Car makers say government policy blocks supply

Bicyclecamper · Guru

Electric Car Price

Wanda · Guru

I may be wrong, but, I think you will get more like 10yrs plus out of the battey, with a little luck.
We had a 2007 prius which we sold in 2019, so 12yr old battey, still going strong.
I can't see how the latest batteries would get less than this!
I think you will find the prices of these vehicles are "about" to start dropping, especially as more makes and models are coming out, just give it some time.
Maybe a change of government will see some positive changes as well
Ian

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

For the USA...

For electric vehicles, the federal government mandates that manufacturers issue the battery warranty at a minimum of eight years/80,000 miles. In California, that mandate is 10 years/150,000 miles. 1 A few vehicles even offer unlimited-mile coverage on their batteries.

That is longer than the warranty on your ICE engine, and it will be cheaper to replace.

Once volumes get higher, EV cars will be cheaper to make and buy than ICE cars, running costs will be a VERY much lower and there will be almost no maintenence required.

What is not to like?

It amases me that there are so meny people trying to find the negatives. The fact it, there are not many.

Cheers,

Peter

elliemike · Guru

I suppose the conversations about the transition from Sailing ships to Steamships, was simmilar.

There is no Coal in other parts of the World.

They break down a lot.

The boilers Blow up.

They run out of coal and have to still use sails.

How will you get spare parts up the Amazon.

Simmilar

The Automobile was a danger on the roads as they caused havoc and terrified horses. Make a man walk in front with a Red Flag to warn Carters and Coachmen.

But I still love sailing ships and have been a marine engineer. How ships have changed since I was last at sea. Also I am hoping to own a EV car in the near future.

It's Progress.

-- Edited by elliemike on Tuesday 15th of February 2022 09:05:24 PM

Phlipper · Senior Member

Yes expensive for a decent sized EV at present. However, there does seem to be a lot of ICE vehicles on the road now that are into the $70,000 +++ price bracket, European cars and 4WDs dont come cheap.. Prices will drop as more manufacturers build them and competition will drive the prices down.

Something that will tow a caravan/boat may be price prohibitive for a while to come, although as things are, the price of a new Land Cruiser is eye watering at present, and way out of price range for most folk. I dont think there will be much choice in about 10 yrs time, and our Diesel cars may be hard to sell in 10 yrs, possibly worth nothing ?.

Concerning EV running costs overall.....you will save a lot on motor and transmission servicing, escalating fuel prices, filters, timing belts, exhaust replacements, even brake pads etc. A mate of mine just replaced his Prius battery pack after 15yrs, cost him about $1,600.00

Personally I'm rather thinking I'll hang onto my new MU-X for 10 yrs if possible, and by that time I probably wont be caravaning anymore anyway, so an EV would likely be my choice to see me through into my grave....or at least until I become a Barfly

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Good luck towing with EV ! I have a suspicion vehicle manufacturers are holding prices higher to sell piston engines

Whenarewethere · Guru

Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Good luck towing with EV ! I have a suspicion vehicle manufacturers are holding prices higher to sell piston engines

Towing with EV isn't an issue.

BHP has ordered battery locomotives to tow 270 car 38,000 tonne iron ore sets.

Rio Tinto & Fortescue Metals Group likewise.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Last I checked EV is not a locomotive !

Whenarewethere · Guru

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle

'EVs include, but are not limited to, road and rail vehicles, surface and underwater vessels, electric aircraft and electric spacecraft.'

landy · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:

Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Good luck towing with EV ! I have a suspicion vehicle manufacturers are holding prices higher to sell piston engines
Towing with EV isn't an issue.
BHP has ordered battery locomotives to tow 270 car 38,000 tonne iron ore sets.
Rio Tinto & Fortescue Metals Group likewise.

