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Post Info TOPIC: When do you need to disengage Weight Distribution Hitches


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RE: When do you need to disengage Weight Distribution Hitches
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Izabarack wrote:
Rob Driver wrote:

The vehicle manufacturers recommendation should be paramount in that decision. Their recommendation is based on your safety.  


 The cynical few might be inclined to argue that the manufacturer's recommendation is intended to protect them from liability.

Regards the thread question, I have never needed to make up for a poor Vehicle/ trailer weight ratio and ensure efficient weight distribution in my van so have never used s WDH.   I can imagine that any situation that would created a large angle between tug and trailer, such as would happen towing through a large ditch, would put huge stress on the WDH components and require easing of the tensions created by the pulling the chains up tight.


Good post Iza,which shows that you have a good understanding of WDHs. Many don't,and act like sheep.Many times I have said that the reason some manufacturers recommend a WDH is simply that their vehicles have too low a rear axle carrying capacity,and the only way that they can get the car anywhere near legal,or safe,to tow the loads they claim to be able to tow,is to get weight off that axle. Many members seem not to have any idea of the stresses imposed on the cars chassis,the van's chassis,or the actual components of the WDH. Like you,I have no need for a WDH because I bought a suitable car,and I load the van appropriately. With my car I run at 6800kg GCM,legal on every axle,with 1350kg on the steer,2300kg on the drive,and 3150kg on the van's wheels. Easy stuff! People waffle on about weight on the front axle being important for "braking,steering and safety",but do not realise that in Canada,for example, many trucks have no brakes on the front wheels so that steering is maintained in slippery snow conditions. Forget the cure-all WDH and buy a suitable tow vehicle.Simple stuff really.Cheers



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jegog wrote:

With leaf springs I thought that airbag were added and the leaf springs remained and so in reality the load would be spread over three chassis points instead of two. Adding air bags is just increasing the suspension load capacity.


 Airbags do nothing but lift the car and van so the whole unit looks pretty! There is NO transfer of weight from anywhere to anywhere,but the unit is levelled. Airbags should NEVER be used on leaf-sprung vehicles because the airbag imposes force on an area of the chassis that is not designed to carry weight,although some people seem to use them,but with very low pressures.Cheers

P.S If you care to Google something like "Do airbags increase load carrying capacity",or similar,you will discover the sad truth.Cheers

 

04393503-EC47-495A-B263-B35D4DABC980.jpeg

 



-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 24th of February 2022 10:04:59 PM

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Just watched John Cadogan's new vid on WDH. He also said the tow vehicle is more important than what you are towing, you have to get that right first. He suggested instead of spending well north of 100,000 on a landcruiser 200 or 300 (which weigh more than a dodge ram) just buy a brand new Hino or Canter cab chassis for 80,000, problem solved.

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peter67 wrote:

Just watched John Cadogan's new vid on WDH. He also said the tow vehicle is more important than what you are towing, you have to get that right first. He suggested instead of spending well north of 100,000 on a landcruiser 200 or 300 (which weigh more than a dodge ram) just buy a brand new Hino or Canter cab chassis for 80,000, problem solved.


 Agreed,but deary deary me,how would the poor souls who tow with LC200s look in a Hino or a Canter? Many may not realise that the LC300 is even less capable than is the 200.Forget the Ram 1500 too if you wish to tow much more than about 3000kg as a PIG trailer. Cheers

P.S How do you think a Canter or Hino would handle this relatively mild offroad exercise? And when the going got really tough,the 79 would be the only one going! Cheers

ABAAAF99-B94C-41C6-862B-7AF1950D6AA0.jpeg



-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 25th of February 2022 09:58:05 PM

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Just buy a small truck. Far, far superior. Manufacturers don't recommend upgrades either. So no point in those. Just trying to make a car do what it wasn't designed to do.

