deverall11 wrote:

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Had a policy when Turnbull was in charge. It had bi-partisan supoort.
What did they do? Got rid of Turnbull and shelved the policy.
Look at the mess we're in now.
Big thank you ScoMo and you mates

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 It appears that you and some others have great difficulty in sensibly discussing anything without bringing politics into it.

This is why politics are against rules on most public forums.

With politics there is always a * them and us*

In this country those numbers generally fall into the 50 / 50 split therefore no consensus will ever be achieved.

See the point??

https://reneweconomy.com.au/nem-watch/

Heres a link to the realtime power production and demand of electricty 

Craig1 wrote:

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A E M O  at last shows some intestianal fortitude and stops most of the b s that has been allowed to accumulate. Told energy providors to pull their heads in and get one with providing electricty and gas. I hope they stay with it.

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Ummmmm, nope!

AEMO has agreed to compensate the energy providers for their alleged losses.

In other words, the tax payer/consumer is still paying the energy providers what they asked for in the first place, because the state governments had refused to be extorted into paying.

Ivan 01 wrote:

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The point is you have no sensible input so you are resorting to turning the replies into a political argument.

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The fact is that Australia is an energy rich country whose resources have been grossly mismanaged by politicians on both sides. Politics is the root cause of our energy crisis. If the politicians had been able to agree on an energy policy, then the power producers would have been able to plan for the future. In addition to that, politicians on both sides failed to stand up to the energy companies and demand a secure gas supply to shield us from adverse economic events. 

dorian wrote:

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Ivan 01 wrote:

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The point is you have no sensible input so you are resorting to turning the replies into a political argument.

---

The fact is that Australia is an energy rich country whose resources have been grossly mismanaged by politicians on both sides. Politics is the root cause of our energy crisis. If the politicians had been able to agree on an energy policy, then the power producers would have been able to plan for the future. In addition to that, politicians on both sides failed to stand up to the energy companies and demand a secure gas supply to shield us from adverse economic events. 

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 I am in support basically of the AEMO if they do as they are directed. 

The energy providers have been mismanaged not only by fed govts as most state govts have had their snouts in the trough as well

My comment that you highlighted above is to point out that once again on here, a sensible discussion is so easily turned to a heated argument by stating good or bad of any political party. His input was a waste of his typing.

I would have thought a contributor of your calibre could discuss the topic without introducing the old political chestnut, but I see now that I was wrong.

Try to tell us about something caravanning or camping from your personal experiences next time.

Magnarc wrote:

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Once you sell off publicly owned entities that are essential to any country, you issue an invitation to Mr Greed to step in and, with him comes lack of proper maintenance, shortcuts in production , taking generators offline in Winter, (saves money) why? because profit is the main motivator of all private companies. It is my humble opinion that the powers that be should take back into public hands these essential utilities.

Who was in power when these decisions were taken is not relevant right now. It is what it is. How many times in the past, have parties of all political persuasions, had to sort out bad decisions taken by the previous lot? The cost of nationalisation might well be a high one, but the future benefits of having a secure energy grid, would surely outweigh that? The recent addition to the French coffers would have gone a long way to achieving this.

Just sayin.

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A great post Magnarc

 Such common sense from a forum member.

I dont think anyone can add any more to be more practical toward our looming power crisis.

Ivan 01 wrote:

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Back to the op.

Heading recklessly down the renewable track without any working example from others to follow has left us on the track to becoming a third world country with regard to having any base line power.

Any hiccup in supply from our base line sources leaves us extremely vulnerable.

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 Hmm IMHO and from experts in that field there is no shortage of power currently. Possibly not much excess to be fair but no shortage.

The hiccup currently has been caused by the privatised generators of all types 'gaming' the rules to maximise the returns. If they refuse to supply and AEMO orders them to supply then they can demand very large prices and negotiate later. The prices can be x100+ more than normal prices !! Any sensible person can see that is ripping us off and we consumers will pay more !

The renewable suppliers are doing it, just as are the base load suppliers. So why blame the renewables. The vunerabiity is caused by the rulemakers who should have set limits and planned for these occasions. but had their head in the sand. 

And ultimately we/us generally as someone put the ticks in the boxes to keep them in power. Possibly a change currently will help instead of bleating about renewables being the cause  They are the answer combined with storage. Hey just like most caravanners do !! 

jaahn    

-- Edited by Jaahn on Friday 17th of June 2022 10:32:45 AM

Gundog wrote:

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https://reneweconomy.com.au/nem-watch/

Heres a link to the realtime power production and demand of electricty 

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 I can't open that hypertext link. Could you please provide a summary?

P.S. I see that you've posted the image. Thank you.

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:

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Gundog wrote:

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https://reneweconomy.com.au/nem-watch/

Heres a link to the realtime power production and demand of electricty 

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 I can't open that hypertext link. Could you please provide a summary?