Towing a camper trailer across the Simpson may be.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Long range vehicles (including RVs and locomotives, ships and planes) will be able to use hydrogen which is converted to electricity as it is required.
www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-02/australian-first-hydrogen-bus-emerald-coaches-regional-qld/100586162
This company in Queensland will use solar electricity to make their own hydrogen to fuel their bus fleet. They will take 10 minutes to refuel and have a range of 800km (which is enough to cross the Simpson).
Cheers,
Peter

86GTS · Guru

Not an issue worth worrying about really, by the time it happens we'll all be either in a nursing home or six feet underground. My traveling days will be over some time in the next decade.

Enjoy your piston engines now & in the near future.

EV's are the future, no doubt about it.

-- Edited by 86GTS on Wednesday 16th of February 2022 04:38:14 AM

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Wanda wrote:
I may be wrong, but, I think you will get more like 10yrs plus out of the battey, with a little luck.
We had a 2007 prius which we sold in 2019, so 12yr old battey, still going strong.
I can't see how the latest batteries would get less than this!
I think you will find the prices of these vehicles are "about" to start dropping, especially as more makes and models are coming out, just give it some time.
Maybe a change of government will see some positive changes as well
Ian

We need some decent Federal Government policies on emissions before the overseas manufacturers see Australia as a market to sell EVs rather than dump ICE vehicles here. Until then, we won't have much of a choice and hence $70k could be the expected cost.

Wanda · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Wanda wrote:
I may be wrong, but, I think you will get more like 10yrs plus out of the battey, with a little luck.
We had a 2007 prius which we sold in 2019, so 12yr old battey, still going strong.
I can't see how the latest batteries would get less than this!
I think you will find the prices of these vehicles are "about" to start dropping, especially as more makes and models are coming out, just give it some time.
Maybe a change of government will see some positive changes as well
Ian
We need some decent Federal Government policies on emissions before the overseas manufacturers see Australia as a market to sell EVs rather than dump ICE vehicles here. Until then, we won't have much of a choice and hence $70k could be the expected cost.

Absobloodylutely, but won't get it from this mob

Ian biggrin

HandyWalter · Senior Member

I accept that EV will take off eventually and the ICE will slowly die off. But the government raises huge taxes from fuel excise. The electricity grid will have to expand rapidly to accommodate. I just wonder how the Gov will raise the lost revenue? Tax on distance traveled as in Vic? Increases in electricity tariffs? I am sure any tax on a Green car will raise issues with the left leaning in politics. ATM in Vic not enough people have EV's but when they do I am sure they will be very angry being charged each year on distances travelled and being charged on early basis as it is now I think. At least with fuel taxes we just "pay as we go" so we really have no idea how much we are being taxed in a year

Wanda · Guru

HandyWalter wrote:
I accept that EV will take off eventually and the ICE will slowly die off. But the government raises huge taxes from fuel excise. The electricity grid will have to expand rapidly to accommodate. I just wonder how the Gov will raise the lost revenue? Tax on distance traveled as in Vic? Increases in electricity tariffs? I am sure any tax on a Green car will raise issues with the left leaning in politics. ATM in Vic not enough people have EV's but when they do I am sure they will be very angry being charged each year on distances travelled and being charged on early basis as it is now I think. At least with fuel taxes we just "pay as we go" so we really have no idea how much we are being taxed in a year

Yep, have to agree, the money is going to have to come from somewhere. Thats us, in some form of ev tax or tax on kms or who knows what!!

Not for the option of paying each year for the distance travelled, especially in Autralia, that could and would impact on tourism for sure

I don't necessarily think its going to save us money, the owners of evs, but just the knowledge that we are doing something for the enviroment!.

Also some gratification that we are not giving money to the hungry oil companies/countries. biggrin

Ian

deverall11 · Guru

Need to lobby the village idiot and his mates to make these cars more affordable. Cash incentives similar
to some countries in Europe.

elliemike · Guru

deverall11 wrote:
Need to lobby the village idiot and his mates to make these cars more affordable. Cash incentives similar
to some countries in Europe.

