Mercedes ML 350 Diesel  Toureg TD 3l V6  20ft Ranger 

Get one with air suspension so you don't have the mundane task of winding the caravan up & down for the towbar.

Whenarewethere wrote:

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Get one with air suspension so you don't have the mundane task of winding the caravan up & down for the towbar.

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 I agree, the rear of our Touareg goes up and down with the touch of a switch. It's fantastic for leveling the caravan if you don't want to unhook it for overnight stays and it makes unhitching very easy.

I cannot comment on a Touareg.
An acquaintance has a Mercedes ML 350. For a while, he was asking questions about vans, exploring ideas about towing with his vehicle.
However, before acquiring a van, he had an occasion to tow a large boat. During the trip with the boat, one of his vehicle's tyres failed. He had trouble getting a suitable tyre for that vehicle in the particular location, Murwillumbah, I believe. Not really beyond the blackstump, is it?

Depending on your intended travel locations, choice of vehicles can be influenced by the availability of parts and spares should the unfortunate event happen.

My mate has since purchased a motorhome.

yobarr wrote:

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Buzz Lightbulb wrote:

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yobarr wrote:

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keninnsw wrote:

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Mercedes ML 350 Diesel  Toureg TD 3l V6  20ft Ranger 

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 Both are great cars with very similar specs, except for the engines where the Mercedes has 190kw compared with the 150kw of the VW. However, this  is still more power than most of the popular twin-cab utes. Wheelbases are similar at just over 2900mm, and they tare at similar weights, the Merc being about 30kg heavier. GVMs (maximum allowed weight on wheels of car) are similar, at 2860kg for VW and 2950kg for Merc. CLAIMED towing capacity for VW is 3500kg but maximum  towball weight is only 280kg, so with the generally accepted towball weight for safe towing being 10% of ATM you won't get anywhere near 3500kg! The Merc claims 3265kg towing capacity, but strangely they do not list maximum towball weight or even a GCM. (Gross combination mass, or maximum allowed weight of car and van). Why is this,I wonder? Anyway, without getting too technical, if safety is of any concern always the weight on the wheels of the car should be at least 10% greater than the weight on the wheels of the van. Neither of these cars can safely tow more than about 3000kg as a PIG trailer (Caravan). If you would like more information on weights etc, please ask. You might also like to consider Stretch's suggestion of an Amarok which has a lot more tirque than does the Toureg. Good luck with your research! Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 15th of May 2022 02:20:42 PM

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 We have 2016 TDI V6 3l Touareg (note spelling). It is 180 kw not 150kw as stated by yobarr. The 150kw is the smaller Touareg.

 We tow a 17' caravan and never, ever ran out of power. The air suspension is fantastic. I've driven many different 4WD vehicles through work and I'll never own another without air suspension. Although powerful enough to tow up to 3T the limiting factor is the rear axle weight so that needs to be the major consideration.

 I have not owned a Mercedes so I can't comment on that.

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 Hi Buzz. Coincidentally, I'd just amended the spelling of "Touareg" in my script but I dont think we can change the thread title, can we? Thanks for correcting the power figure, if indeed Im wrong, but I simply looked up V6 Touareg specs and got the figures I quoted. It's all on the other computer, but later today I'll post the spec sheet that I accessed. Cheers

 

-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 15th of May 2022 05:04:26 PM

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 There are three Touaregs in that year. 180kw TDI, 150kw TDI and the petrol which I don't remember what its kW is, or maybe it's the petrol one that is 160kw. I do know the kW of my own car. 

It's important for the OP to realise that and preferably buy the more powerful TDI for towing.

I don't know about changing the title.

-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Monday 16th of May 2022 09:58:42 AM

hufnpuf wrote:

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watsea wrote:

Depending on your intended travel locations, choice of vehicles can be influenced by the availability of parts and spares should the unfortunate event happen.

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 My mechanic doesn't like my VW, he's a Toyota "fanboi".  That's one of the things he mentioned when recommending I get a Toyota.  (my vw is just a sedan, it's not for towing)

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 My mechanic said I should get a Toyota. I bought a Land Rover!

Whenarewethere wrote:

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hufnpuf wrote:

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watsea wrote:

Depending on your intended travel locations, choice of vehicles can be influenced by the availability of parts and spares should the unfortunate event happen.

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 My mechanic doesn't like my VW, he's a Toyota "fanboi".  That's one of the things he mentioned when recommending I get a Toyota.  (my vw is just a sedan, it's not for towing)

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 My mechanic said I should get a Toyota. I bought a Land Rover!

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 Deleted!

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:

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hufnpuf wrote:

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watsea wrote:

Depending on your intended travel locations, choice of vehicles can be influenced by the availability of parts and spares should the unfortunate event happen.

