Vans getting weighed in QLD

bobsa · Senior Member

Vans getting weighed in QLD

Mike Harding · Guru

I struggle to see how a slightly obscured number plate is a road safety issue. However I can full appreciate it may make automated camera recognition for, say, speeding, problematic.

gwb · Senior Member

We were pulled over at Woodford on Saturday and held on the main road for a couple of minutes. The policeman pulled us over just past the turnoff to the weighing area. He asked us if we were confident reversing back the 10 to 15 metres to enable us to turn up the road to get to the weighing area, we did that and then he came back to us and explained that the weighing area was full and sent us on our way. Luckily we had everything weighed about 9 weeks ago so we were very confident all was OK.

snap1946 · Senior Member

do they unhook the van when they weigh you

Possum3 · Guru

snap1946 wrote:
do they unhook the van when they weigh you

Not required; Note photo above - mobile weighing platforms are placed under all wheels.

Are We Lost · Guru

So they don't weight the disconnected van to determine ATM compliance? That fits with photos I have seen, including the above one, and what I had assumed would happen. But that conflicts with the wording of the article.

"GVM and ATM infringement notices were issued to several drivers"

Journalism error? Or maybe they check ATM if either GTM or GVM fail.

yobarr · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
So they don't weight the disconnected van to determine ATM compliance? That fits with photos I have seen, including the above one, and what I had assumed would happen. But that conflicts with the wording of the article.

"GVM and ATM infringement notices were issued to several drivers"

Journalism error? Or maybe they check ATM if either GTM or GVM fail.

Probably journalists reporting on things that they don't really understand, as often happens! Because overloading of the car's rear axle would likely be the most common issue with the vast majority of cars, followed by exceeding the car's GVM, there probably would be no need to disconnect the van unless the van's GTM reading was more than, say, 90% of ATM, just so ATM could be checked. Scales under all 8 wheels at once gives individual wheel weights and total weight on wheels, but does not give towball weight. To establish total weight of van (ATM?) the van would have to be resting on its wheels and its jockey wheel. Taking the weight on van's wheels, and then taking the weight on jockey wheel as a separate weighing is asking for inaccuracies, but we won't go there! Time restraints would likely preclude disconnecting the van unless excessive weights elsewhere raised suspicions. Great to see that PC finally is being proactive in getting a few of these irresponsible individuals (diplomacy?) off the road before they go RSup and find out too late that they're uninsured. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 1st of August 2022 11:23:49 PM

Gundog · Guru

Looking at the OP's photo, I have a couple of observations.

I wonder if the location being used is a prescribed weighing location.

It looks like one of the weighing infomation programs ran in Qld to assist the caravaners in compliance.

Because it appears to be an area selected is in a car park, if infringement notices were issued then more than likely they could be challenged in court.

? Truck Friendly Caravan Road Safety Program ?

Cupie · Guru

Gundog wrote:
Looking at the OP's photo, I have a couple of observations.
I wonder if the location being used is a prescribed weighing location.
It looks like one of the weighing infomation programs ran in Qld to assist the caravaners in compliance.
Because it appears to be an area selected is in a car park, if infringement notices were issued then more than likely they could be challenged in court.

? Truck Friendly Caravan Road Safety Program ?

Graham .. Could you please explain why any infringement notices could, more than likely, be challenged in court?

Possum3 · Guru

Cupie Wrote:
Graham .. Could you please explain why any infringement notices could, more than likely, be challenged in court?

Any infringement notice is able to be challenged in Court; A likely successful challenge may be that the area that the weighing was taking place was on substantially uneven ground.

That being said; I am aware that there are certain stretches of road within Qld that are designated to be used as check weigh stations and have been approved for such use.

Gundog · Guru

Possum3 wrote:
Cupie Wrote:
Graham .. Could you please explain why any infringement notices could, more than likely, be challenged in court?

Any infringement notice is able to be challenged in Court; A likely successful challenge may be that the area that the weighing was taking place was on substantially uneven ground.

That being said; I am aware that there are certain stretches of road within Qld that are designated to be used as check weigh stations and have been approved for such use.

Yes Possum you are correct, generally they have a concrete slab

Cupie · Guru

Thanks for that .. Seems reasonable ...

Ivan 01 · Guru

Gundog wrote:
Possum3 wrote:
Cupie Wrote:
Graham .. Could you please explain why any infringement notices could, more than likely, be challenged in court?

Any infringement notice is able to be challenged in Court; A likely successful challenge may be that the area that the weighing was taking place was on substantially uneven ground.

That being said; I am aware that there are certain stretches of road within Qld that are designated to be used as check weigh stations and have been approved for such use.
Yes Possum you are correct, generally they have a concrete slab

Yes.