But some do recommend a WDH. ;)

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yobarr wrote:
peter67 wrote:

Just watched John Cadogan's new vid on WDH. He also said the tow vehicle is more important than what you are towing, you have to get that right first. He suggested instead of spending well north of 100,000 on a landcruiser 200 or 300 (which weigh more than a dodge ram) just buy a brand new Hino or Canter cab chassis for 80,000, problem solved.


 Agreed,but deary deary me,how would the poor souls who tow with LC200s look in a Hino or a Canter? Many may not realise that the LC300 is even less capable than is the 200.Forget the Ram 1500 too if you wish to tow much more than about 3000kg as a PIG trailer. Cheers

 


 So if you want comfort and power and are happy to tow around 3,000kg .........get a LC200 series.

So if you want to tow 3,500kg and don't mind bouncing around in a wheelbarrow that can carry the weight........get a 79 series.

No argument there Yobarr eh? No WDH, no dog trailer just a better ride all round.

Cheers Bob



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Bobdown wrote:
yobarr wrote:
peter67 wrote:

Just watched John Cadogan's new vid on WDH. He also said the tow vehicle is more important than what you are towing, you have to get that right first. He suggested instead of spending well north of 100,000 on a landcruiser 200 or 300 (which weigh more than a dodge ram) just buy a brand new Hino or Canter cab chassis for 80,000, problem solved.


 Agreed,but deary deary me,how would the poor souls who tow with LC200s look in a Hino or a Canter? Many may not realise that the LC300 is even less capable than is the 200.Forget the Ram 1500 too if you wish to tow much more than about 3000kg as a PIG trailer. Cheers

 


 So if you want comfort and power and are happy to tow around 3,000kg .. get a LC200 series.

So if you want to tow 3,500kg and don't mind bouncing around in a wheelbarrow that can carry the weight....... get a 79 series.

No argument there Yobarr eh? No WDH, no dog trailer just a better ride all round.

Cheers Bob


 Great to see that you understand the situation,Bob,as evidenced by the highlighted text above,but since 99% of caravans are PIG trailers,I don't understand your reference to a dog trailer? The severe towing limitations of the LC200 series are understood by few,so you are to be applauded. Cheers



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yobarr wrote:

 


 So if you want comfort and power and are happy to tow around 3,000kg .. get a LC200 series.

So if you want to tow 3,500kg and don't mind bouncing around in a wheelbarrow that can carry the weight....... get a 79 series.

No argument there Yobarr eh? No WDH, no dog trailer just a better ride all round.

Cheers Bob


 Great to see that you understand the situation,Bob,as evidenced by the highlighted text above,but since 99% of caravans are PIG trailers,I don't understand your reference to a dog trailer? The severe towing limitations of the LC200 series are understood by few,so you are to be applauded. Cheers


Agreed,but deary deary me,how would the poor souls who tow with LC200s look in a Hino or a Canter? Many may not realise that the LC300 is even less capable than is the 200.Forget the Ram 1500 too if you wish to tow much more than about 3000kg as a PIG trailer. Cheers

 

I was being sarcastic Chris, my point is that if you want a more comfortable ride get a LC200 over a 79 series. The 200 Cruiser probably outnumbers all other tow vehicles in Australia, and beats most for safety, comfort and ride.

Not everyone has a very heavy van and needs to carry 900 kg in the back of a ute that rides like a camel.

Your choice, as is my choice of vehicle.

cheers Bob



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LC, with upgrade towing 3.5t.
This will be the ride you get.

 

Screenshot_20220225-230226_DuckDuckGo.jpg

 

Better to buy a smaller van or buy a truck.

 

Cheers. ;)



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Puzzles me how so many seem to have travelled thousands of kilometres in an LC79,so are thus able to offer an "opinion" on its ride. An LC79 doesn't need a suspension upgrade to safely tow 3500kg,but simply combining the factory  axle of 1480kg (front) and 2300kg (rear) allows owners to safely run at 6800kg GCM. Having spent a large part of my life driving trucks,I don't even notice any problem with the ride,but the EFS shocks may be the reason for that? The LC200 is indeed a powerful, comfortable car which I did try,but it failed the "tough test" of safely towing 3500kg,so I bought the 79 instead. The claim that the LC200 probably outnumbers all other tow vehicles in Australia probably is true,which simply shows the sheep mentality of so many. Keeping up with the Jones' comes to mind,and the LC200 is indeed a fine car. BUT,because of the lightweight rear axle, don't ever think that you can safely tow much more than about 3000kg with one,certainly not 3500kg. Cheers

P.S Nice picture of Triton.