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 My mechanic doesn't like my VW, he's a Toyota "fanboi".  That's one of the things he mentioned when recommending I get a Toyota.  (my vw is just a sedan, it's not for towing)

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 My Touareg is for towing. We've towed will over 10,000km on one trip without a problem. 

 The OP asked about Mercedes and VWs. Not Toyotas. 

 180kW Touaregs will easily tow a caravan. Just watch your rear axle weight. The air suspension makes life luxurious.

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 Hmmm. Just analysed a few figures and the VW is not looking too flash but possibly better than the Merc. Car tares at around 2100kg(+/-) and has GVM of 2850kg, so load capacity of 750kg(+/-) on paper.  However, I researched the rear axle, as suggested by Buzz, and it is rated at a stupidly low 1470kg. If you put the maximum towball weight of 280kg onto the car you apply around 400kg to the car's rear axle, which means that the axle weight can be no more than 1070kg before you attach the van. Remember, this is with the car loaded, ready for travel. To the 2100kg(+/-) tare we must add fuel 80kg, passengers (x2) 150kg, towbar equipment (30kg?), luggage, tools etc etc and remember that you've already lost 120kg which was removed from front axle by the 280kg towball weight and transferred to the rear axle. Most of this added weight is over or near the rear axle. As suggested by Buzz, limited rear axle capacity on the car is the problem, meaning that if safety is of any concern the towing capacity with a PIG trailer (most vans) is 2800-2900kg absolute tops, although Vince tells that his Touareg was unsettled in crosswinds while towing only 2500kg. Weights are a nightmare, understood by few, so if you would like more help please ask. Cheers

Are We Lost wrote:

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Wow, just following on from what Yobarr pointed out, that low rear axle load of 1470kg would make it unsuitable for towing most of the popular mid to large vans. Yobar said 2800-2900 tops. I can't see how that would be viable.

With Tare of 2100, add two people, fuel and a toothbrush, so around 2300kg. Without knowing the actual front/rear axle loadings of the Toureg we can only make assumptions, but I suspect it's load carrying capacity would be severely limiting the towing capability. The main contributor to this is the leverage effect when the towball is attached. If the towball is 200kg, that puts around 300kg on the rear axle. Is there any spare capacity left to put anything else in the Touareg?

Then, if you care about the laden weight of the tow vehicle being more than what you are towing, maybe that has aleady been set.

Buzz, do you have weighbridge figures or specs that show the actual front and rear weights on the Touareg? Just looking at the design, my guess would be roughly equal at Tare.

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Hi Stephen. Bit busy for a while but I'll elaborate later. Just remember that 10% of the 2800-2900kg ATM goes onto the car as towball weight, leaving 2520-2610kg as GTM behind a car that has GVM 2850kg. Not too bad, but details later. My figures suggest around 400kg onto rear axle with 280kg towball weight. Cheers 

yobarr wrote:

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Are We Lost wrote:

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Wow, just following on from what Yobarr pointed out, that low rear axle load of 1470kg would make it unsuitable for towing most of the popular mid to large vans. Yobar said 2800-2900 tops. I can't see how that would be viable.

With Tare of 2100, add two people, fuel and a toothbrush, so around 2300kg. Without knowing the actual front/rear axle loadings of the Touareg we can only make assumptions, but I suspect it's load carrying capacity would be severely limiting the towing capability. The main contributor to this is the leverage effect when the towball is attached. If the towball is 200kg, that puts around 300kg on the rear axle. Is there any spare capacity left to put anything else in the Touareg?

Then, if you care about the laden weight of the tow vehicle being more than what you are towing, maybe that has aleady been set.

Buzz, do you have weighbridge figures or specs that show the actual front and rear weights on the Touareg? Just looking at the design, my guess would be roughly equal at Tare.

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 OK, I've now done a bit more research, and it seems that the Touareg has over 1000kg on its rear axle at tare. This being the case, to that 1000kg we add the 400kg applied by a 280kg towball weight, 80kg for fuel, 75kg for passengers (half of the 150kg because about half of their weight will be carried by the front axle) 30kg for towbar structure (conservative!) and we're already up well over 1500kg, BUT we still have no luggage, no tools, no spares. And apparently no hope. Seems that if safety is of any concern you're not going to be able to tow much more than about 2500kg as a PIG trailer, which is coincidentally the weight that Vince says he was towing when his vehicle was "a bit unsettled in crosswinds". These figures are a bit of an eye-opener,  which if they are correct, shows that not all that glitters is gold? Pity, as they're great cars. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 17th of May 2022 04:31:45 PM

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 We have to remember that there are plenty of 'vans/pop-ups  that will comfortably come in under that (2500Kg) particularly if Ensuites (not always essential)  etc. are not on the "most wanted " list.  The Tow vehicle has got to match your "life style" legally. (You do not buy F150 or a DMax if you want to tow a "triple Road Train ....")  It is essential to get the Priorities right and then match it up to be  Legal - generally means that you have to spend more or be happy with less !   KB

KJB wrote:

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yobarr wrote:

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Are We Lost wrote:

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Wow, just following on from what Yobarr pointed out, that low rear axle load of 1470kg would make it unsuitable for towing most of the popular mid to large vans. Yobar said 2800-2900 tops. I can't see how that would be viable.