I also note that the van that appears to be on the portable scales has been turning to the left to approach the scales.

This is not acceptable either as turning can produce loadings on tyres which can provide inaccurate readings.

While I am in full support of these checks I feel the authorities should get this right so nothing can be disputed.

Gundog · Guru

Ivan 01 wrote:

Yes.
I also note that the van that appears to be on the portable scales has been turning to the left to approach the scales.
This is not acceptable either as turning can produce loadings on tyres which can provide inaccurate readings.
While I am in full support of these checks I feel the authorities should get this right so nothing can be disputed.

If you look closely at the OP's picture, you can see the single axle van behind the one on the right is also on portable scales.

2 other people in yellow vest appear to be volunteers assisting with the the weighting process, the officers attending the the vehicle in the foregrounded are not police officers.

I don't know how bobsa acquired the photo and preceding text, is this a republication of another source maybe from Truck Friendly caravan road safety program.

Who is behind the TF crsp, what his agenda in tying a photo of different event to a police operation.

The Travelling Dillberries · Guru

snap1946 wrote:
do they unhook the van when they weigh you

Yes the towball weight is measured disconnected from car.

bobsa · Senior Member

Gundog wrote:
Ivan 01 wrote:

Yes.
I also note that the van that appears to be on the portable scales has been turning to the left to approach the scales.
This is not acceptable either as turning can produce loadings on tyres which can provide inaccurate readings.
While I am in full support of these checks I feel the authorities should get this right so nothing can be disputed.
If you look closely at the OP's picture, you can see the single axle van behind the one on the right is also on portable scales.
2 other people in yellow vest appear to be volunteers assisting with the the weighting process, the officers attending the the vehicle in the foregrounded are not police officers.
I don't know how bobsa acquired the photo and preceding text, is this a republication of another source maybe from Truck Friendly caravan road safety program.
Who is behind the TF crsp, what his agenda in tying a photo of different event to a police operation.

Gundog

it came to me via Face book, but it is current ,

You can go to the link at the top of my post and see the website , scroll down to the article

Bob

Gundog · Guru

Thanks Bob I did visit the Facebook page, there it is in all it glory.

What annoys me most, the person who I will not name, uses a photo from a totally different a caravan compliance and infomation program that has been ran for a number of years in SE Qld, and porports as Police and TMR operation. I did notice TMR officers on site assisting with the operation.

I wonder what the individuals agenda is because on the 18th July there is suggestion that he may have to pull the pin on his program. One must assume that this was a one man crusade who is hoping for sponsorship or a government grant to continue his endevors.

diggerop · Senior Member

What makes you think that the photo is from a different caravan compliance and information program?

Gundog · Guru

diggerop wrote:
What makes you think that the photo is from a different caravan compliance and information program?

If you backtrack through the entire thread you will see mine and others os the photo. I also checked the police and TMR websites no reference appears about caravan weighing.

FYI

https://www.caravanqld.com.au/ctiaq-section/weight-safety-inspections/

-- Edited by Gundog on Wednesday 3rd of August 2022 01:58:43 PM

diggerop · Senior Member

Which thread are do you mean? Ive read all of this one. Where do you reckon the photo was taken?

Gundog · Guru

diggerop wrote:
Which thread are do you mean? Ive read all of this one. Where do you reckon the photo was taken?

The photo was taken at Woodford Qld

bobsa · Senior Member

Thanks Gundog
I have checked back and you are correct in saying it is not from an official Police or TMR site.
Who is this Ken Wilson ?
Pisses me off that they can put a site together for just scare mongering
I am sorry folks, thought it was the real Mc coy
Bob

diggerop · Senior Member

Gundog wrote:
diggerop wrote:
Which thread are do you mean? Ive read all of this one. Where do you reckon the photo was taken?
The photo was taken at Woodford Qld

When was it taken?

diggerop · Senior Member

bobsa, Don't be sorry. It shows police weighing and checking vans, that's a good thing. Why does it have to come from an official site?

the rocket · Guru

Gundog wrote:
diggerop wrote:
Which thread are do you mean? Ive read all of this one. Where do you reckon the photo was taken?
The photo was taken at Woodford Qld

Looks to me like its opposite woodford showgrounds.

Gundog · Guru

the rocket wrote:
Gundog wrote:
diggerop wrote:
Which thread are do you mean? Ive read all of this one. Where do you reckon the photo was taken?
The photo was taken at Woodford Qld
Looks to me like its opposite woodford showgrounds.

That's the spot

Clarky 1 · Senior Member

I have just had a read through this topic and the attached Facebook page link.

Ken Wilson (who the hell is he anyway) suggests that licences might be required for towing a caravan although he provides so many variations it would be almost impossible to implement or police.