-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 26th of February 2022 07:42:31 AM

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Get some new glasses. It's a Toysh1ta.



-- Edited by oldbloke on Saturday 26th of February 2022 09:52:41 AM



-- Edited by oldbloke on Saturday 26th of February 2022 09:53:08 AM

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ThisisaTriton.FantasticperforanceatagreatpriceunlikeToysh1ta.Cheers.:)

 

Triton snow.jpg

 



-- Edited by oldbloke on Saturday 26th of February 2022 09:53:56 AM

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oldbloke wrote:

Get some new glasses. It's a Toysh1ta.

Funny I thought it was a Triton as well ............

untitled.png

 



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yobarr wrote:

Puzzles me how so many seem to have travelled thousands of kilometres in an LC79,so are thus able to offer an "opinion" on its ride. An LC79 doesn't need a suspension upgrade to safely tow 3500kg,but simply combining the factory  axle of 1480kg (front) and 2300kg (rear) allows owners to safely run at 6800kg GCM. Having spent a large part of my life driving trucks,I don't even notice any problem with the ride,but the EFS shocks may be the reason for that? The LC200 is indeed a powerful, comfortable car which I did try,but it failed the "tough test" of safely towing 3500kg,so I bought the 79 instead. The claim that the LC200 probably outnumbers all other tow vehicles in Australia probably is true,which simply shows the sheep mentality of so many. Keeping up with the Jones' comes to mind,and the LC200 is indeed a fine car. BUT,because of the lightweight rear axle, don't ever think that you can safely tow much more than about 3000kg with one,certainly not 3500kg. Cheers

P.S Nice picture of Triton.


 I have in fact done many km's in a LC79, towing an excavator for work...........like I said rides like a camel.  disbelief



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Bobdown wrote:
yobarr wrote:

Puzzles me how so many seem to have travelled thousands of kilometres in an LC79,so are thus able to offer an "opinion" on its ride. An LC79 doesn't need a suspension upgrade to safely tow 3500kg,but simply combining the factory  axle of 1480kg (front) and 2300kg (rear) allows owners to safely run at 6800kg GCM. Having spent a large part of my life driving trucks,I don't even notice any problem with the ride,but the EFS shocks may be the reason for that? The LC200 is indeed a powerful, comfortable car which I did try,but it failed the "tough test" of safely towing 3500kg,so I bought the 79 instead. The claim that the LC200 probably outnumbers all other tow vehicles in Australia probably is true,which simply shows the sheep mentality of so many. Keeping up with the Jones' comes to mind,and the LC200 is indeed a fine car. BUT,because of the lightweight rear axle, don't ever think that you can safely tow much more than about 3000kg with one,certainly not 3500kg. Cheers

P.S Nice picture of Triton.


 I have in fact done many km's in a LC79, towing an excavator for work...........like I said rides like a camel.  disbelief


 Hi Bob. Great that you have recognised  the superior towing abilities of the LC79. Can't agree that it "rides like a camel", as I am comfortable in mine, but I guess it's horses for  courses. Cheers.



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oldbloke wrote:

Get some new glasses. It's a Toysh1ta.



-- Edited by oldbloke on Saturday 26th of February 2022 09:52:41 AM



-- Edited by oldbloke on Saturday 26th of February 2022 09:53:08 AM


 When in doubt,and unable to follow a discussion,you always can attempt to save face by throwing in a Red Herring. Fortunately,my eyesight is 20/20 and I do not need glasses. Cheers.



