LC200 owners have been travelling illegally and unsafely. "Just gotta drive to the conditions Mate". Rubbish. This "achievement" is the result of nothing more than good luck. Not negotiable.

An unmodified LC200 cannot safely tow much more than about 3000kg as a PIG trailer. The fact that "thousands" (your words) of owners have towed 3.5 ton shows that "thousands" of owners have no idea of weights or dynamics, and have been very lucky.Some of the loads I've seen on LC200s during my travels are waaaay beyond stupid. Cheers

P.S My interest in, and advice about, rear axle loadings is neither an "obsession" nor is it a "fetish", but simply a wish to help people to be both legal and safe with their weights.

The "Head in the sand" brigade is merely confirmation that Ignorance is Bliss.

Many times I have given detailed explanations of my figures, but it still seems that some cannot, do not or will not understand. Take your pick. As always, I'm happy to answer any sensible questions you may have. If you want to legally and safely tow a 3500kg van you need a bigger car than a LC200. Sorry. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 10th of March 2023 08:57:51 AM

Possum3 · Guru

deverall11 wrote:
Don't know where you got 2635kgs but ours weight 3200kgs. Standard except for ARB bull bar.

From Toyota specifications;

The 2021 Toyota LandCruiser LC200 GXL (4x4) is a four-wheel drive four-door wagon that was released to the Australian market on 01/09/2018 classified as a VDJ200R. The LandCruiser is regarded as an upper large SUV built in Japan with prices from a dealer starting at $113,600.

The LandCruiser is a four-wheel drive 4 door with 8 seats, powered by a 4.5L DIESEL TURBO V8 engine that has 200 kW of power (at 3400 rpm) and 650 Nm of torque (at 1600 rpm) via a Six-speed Automatic. Toyota claims the LandCruiser LC200 GXL (4x4) uses 9.5L/100km of Diesel in the combined city and highway cycle while putting out 250g of CO2. It has a 138L fuel tank, meaning it should be able to travel 1453km per full tank.

The LandCruiser measures 1905mm (75.0 inches) in height, 4950mm (194.9 inches) in length, 1970mm (77.6 inches) in width with a 2850mm (112.2 inches) wheelbase that brings about a total of 2700kg (5952.5 lbs) of unladen weight.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

If your vehicle weighs in at 3200kg there lays a problem; You have approximately 500kg of additional weight that must be reduced from your load capabilities. May I suggest ARB bull-bar 110kg, Tow-bar and fittings 60kg, 138kg diesel fuel, 2 X passengers 160kg,Tools 20kg, fridge - beer and lettuce 50kg.

I respectfully suggest that by the time you hook up a small caravan you will exceed you LC's legal carrying capacity.