Amongst his plethora of excuses hes says that because the states are individually responsible for licensing then they would never agree and hence the huge sigh of relief from all those who cant and shouldnt be operating a caravan.
I truly wonder if he has ever done any research or enquiry as to how heavy vehicle licences are administered in Aus.

The heavy licence is a commonwealth license which then permits the uniform policing Australia wide of the heavy vehicle regulations.

Back in the day when we all decided to uniformly regulate heavy trucks and their operation it was decided that this was to be the case even though the states still issued licences they came under a blanket rule book.

Ken Wilsons argument that the states wont let this happen is somewhat a cop out as with heavy truck policing the federal govt suggested to the states that if they didnt comply then the federal funding of roads to that state may be affected.

This of course, is a very simple explanation of what happened as there was much consultation between all represented bodies to achieve the rule and regulations we have today in that industry.

Maybe Mr Wilson started out with good intentions but apparently is now asking for funding to continue on.
So, should we all open our purses and throw money at him so he can build his *lets weigh a caravan business* or should we have a recognised program to lobby state and federal governments for the correct and safe implementing of rules for caravans.

Increased safety can be achieved with caravans but the *its too hard or unpopular* attitude wont get it done and we will still have overloaded vans and unskilled drivers congo lining up and down our highways at every opportunity.

-- Edited by Clarky 1 on Thursday 4th of August 2022 09:54:54 AM

Gundog · Guru

Clarky 1 wrote:
I have just had a read through this topic and the attached Facebook page link.

Ken Wilson (who the hell is he anyway) suggests that licences might be required for towing a caravan although he provides so many variations it would be almost impossible to implement or police.

Amongst his plethora of excuses hes says that because the states are individually responsible for licensing then they would never agree and hence the huge sigh of relief from all those who cant and shouldnt be operating a caravan.
I truly wonder if he has ever done any research or enquiry as to how heavy vehicle licences are administered in Aus.

The heavy licence is a commonwealth license which then permits the uniform policing Australia wide of the heavy vehicle regulations.

Back in the day when we all decided to uniformly regulate heavy trucks and their operation it was decided that this was to be the case even though the states still issued licences they came under a blanket rule book.

Ken Wilsons argument that the states wont let this happen is somewhat a cop out as with heavy truck policing the federal govt suggested to the states that if they didnt comply then the federal funding of roads to that state may be affected.

This, of course is a very simple explanation of what happened as there was much consultation between all represented bodies to achieve the rule and regulations we have today in that industry.

Maybe Mr Wilson started out with good intentions but apparently is now asking for funding to continue on.
So, should we all open our purses and throw money at him so he can build his *lets weigh a caravan business* or should we have a recognised program to lobby state and federal governments for the correct and safe implementing of rules for caravans.

Increased safety can be achieved with caravans but the *its too hard or unpopular* attitude wont get it done and we will still have overloaded vans and unskilled drivers charging up and down our highways at every opportunity.

Clarky you are on the right track there, to have a towing endorsement would be a chore to implement, nolonger do many states have the will to bloat their licencing authority with testing personal, prefer to have training groups to do that task.

In saying that such an endorsement initally could be automatic for existing caravan owners abit like an RPL, I recall back in the mid 80's I was transfering my NT licence to SA when the new licence codes were beoming national, I lost heavy codes because I couldnt prove I had operated a heavy vehicle in the last 12 months, a couple of year later I got my heavy codes back.

I think the biggest bun fight would come from the trailer manufacturers and then state governments. What is the starting point every trailer or any trailer that has a GTM greater than X, X being the highly debated number.

I think this most likely the reluctance of governments to implement a towing endorsement.

Hitting the road · Senior Member

I reckon the push will eventually come from caravan insurance companies to have some sort of driver training in place for towing above certain weights....and potentially some sort of license endorsement as in the UK...maybe the cut off will be over 750kg where trailer brakes come in.
The increasing cost to insurers as too many drivers flip vans over with the resulting flow on of premium increases to van owners will see something being implemented.

It probably wasn't such a drama in the past when a van was pretty basic and could be repaired, as well as lower numbers, but now with all the bells and whistles and composite constructions, a single axle van can be worth over $100k, and it doesn't take a lot of structural damage to see the van being a write off for the insurer.

bristte · Veteran Member

A car license and the training required to get one doesn't stop people doing dangerous and stupid things in cars. The road toll attests to that. I can't see that a towing license will be any different. People with a towing license will still overload their vans. That's the main issue, isn't it, not how to drive the darn thing? More enforcement and an increased risk of getting caught hopefully will reduce the problem. The van and 4WD industry also has a role to play in education and more realistic tow limits.

Truck Friendly - caravan road safety program