 

P.S. I see that you've posted the image. Thank you.

-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Friday 17th of June 2022 11:49:53 AM

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 Just cut and paste link into web browser, bookmark it and then anytime day or night you can see where power is bein dispatched 

Basically the colored bar is the amount of power being generated from it source Black/Brown Coal, Red Gas, Purple Diesel, Blue Hydro, Green Wind, orange/yellow Solar and the lighter purple is battery.

The Grey bar is the demand some of the bar will colored Blue is Hydro Pumping, Light Purple is Battery charging, I'm unsure what the Yellow its said to be Demand that AEMO cannot see.

Magnarc wrote:

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Once you sell off publicly owned entities that are essential to any country, you issue an invitation to Mr Greed to step in and, with him comes lack of proper maintenance, shortcuts in production , taking generators offline in Winter, (saves money) why? because profit is the main motivator of all private companies. It is my humble opinion that the powers that be should take back into public hands these essential utilities.

Who was in power when these decisions were taken is not relevant right now. It is what it is. How many times in the past, have parties of all political persuasions, had to sort out bad decisions taken by the previous lot? The cost of nationalisation might well be a high one, but the future benefits of having a secure energy grid, would surely outweigh that? The recent addition to the French coffers would have gone a long way to achieving this.

Just sayin.

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  So true.   An additional question/remark.   How come the whole planet is suffering exactly the same issues.  Not only with energy but everything.  Can't all be due to Russia and the Ukraine.  We need to secure all our resources for our own use.  

deverall11 wrote:

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Ivan 01 wrote:

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deverall11 wrote:

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Had a policy when Turnbull was in charge. It had bi-partisan supoort.
What did they do? Got rid of Turnbull and shelved the policy.
Look at the mess we're in now.
Big thank you ScoMo and you mates

---

 It appears that you and some others have great difficulty in sensibly discussing anything without bringing politics into it.

This is why politics are against rules on most public forums.

With politics there is always a * them and us*

In this country those numbers generally fall into the 50 / 50 split therefore no consensus will ever be achieved.

See the point??

---

 Just simply pointing out how we got here. See the point????? Actually in the last election it was more like 30/30/30 give or take. See that point.

BTW I do not lean towards one or the other. Politics or not, we have had a pack of self centred, self serving idiots running the country for the last

ten years. This is the mess we are in. See the point?

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 You've got a point there!!

Ian

msg wrote:

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www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-14/nt-water-licence-grants-unsustainable-fears-for-tourism-river/101146592

This is what we need to guard against. Bitter Springs. I first discovered of Bitter Springs in about 2012. Then I returned in 2018 and though it was still as magical it had become less natural and more contrived. The pool itself contained more algae and you couldn't see the bottom. Why can't the greedy exploiters leave natural wonders alone. Now they are talking of regulating the flow of the water through issuing water extraction licences and managing the water levels of the aquifers.. Fracking comes into it. More greed. science backed as well. Ha.! The water was flowing freely for hundreds of years without drying up. Outback towns like Walgett didn't have to beg people for bottled water, there was always plenty. Hmmm wonderful water management Hey?

So if you want to get a glimpse of what this beautiful place looked liked in its natural state you had better go quickly I fear it is all about to be lost to greed.

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 So what is this an attempted highjack of a thread about energy security, not another lefty rant.

Do you not understand that this rush to hog tie base load power in pursuit of highly suspect renewable power, that would need to at least increase the amount of wind, solar and batteries by more than 400% just to sustain day time consumption, the pursuit to zero is a folly for Australia.

msg wrote:

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Angry grumpy old men. I can do without them. If you think about it this thread refers to the fact that it is not only a base load power issue it is connected to all of Australia's natural resources. Regardless, the issue with base load power is GREEDY EXPLOITERS and how they want to switch to gas and fracking for gas is one of these.
Fracking for gas is destroying natural resources all over the country. Bitter Springs will be the next.

The problem is that these GREEDY EXPLOITERS have sold off our energy to the highest bidder from overseas (because these companies are owned by large overseas investors) with forward contracts and there is none left for domestic purposes.  They then are looking for additional resources to supply the domestic market no matter where they can find it.  Like Bitter Springs.  Just like everything else. Meat, fish, water.  Until we put AUSTRALIA first, we will end up with nothing and not even a big pile of money to compensate us. 

-- Edited by msg on Saturday 18th of June 2022 12:44:18 PM

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 The reduction of base load power has nothing to do with you perceived statement, the fact is we are loosing base load power by green tree hugging climate change collective desire to take Australia down a peg or two to appease the UN.

Micro grids in outback Australia predominatly run on diesel generators, where home solar system are not encouraged to connect to the mico grid because it causes problems.