Car makers say government policy blocks supply

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-04-20/australians-want-to-buy-electric-cars-what-is-stopping-us/100071550

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Wanda wrote:
HandyWalter wrote:
I accept that EV will take off eventually and the ICE will slowly die off. But the government raises huge taxes from fuel excise. The electricity grid will have to expand rapidly to accommodate. I just wonder how the Gov will raise the lost revenue? Tax on distance traveled as in Vic? Increases in electricity tariffs? I am sure any tax on a Green car will raise issues with the left leaning in politics. ATM in Vic not enough people have EV's but when they do I am sure they will be very angry being charged each year on distances travelled and being charged on early basis as it is now I think. At least with fuel taxes we just "pay as we go" so we really have no idea how much we are being taxed in a year
Yep, have to agree, the money is going to have to come from somewhere. Thats us, in some form of ev tax or tax on kms or who knows what!!
Not for the option of paying each year for the distance travelled, especially in Autralia, that could and would impact on tourism for sure
I don't necessarily think its going to save us money, the owners of evs, but just the knowledge that we are doing something for the enviroment!.
Also some gratification that we are not giving money to the hungry oil companies/countries.
Ian

The fuel tax is a federal tax and some states are now imposing EV taxes. The states and territories are not missing out on anything but they are using the EVs as an excuse to get more money from taxes. That is really disgusting

I don't know where the so called missing revenue of the federal fuel tax would come from. I wouldn't lower myself to become a politician. I'm adverse to lying. However, if the government stopped subsiding the fossil fuel industries then there'd be billions of dollars that could be spent on subsiding climate change initiatives.

There is no indication that the fuel tax revenue is spent on road infrastructure so taking the subsidies away from the fossil fuel industries may easily replace the fuel tax. Maybe there is no issue.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

elliemike wrote:
deverall11 wrote:
Need to lobby the village idiot and his mates to make these cars more affordable. Cash incentives similar
to some countries in Europe.

Car makers say government policy blocks supply
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-04-20/australians-want-to-buy-electric-cars-what-is-stopping-us/100071550

Yes. This is what I was referring to. The federal government needs to have decent emissions policies before the EV manufacturers will even consider selling decently priced vehicles in Australia.

deverall11 · Guru

We are currently paying more at the pump because of the RUssian/Ukraine conflict. At least that's what we are told.
If we all had EVs, that would not be the case. Yes there probably would be something else but that's a discussion for another day.
Larry

peter67 · Guru

Given it produces 50% more emissions to produce an EV relative to ICE cars you would do more good driving your mums toyota camry for the next twenty years.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

peter67 wrote:
Given it produces 50% more emissions to produce an EV relative to ICE cars you would do more good driving your mums toyota camry for the next twenty years.

Who told you that crap? smile

Cheers,

Peter

Whenarewethere · Guru

Not to forget that to produce & transport a litre of petrol requires about 2kWh of energy before the engine uses it.

On average Australians drive 13,000km per year.

I'll use round numbers, 10L/100km, that's 2,600kWh just to make the petrol & get it to your fuel tank.

Then 8.9kWh per litre going up in smoke. That's 11,570kWh per year simply burning stuff. So 14,170kWh per year.

Plus 25,000kWh to make a petrol car.

So after driving your new petrol car 13,000km that's 39,100kWh.

There maybe more embedded energy in an EV but it is infinitely more recyclable.

deverall11 · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
........
There maybe more embedded energy in an EV but it is infinitely more recyclable.

Well said. If only more people realised this is the future like it or not. The quicker we embrace the better for all.

Bet they all against the ICE when it was about to replace the steam engine. Look where we are now.

peter67 · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
peter67 wrote:
Given it produces 50% more emissions to produce an EV relative to ICE cars you would do more good driving your mums toyota camry for the next twenty years.
Who told you that crap?
Cheers,
Peter

John Cadogan did a recent vid on it. Now, you can scoff at John if you like, some do, but watch it and then I dare you to come back on here and argue his figures and reasoning. Look forward to it.