With Tare of 2100, add two people, fuel and a toothbrush, so around 2300kg. Without knowing the actual front/rear axle loadings of the Touareg we can only make assumptions, but I suspect it's load carrying capacity would be severely limiting the towing capability. The main contributor to this is the leverage effect when the towball is attached. If the towball is 200kg, that puts around 300kg on the rear axle. Is there any spare capacity left to put anything else in the Touareg?

Then, if you care about the laden weight of the tow vehicle being more than what you are towing, maybe that has aleady been set.

Buzz, do you have weighbridge figures or specs that show the actual front and rear weights on the Touareg? Just looking at the design, my guess would be roughly equal at Tare.

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 OK, I've now done a bit more research, and it seems that the Touareg has over 1000kg on its rear axle at tare. This being the case, to that 1000kg we add the 400kg applied by a 280kg towball weight, 80kg for fuel, 75kg for passengers (half of the 150kg because about half of their weight will be carried by the front axle) 30kg for towbar structure (conservative!) and we're already up well over 1500kg, BUT we still have no luggage, no tools, no spares. And apparently no hope. Seems that if safety is of any concern you're not going to be able to tow much more than about 2500kg as a PIG trailer, which is coincidentally the weight that Vince says he was towing when his vehicle was "a bit unsettled in crosswinds". These figures are a bit of an eye-opener,  which if they are correct, shows that not all that glitters is gold? Pity, as they're great cars. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 17th of May 2022 04:31:45 PM

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 We have to remember that there are plenty of 'vans/pop-ups  that will comfortably come in under that (2500Kg) particularly if Ensuites (not always essential)  etc. are not on the "most wanted " list.  The Tow vehicle has got to match your "life style" legally. (You do not buy F150 or a DMax if you want to tow a "triple Road Train ....")  It is essential to get the Priorities right and then match it up to be  Legal - generally means that you have to spend more or be happy with less !   KB

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 Great post Kerry, with some good points. It saddens me to see so many people who have either been misled or confused by glossy sales brochures and salesmen, or have failed to know the right questions to ask. As a start, the sooner we see the enactment of a law that makes it illegal for the weight on the wheels of a towed vehicle to be greater than the weight on the wheels of the towing vehicle, the better. Might not stop people who dispute, or simply don't understand physics, and run around with low weights on their towball,, but it certainly would help to minimise the chances of the "Tail wagging the Dog" which is a too-common common occurrence with caravans. It's all about yaw, but we won't go there just now! Cheers

keninnsw wrote:

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Can anyone advise if the Merc or VW are a suitable tow vehicle

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 Do not overlook Audi and Porsche Cayenne ( there can be some S/H "bargains" ) - similar underpinnings as   VW .....excellent Diesel motors...

In an effort to help those who may have a limited understanding of simple physics  I have posted these articles from the internet. Anybody can find these articles for their own peace (piece?) of mind.  It can clearly be seen that it is foolish to use many of the current crop of twin-cabs to tow 3500kg ATM vans. The Caravan Council of Australia, whose attributes are regularly mentioned by respected forum member Possum1, clearly advise that a laden tow vehicle should weigh 30% more than the laden van that it is towing. This stance is supported by other companies with no vested interest in peddling lightweight vehicles to unsuspecting purchasers, or pushing devices designed to make cars do things that they never were designed to do. Many times I have posted about the importance of ALWAYS making sure that the tow vehicle (car) is heavier than the PIG trailer (caravan) that it is towing, but I usually suggest the car be 10% heavier. This,however,  is a minimum, with 30% being ideal. For those who have any interest in learning about towing safely you might like to access RV books written by Collyn Rivers, a well-respected expert on weights and dynamics with over 60 years experience in this field. There also is an article which explains why some cars can not always carry 10% towball weight, and why some prohibit the use of a WDH. Then you get others who recommend the use of a WDH simply to get weight off their lightweight rear axles, but little mention of the problems a WDH can cause. Think "oversteer" and "exceeding ATM" for starters. Cheers