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yobarr wrote:

Puzzles me how so many seem to have travelled thousands of kilometres in an LC79,so are thus able to offer an "opinion" on its ride. An LC79 doesn't need a suspension upgrade to safely tow 3500kg,but simply combining the factory  axle of 1480kg (front) and 2300kg (rear) allows owners to safely run at 6800kg GCM. Having spent a large part of my life driving trucks,I don't even notice any problem with the ride,but the EFS shocks may be the reason for that? The LC200 is indeed a powerful, comfortable car which I did try,but it failed the "tough test" of safely towing 3500kg,so I bought the 79 instead. The claim that the LC200 probably outnumbers all other tow vehicles in Australia probably is true,which simply shows the sheep mentality of so many. Keeping up with the Jones' comes to mind,and the LC200 is indeed a fine car. BUT,because of the lightweight rear axle, don't ever think that you can safely tow much more than about 3000kg with one,certainly not 3500kg. Cheers

P.S Nice picture of Triton.



-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 26th of February 2022 07:42:31 AM


 Not sure what the above has to do with,

 

When do you need to disengage Weight Distribution Hitches

 

 


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I see that my 2019 Triton requires weight distribution when towing, so I'm researching a new vehicle.
In the new 2022/23 Ford Ranger that say
"Vehicles should be weighed before adding additional load, accessories or towing a trailer to ensure the maximum Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) and Gross Combined Mass (GCM) are not exceeded. On variants where both a 6-speed manual and 6-speed auto are available, the 6-speed auto typically is 17-18kg heavier than manual, which then reduces the payload by 17-18kg. 3. Subject to State and Territory regulations. Payload is defined as the Gross Vehicle Mass minus the kerb mass. Payload is the maximum combined value of occupants, cargo, added options, added structures and tow ball download (when towing). GVM must not be exceeded. 4. Maximum braked towing capacity when fitted with a genuine Ford Tow Pack. Subject to State and Territory regulations. Further weight restrictions apply, please consult your authorised Ford Dealer and/or refer to the Owners Manual for guidance."
So no requirement for a WDH mentioned.
Also ARB will be providing Ford approved products designed with Ford input which can be ordered and installed prior to delivery and are covered by the Ford Warranty.

If the Ford Tow Pack does not include a WDH then it is not required.



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Rob Driver wrote:

Good morning Mr Yobarr,

I have stated on at least a few occasions that I no longer wish to participate in any debates with you regarding weight measures and towing requirements.

The vehicle manufacturers recommendations are what owners and potential operators that are intending to tow, should be heeding.
They designed the vehicle.

I will say no more.


 Cmon Rob, we miss those old *punch ups* biggrin

I disconnect my WDH when I am manovering onto a tight van site or when I am backing it in to its parking spot at home and when I am unhooking the van.

I dont drive on dirt or rough tracks but if I did I would assess the situation and disconnect if I thought it was necessary. I would probably go on the side of caution and disconnect if I did not know what was ahead on an off-road situation.

 



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From jegog

*If the Ford Tow Pack does not include a WDH then it is not required.*

You may want to assess that when you have your van hooked up to your new Ranger.

The Ford Tow Pack and its contents might be based more on keeping the *Tow Pak* at an affordable price than ensuring the weight imposed on the tow bar from behind the rear axle is not removing weight from the steering so as to make brakes and steering ability on that axle to be rendered dangerous.

If the dealer is adamant that you dont need one then ask them to hook your van to a demo Ranger and then check the specs on a weighbridge.

Be sure to include Tow Ball Weight as well as all the axles. It may be better to find out before you purchase the new vehicle.

Or if they wont do that then, at the very least, hook your van to the demo and measure the height difference when connected as opposed to the vehicles unladen or unhooked height. This will go a long way to eliminate any surprises and purchase regret down the track.



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Just had a thought.
The tow bar and WDH would need to be included in the tow ball weight. If not the tow bar then the hitch needs to be included, yet none of the videos I have seen mention removing the hitch when measuring and calculating weights.
Or am I barking up the wrong tree?


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jegog wrote:

Just had a thought.
The tow bar and WDH would need to be included in the tow ball weight. If not the tow bar then the hitch needs to be included, yet none of the videos I have seen mention removing the hitch when measuring and calculating weights.
Or am I barking up the wrong tree?


When you go over a weigh bridge its all weighed then. But the WDH hitch (if thats what you mean)  will be part of the tug.

Best to load van and tug up as per normal holiday. With water tanks empty or full. Not half full.

GeeIhopeIgotthatright.Otherwisesomeexspertwilltellmeoff. wink

 

Perhapstheexspertsherewillprovideyouwithaneasytofollowprocedureforgoingovertheweighbridge.

 



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jegog wrote:

Just had a thought.
The tow bar and WDH would need to be included in the tow ball weight. If not the tow bar then the hitch needs to be included, yet none of the videos I have seen mention removing the hitch when measuring and calculating weights.
Or am I barking up the wrong tree?


Hi Dennis. If I get time,later today I will post details of how to calculate your weights. Bit busy at moment driving Road Train,carting Gold ore! Cheers 




-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 26th of February 2022 05:23:33 PM

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Perhapstheexspertsherewillprovideeveryoneontheforumwithaneasytofollowprocedureforgoingovertheweighbridge



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oldbloke wrote:


Perhapstheexspertsherewillprovideeveryoneontheforumwithaneasytofollowprocedureforgoingovertheweighbridge


 Pathetic. Seems there are slow learners among us,because I have previously posted the procedure,several times. Long day on the 160 ton Road Train,and another couple of weeks ahead with long hours involved. Not really interested in working,but experienced truck drivers are desperately required here,so I am doing my bit to help. When I get a spare half hour,I will again post the procedure,but Dennis needs to be aware that neither a weighbridge,nor "towball weight scales" are of much use when checking towball weight,the first because of weighing only in 20kg increments,and the second because they are so inaccurate that it is a joke. It would be a great help if Dennis could advise what car he has,and his TBO (towball overhang, or distance from rear axle to hitchpoint),and I'll do the rest! Cheers



-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 27th of February 2022 07:46:17 AM

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OMG!

Give it a rest Yobbah. After 17 comments from you in this thread we are all over it.



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Dougwe wrote:

OMG!

Give it a rest Yobbah. After 17 comments from you in this thread we are all over it.


 Sorry that my contributions are of concern to you Doug. Simple solution is to ignore my posts,as I do with a couple of members. Always I try to supply information that is helpful to others, but you may have noticed that another member has posted a dozen or so times,with absolutely nothing intelligent contributed? Cheers



-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 26th of February 2022 11:00:28 PM

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yobarr wrote:
Dougwe wrote:

OMG!

Give it a rest Yobbah. After 17 comments from you in this thread we are all over it.


 Sorry that my contributions are of concern to you Doug. Simple solution is to ignore my posts,as I do with a couple of members. Always I try to supply information that is helpful to others, but you may have noticed that another member has posted a dozen or so times,with absolutely nothing intelligent contributed? Cheers



-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 26th of February 2022 11:00:28 PM


 PleaseYobarr,couldyoujustposttheweighbridgeprocedure.TheOPiswaitingforyouprofessionalassistancewiththisimportantprocedure.Cheers:)

P.S.I'msureothermembersarekeentolearnfromyoualso.:)



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yobarr wrote:
P.S How do you think a Canter or Hino would handle this relatively mild offroad exercise? And when the going got really tough,the 79 would be the only one going! 

 https://youtu.be/5ebPmqkHVXc

Cheers,

Peter



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Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
yobarr wrote:
P.S How do you think a Canter or Hino would handle this relatively mild offroad exercise? And when the going got really tough,the 79 would be the only one going! 

 https://youtu.be/5ebPmqkHVXc

Cheers,

Peter


 Lol. Great footage there Peter. Well done.

 

Triton does it easy too. :) cheers



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